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McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

I guess it depends on where you live. (Berg? I'm not familiar with this term.) When I tell employers that I have that degree, they seem quite indifferent; they want workers, not thinkers.
what that tells you is that you have reached out to the wrong prospective employers ... lots of firms need staff who understand math
'berg' is just a slang term for city, neighborhood, town, etc


True. I think American education is fraudulent in many ways. Partly, there is a lot of money in getting people to enroll in colleges, leading to a lot of the lying that leads people into thinking that a degree will magically get them a job.
unfortunately, this is not something new. many folks got rich after vietnam setting up 'colleges' to 'teach' out-processed GIs, eligible for the GI bill. they accepted their benefit money and gave them little in the way of a genuine education
which is why i am pleased to see Obama looking to index higher learning institutions based on the success of their graduates. those who do not have good records helping their graduates, should be ineligible to receive funds backed by the federal taxpayer. ditto for those who do not have much success in getting their students to the point of graduation

I admit that I got my degree for the wrong reasons, but I was young and had lots of convincing liars around me.
i feel you here. i chose an engineering school/degree only because i knew that is what would make my Dad the most pleased. not the worst reason ever but certainly not a wise one. with all the counselors we have in high schools these days, one would think our high school graduates would have a better understanding of their college prospects than they graduate with. in terms of both college success and career goals

But, I still say that "small business" is not the solution to all our problems; we can't all own businesses and have no employees.
i believe you need to give more thought to this. even the wage earner is selling his labor to his employer. almost extinct are the jobs where you can expect a retirement check at the conclusion of a career with the same organization. the reality is that most are now contracting themselves out for a period of time. as technology refreshens as an ever faster rate, so too do the jobs it makes possible and makes vanish. few who are reading this will end their working careers doing then what they are doing today. if you are a wage earner, you will quite possibly have a wide variety of job functions that you will have performed over your career. but the skill set required for most employees will be the ability to self market. this discussion itself demonstrates how essential it is for a job seeking employee to be able to not only posses the requisite skill set but to also be able to market that bundle of skills to prospective employers
in your generation, expect to be an entrepreneur, whether you are business owner or whether you are selling your job skills as a contract employee
so, acquire entrepreneurial skills now

Those are all essentially luck now;
no. being born into a rich family is luck
buying the right lottery ticket is luck

for everyone else, we have to make the best of our own opportunities. in a competitive world - no longer just a competitive nation - you must be able to have something compelling in your CV which causes employers to want to hire you from the vast pool of applicants


Having a degree isn't helping the majority of people that graduated in the last couple of years.
bull ****
my daughter graduated two years ago and now manages a medical practice. she earns a great salary, bonuses, works from home, works her own hours, and has access to vacation homes at the coast, in the mountains and in the immediate downtown of the major city in which she works
she is leaving that job at the end of the year to begin her own enterprise
my son is four years older and now earns $10,000 a week, plus expenses. he refused a full ride to college to pursue his own business. returned to school a year and a half later only because the people he ran around with were in college. realized he loved academics at that level. got his masters when his cohort received their bachelors
what i see that is different about these young adults? they are going for it. they know that the only person who can hold them back is them


There prospectives are based on whether they know the right guy and are in the right place at the right time, not whether they know the right stuff or have the right degree.
while the element of luck is always present, you also make your own luck by being positioned to exploit opportunities as they present themselves

98% of businesses fail, so that's also a pretty big risk. In modern America, wealth is almost entirely due to luck.
not true. i spent a quarter century dealing with small businesses. lending to them. managing their accounts. liquidating the failures. coaching those on the cusp to try to become successful. helping those with promise to become even more successful. the ones who were smart and hard working were the ones who succeeded. they also had to have the ability to persevere, because difficult hurdles were confronted by most. being smart and resourceful and hardworking allowed them to overcome those difficulties on their way to the brass ring

Even in my own business idea, I completely acknowledge the fact that I could lose everything even though I worked for it.
you could. but what is ever gained without risk. and i often encounter successful people who have experienced bankruptcy. they learned from it and had the motivation to refuse to allow that set back to end their pursuit of the American dream
allow me here to also make another observation. at the end of my career, probably 30% of the small business owners i was helping were legal immigrants. while a tiny portion of the nation's population, these folks comprised a disproportionate number of business entrepreneurs. and i speculate that is because they are risk takers. people who left their native country in order to have a chance at economic success in a land which provides just such an opportunity. i do wonder why native born Americans are so unable to see the prospects of opportunity in their own country that foreign born persons recognize

I agree, I wasn't lamenting for myself. I'm going to be fine, but what about the other millions of Americans who won't? I'm worried about my country.
my only concern for you and what you have expressed is whether your fear of failure will be an impediment to your opportunities for success
don't let it be so
 
They have as much chance of getting that from McDonald's as they do $15/hour to start, so why not?

