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McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

going to disagree with you , governments primary duty is the protection of the people [meaning rights], as sited in the DOI, and by the father of the Constitution, James Madison.

James Madison-- "if men were angels no government would be necessary"--- but because men are not angels .......we have government.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Now you are getting more specific. You said protect law abiding citizens before, nothing about rights. Note, madison is implying that we don't want government, it is a bad thing, and we want as little government as possible.

As the DOI says, our rights don't come from government, they are God given. And there is no right to someone else's property, by definition that is no longer a right. So no, the government is not protecting rights when it is forcing someone to fork over money to someone else, it is taking rights.
 
Is your position that unless the Constitution explicitly states that Congress can enact a specific kind of law, that it can't? I didn't see anything in the Constitution about enacting a law that says school buses must stop at railroad tracks, like in the Schoolhouse Rock video. Is that unconstitutional? Was the creation of a minimum wage itself unconstitutional?

No, I don't think there is anything in there about school buses. But it does say they can make laws. You asked if they had power to make laws, and hot dang, they do! We don't really need the feds to make minimum wage laws, the states can do that.
 
Now you are getting more specific. You said protect law abiding citizens before, nothing about rights. Note, madison is implying that we don't want government, it is a bad thing, and we want as little government as possible.

As the DOI says, our rights don't come from government, they are God given. And there is no right to someone else's property, by definition that is no longer a right. So no, the government is not protecting rights when it is forcing someone to fork over money to someone else, it is taking rights.


governments are to protect our rights......they are not here to guide us, tell us what to do.............BUT they are taking our rights, and telling us what to do......unconstitutional

madison is saying that if all men acted like angels we would not need government, becuase all men would respect each others rights, and their would be no problems between men.........no government would be necessary......but becuase men do not respect rights, we have government.

as you stated rights dont come from government they are given to us by god, or a higher being, and becuase government does not give them, they have to power to take from the people.

you have a right to property, government taking your money and turning it over to other people is not constitutional, becuase it is not a delegated power of government.
 
There's been a lot of talk about strikes in the fast food industry. Who among you can blame them? They're only getting paid minimum wage? You call that some standard of living? Can anyone here honestly say the standard of living for the average employee of the fast food industry?

McDonalds makes a fortune in sales every day, but it treats its workers like lint. Would it go bankrupt over paying each employee, say, 10 bucks an hour? Do those employees deserve that money. Well they worked for it so they're entitled to it. It's their money, not McDonalds. McDonalds makes so much money it could be considered its own economy? Where did you get that fact?

Its not just McDonalds, whether you work and Taco Bell or Arbys, you can expect your wages to be VERY low. Will the wages go on strike if the minimum wage isn't rise? A rise man once said.

Personally I don't even blame for these workers for going on strike because 7 bucks is too low for minimum wage because there's lots of mandatory payments these days, like smartphone payments. Not only do people have bills, like utilities, electricity, water, vehicle, insurance, but there's also, like nice threads and looking good.

Finally there's the objectification issue because let's face it Wendys has not had a good track record lately when in comes to its portrayal of men lately. GUTS Headquarters' Jeffery Tolman found this interesting bit of concept art from Wendy's Cheeseburger Pretzel Burger commercial and posted it on Wendy's Facebook page. Take a look at this side by side comparison:

http://oi44.tinypic.com/t857vs.jpg

In the finished commercial, the actress playing Wendy is sitting on some sort of bean bag, but in the original conception, she is sitting on the back of a man, whose on his hands and knees. So men are suppose to be furniture?

Now I see fast food workers are striking.

these striking workers are being led to slaughter by their handlers
that striking worker can be replaced the same day (s)he strikes. just substitute another body who wants a low paying job
now, instead of a low paying job the striker has a no paying termination paper
how did (s)he help him/herself with that strike?

i am very sympathetic to those who feel the need to do something to increase their wages. anyone who works 40 hours a week should earn a sustainable wage
but to strike without benefit of a unionized bargaining unit is just ignorant foolishness
organize the bargaining unit first, THEN strike
one should always know where they stand before taking a stand
these folks are now in quicksand
 
No, I don't think there is anything in there about school buses. But it does say they can make laws. You asked if they had power to make laws, and hot dang, they do! We don't really need the feds to make minimum wage laws, the states can do that.

You asked where in the Constitution does it give Congress the right to pass laws addressing fairness (which I interpret broadly to mean laws that favor some people over others). Now you say they can pass laws but we don't need them to. So I guess I don't really understand your position. Do you simply mean to invoke States' Rights over these issues? States certainly can raise their minimum wages above the federal level, but I guess that's not what you favor.
 
You asked where in the Constitution does it give Congress the right to pass laws addressing fairness (which I interpret broadly to mean laws that favor some people over others). Now you say they can pass laws but we don't need them to. So I guess I don't really understand your position. Do you simply mean to invoke States' Rights over these issues? States certainly can raise their minimum wages above the federal level, but I guess that's not what you favor.

Let's not go skipping ahead. What do you mean by "fairness"? We all know about equal rights, I think everyone agrees that we all have the same rights. But that is not "fairness". Nobody here has said they can not pass minimum wage laws, but do we need them to? States can take care of that. If the people of Alabama want a $6 minimum and the people of Florida want a $10 minimum, that's fine.
 
Nobody here has said they can not pass minimum wage laws, but do we need them to? States can take care of that. If the people of Alabama want a $6 minimum and the people of Florida want a $10 minimum, that's fine.


I just wanted to see if we both agreed that Congress could pass laws as they saw fit, not whether they should. As for if they should, I've made my arguments elsewhere in this thread.

Indeed, cost of living in different states is radically different. But surely you don't mean Alabama should set the minimum wage at lower than the federal minimum wage, right? That would involve a dirty little thing called nullification that usually doesn't end well for the State. I assume you just mean that the Federal government would ideally not have set one, letting Alabama set it as low as they wanted, right?
 
Let's not go skipping ahead. What do you mean by "fairness"? We all know about equal rights, I think everyone agrees that we all have the same rights. But that is not "fairness". Nobody here has said they can not pass minimum wage laws, but do we need them to? States can take care of that. If the people of Alabama want a $6 minimum and the people of Florida want a $10 minimum, that's fine.

Reagan wanted to give blacks a different minimum wage than whites. If Alabama made minimum wage for blacks $0.50 an hour, what would your position be? Go to the 34 minute, 18 second mark and start from there. GOP - one wage for whites and much lower wage for blacks.

 
Reagan wanted to give blacks a different minimum wage than whites. If Alabama made minimum wage for blacks $0.50 an hour, what would your position be? Go to the 34 minute, 18 second mark and start from there. GOP - one wage for whites and much lower wage for blacks.



Wow. Just....wow. I don't know how he justified that position. That's amazing. I had no idea that he was that f***ed up. A segregated minimum wage??? That should really be in the history books. I just don't understand how that could have been possible to say and still get him elected.
 
these striking workers are being led to slaughter by their handlers
that striking worker can be replaced the same day (s)he strikes. just substitute another body who wants a low paying job
now, instead of a low paying job the striker has a no paying termination paper
how did (s)he help him/herself with that strike?

i am very sympathetic to those who feel the need to do something to increase their wages. anyone who works 40 hours a week should earn a sustainable wage
but to strike without benefit of a unionized bargaining unit is just ignorant foolishness
organize the bargaining unit first, THEN strike
one should always know where they stand before taking a stand
these folks are now in quicksand
True, but it would take a very big union to accommodate the vast majority of fast food workers wanting to strike, which I imagine is close to a million. To get that many people to agree on a wage or benefit they're seeking would be, difficult to say the least.
 
Reagan wanted to give blacks a different minimum wage than whites. If Alabama made minimum wage for blacks $0.50 an hour, what would your position be? Go to the 34 minute, 18 second mark and start from there. GOP - one wage for whites and much lower wage for blacks.

Another nonsense post from the nonsense factory. What you describe was not at all what RWR meant, and everyone knew it at the time. A "sub-minimum" wage to promote employment of young people and the inner city unemployed is an idea advanced many times over the years by both left and right. Your framing of the issue is dishonest.:peace
 
Reagan wanted to give blacks a different minimum wage than whites. If Alabama made minimum wage for blacks $0.50 an hour, what would your position be? Go to the 34 minute, 18 second mark and start from there. GOP - one wage for whites and much lower wage for blacks.

It's a different minimum wage for young people, not black people.
 
All of this fighting over jobs that were designed to introduce our nations young to the working world, being taken by adults with families that should be out there working in other jobs designed for them that are now non existent. Doesn't that big picture alone tell liberals that their policies are a failure?
 