Aim high, accept low.... if they can make enough noise at $15, and accept $9 to quiet down, some owners may play the game. :wink:
 
McDonald's hires 7,000 touch-screen cashiers | Crave - CNET

This is what you get when labor costs spike. It's being tested in Europe and coming soon to a fast food joint near you.

And you honestly don't think such new technology would ever be implemented otherwise? Were self checkout lanes implemented at grocery stores because all grocery store cashiers got some kind of across the board raise that spiked labor costs?
 
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Its common knowledge...you don't need any qualifications to have common sense.

If its common knowledge, it should be easy for you to back up what you are saying with some data. I'll wait.
 
Customers create jobs. Anyone actually running a business would know this.

How many customers is McDonalds going to have with $8 big macs?
 
How many customers is McDonalds going to have with $8 big macs?

How can we have a reasonable debate when people fabricate numbers as if they were McDonalds themselves and know the adjustments to be made? I live in Santa Fe where the miniumum wage is over $10/hour. And I'll bet our big macs are no more than they are where you are at and if they are, it wouldn't be massively skewed as you are saying would happen.
 
How can we have a reasonable debate when people fabricate numbers as if they were McDonalds themselves and know the adjustments to be made?

And you don't think that is what people are doing when they say McDonald's can afford to pay $15/hour?
 
And you don't think that is what people are doing when they say McDonald's can afford to pay $15/hour?

No. You have not one iota of ground to stand on when you say you know that big macs will be $8. In & Out burgers has a starting wage of $10.50/hour and are doing rather well for a fast food chain with their 16,000 employees.
 
No. You have not one iota of ground to stand on when you say you know that big macs will be $8. In & Out burgers has a starting wage of $10.50/hour and are doing rather well for a fast food chain with their 16,000 employees.

While I disagree that the primary draw of In & Out Burger, over McDonalds, is their product's price I applaud their success and ability to pay better wages. They are now what McDonald's was, way back then, a basic burger and fries joint that serves a limitted menu. I am disappointed that Subway has decided to expand their menu and operating hours, it has caused the price of their basic subs to have increased dramatically; I suspect, to cover the loses incurred by that expansion.
 
And you honestly don't think such new technology would ever be implemented otherwise? Were self checkout lanes implemented at grocery stores because all grocery store cashiers got some kind of across the board raise that spiked labor costs?

Honestly I don't know how the test will go in Europe. I know that no restaurant would work with no customer service personnel and with McDonalds expanding menu and increased complexity it will be interesting to see how well the automation works. A trade show I once went to had a robot flipping burgers.

It's important to note a couple things however. Lots of jobs at McD's are so simple that machines can easily do the work because the work is not at all technical. If someone is easily replaced by a machine, it behooves the business to make the substitution because the truth is while business depends on employees it's always the goal to do as much work with as few of them as possible.
 
While I disagree that the primary draw of In & Out Burger, over McDonalds, is their product's price I applaud their success and ability to pay better wages. They are now what McDonald's was, way back then, a basic burger and fries joint that serves a limitted menu. I am disappointed that Subway has decided to expand their menu and operating hours, it has caused the price of their basic subs to have increased dramatically; I suspect, to cover the loses incurred by that expansion.

Since I posted that I've been googling In-N-Out burger info and it's rather incredible. The woman who runs it is the youngest female billionaire and their wages are awesome as well as their business model. It is privately owned so no franchising and even though they don't expand overly fast they do expand and the conditions are neat... they have to be located near one of their distribution centers because no store has a microwave or freezer. So it's rather fresh. I like the simplicity too as you stated. The store managers of these tiny joints are pushing $100k to $150k/year averaging about 14 years of experience there.

There are none around here but I was in Phoenix when they expanded there and people lost their minds over it.
 
This is nothing but an attempt by organized labor to unionize fast-food workers. If it weren't? They'd be lobbying Washington instead of shutting down McDonald's outlets.