Good morning all! :2wave:

Well, it's Labor Day, when we get to take the day off from labor! :werd: I sure hope they don't decide to make a Holiday called Lazy Day, when people will have to go to work! I can hear the grumbling now.... :lamo:
 
Is your position that unless the Constitution explicitly states that Congress can enact a specific kind of law, that it can't? I didn't see anything in the Constitution about enacting a law that says school buses must stop at railroad tracks, like in the Schoolhouse Rock video. Is that unconstitutional? Was the creation of a minimum wage itself unconstitutional?

yes, the constitution gives a list of powers the federal government is delegated article 1 section 8, any power which is not a delegated power is unconstitutional, however government is engaged in many unconstitutional acts...ie, housing education epa, and many more things are not in the constitution.

“[Congressional jurisdiction of power] is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any.” – James Madison, Federalist 14

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1798

“This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 83

school bus / local traffic laws, are not federal jurisdiction.

the minimum wage is unconstitutional, government has no authority to dictate to a person or business what they must pay....nothing in the constitution which places limits on people or business, our constitution was written for governments only.
 
the minimum wage is unconstitutional, government has no authority to dictate to a person or business what they must pay....nothing in the constitution which places limits on people or business, our constitution was written for governments only.

Nobody has really brought that up yet, but it's hard to disagree. It does seem like a power reserved for the states.
 
Another nonsense post from the nonsense factory. What you describe was not at all what RWR meant, and everyone knew it at the time. A "sub-minimum" wage to promote employment of young people and the inner city unemployed is an idea advanced many times over the years by both left and right. Your framing of the issue is dishonest.:peace

I find it incredible that anyone would try and push this. This is not some deep south former KKK candidate, this is Reagan. Elected with two tremedous landslide victories. He couldn't win one state with a proposal like that. Yet, there are people that don't question it for a second. That is the kind of low information voter that Obama depends on when he speaks.
 
I just wanted to see if we both agreed that Congress could pass laws as they saw fit, not whether they should. As for if they should, I've made my arguments elsewhere in this thread.

Indeed, cost of living in different states is radically different. But surely you don't mean Alabama should set the minimum wage at lower than the federal minimum wage, right? That would involve a dirty little thing called nullification that usually doesn't end well for the State. I assume you just mean that the Federal government would ideally not have set one, letting Alabama set it as low as they wanted, right?

I don't think we need the Feds to set a minimum wage. It should be up to the state. If a state did set it lower that the feds, then we would have a likely Supreme Court decision on whether or not the feds have the power to tell a state what the minimum wage is. But ideally, the feds wouldn't be involved.
 
McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

Do those employees deserve that money. Well they worked for it so they're entitled to it. It's their money, not McDonalds. McDonalds makes so much money it could be considered its own economy? Where did you get that fact?

And here lies the joke of your entire premise. You wonder why Republicans hate the left? It I that. Entitlement. Answer me honestly. Do you really think flipping a burger is worth $10 an hour? Are you kidding? Have you actually been in McDonalds?

It IS McDonald's money. McDonald's agrees to pay them $x for their services. If they don't agree with the amount McDonald's agrees to pay...they can find another job.

Personally I don't even blame for these workers for going on strike because 7 bucks is too low for minimum wage because there's lots of mandatory payments these days, like smartphone payments. Not only do people have bills, like utilities, electricity, water, vehicle, insurance, but there's also, like nice threads and looking good.

At what point did THOSE become mandatory? Are you going to die if you don't have a smartphone? As I read your comments I hope to God you are being sarcastic.

If you don't make a lot of money you should be buying a cheapo pay per minute non smart phone with no contract. You damn sure shouldn't be buying expensive clothes. But. I guess if you had any financial planning knowledge, the crap low wage you make at a McDonald's wouldn't be that big of a deal because you would be spending on getting a better job or opportunity.
 
McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123]

All of this fighting over jobs that were designed to introduce our nations young to the working world, being taken by adults with families that should be out there working in other jobs designed for them that are now non existent. Doesn't that big picture alone tell liberals that their policies are a failure?

You have to be able to take a hint to figure that out
 
Nobody has really brought that up yet, but it's hard to disagree. It does seem like a power reserved for the states.

its not even a power of the states, no government has the authority to tell a person how much he must pay another person.

commerce...... is the buying and selling of goods........it is not wages, and it is not even manufacturing.

if you an i agree that i will work for you for 5 bucks an hour, and both of us have agreed, what authority does government have to get involved in a contract between two people.
 
It's a different minimum wage for young people, not black people.

Wrong. Listen again. He said the young people were black and he wanted to give a lower wage to blacks so they would have a better shot at jobs.
 
Another nonsense post from the nonsense factory.

Another childish personal attack? You going to say something about my mother next? Or how your daddy can beat up my daddy? If nothing else, you are predictable.
 
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