A McDonald's worker making minimum wage cannot go to Washington for a protest, let alone get face time with Senators to lobby anything. At best they can organize and stand with a picket sign in front of the McDonald's where they work for a week.
 
Honestly I don't know how the test will go in Europe. I know that no restaurant would work with no customer service personnel and with McDonalds expanding menu and increased complexity it will be interesting to see how well the automation works. A trade show I once went to had a robot flipping burgers.

It's important to note a couple things however. Lots of jobs at McD's are so simple that machines can easily do the work because the work is not at all technical. If someone is easily replaced by a machine, it behooves the business to make the substitution because the truth is while business depends on employees it's always the goal to do as much work with as few of them as possible.

It's true that such companies are always looking where they can cut but increasing wages won't expedite that. If the technology is there, they will implement it regardless. I know it would seem that their jobs are so simple that they can be automated without much effort but I seriously don't believe that. Machines can be very productive but they are terrible at adaptation and flipping burgers are a lot of production but also there is a high need for adaptation because it is a very service oriented business and customers are extremely finicky and change their minds a lot. Something that machines aren't very good with adapting to.

So the bottom line of my point is, machines can produce it but if they can't adapt fast to customer on the fly, they will produce a lot of waste for the company.
 
Since I posted that I've been googling In-N-Out burger info and it's rather incredible. The woman who runs it is the youngest female billionaire and their wages are awesome as well as their business model. It is privately owned so no franchising and even though they don't expand overly fast they do expand and the conditions are neat... they have to be located near one of their distribution centers because no store has a microwave or freezer. So it's rather fresh. I like the simplicity too as you stated. The store managers of these tiny joints are pushing $100k to $150k/year averaging about 14 years of experience there.

There are none around here but I was in Phoenix when they expanded there and people lost their minds over it.

I have never been to In-And-Out Burger, but if it's anything like Fuddruckers I can see why people love it. Fudd's is the best burgers in USA in my opinion. They even sell black angus filet burgers, ostrich burgers, buffalo burgers, and crocodile burgers now.
 
Since I posted that I've been googling In-N-Out burger info and it's rather incredible. The woman who runs it is the youngest female billionaire and their wages are awesome as well as their business model. It is privately owned so no franchising and even though they don't expand overly fast they do expand and the conditions are neat... they have to be located near one of their distribution centers because no store has a microwave or freezer. So it's rather fresh. I like the simplicity too as you stated. The store managers of these tiny joints are pushing $100k to $150k/year averaging about 14 years of experience there.

There are none around here but I was in Phoenix when they expanded there and people lost their minds over it.

The best part of that operation is that it took ZERO gov't action to compete with the "big boys" (McD's, KFC and BK). All it took was the brains and balls to do it. ;)
 
Since I posted that I've been googling In-N-Out burger info and it's rather incredible. The woman who runs it is the youngest female billionaire and their wages are awesome as well as their business model. It is privately owned so no franchising and even though they don't expand overly fast they do expand and the conditions are neat... they have to be located near one of their distribution centers because no store has a microwave or freezer. So it's rather fresh. I like the simplicity too as you stated. The store managers of these tiny joints are pushing $100k to $150k/year averaging about 14 years of experience there.

There are none around here but I was in Phoenix when they expanded there and people lost their minds over it.

The woman who runs it is a descendant of the founders so it's not surprising she's wealthy. The more unexpected aspect is that the family is quite religious.

In-N-Out prints discreet references to Bible verses on their paper containers. These consist of the book, chapter, and number of the verse, not the text of the passage, in small print on an inconspicuous area of the item. The practice began in the 1980s during Rich Snyder's presidency,[SUP][36][/SUP] a reflection of the Christian beliefs held by the Snyder family.:peace
 
I have never been to In-And-Out Burger, but if it's anything like Fuddruckers I can see why people love it. Fudd's is the best burgers in USA in my opinion. They even sell black angus filet burgers, ostrich burgers, buffalo burgers, and crocodile burgers now.

Nothing like Fuddruckers. They are geared for drive thru pick up and they have a tiny tiny menu. Not many choices at all so they focus on what they do and do it well. While the selection is limited, I'd imagine their product overhead is nominal by comparison to Fuddruckers... or any other restaurant for that matter.
 
No. You have not one iota of ground to stand on when you say you know that big macs will be $8. In & Out burgers has a starting wage of $10.50/hour and are doing rather well for a fast food chain with their 16,000 employees.

The Economist, partly tongue in cheek, calculates relative cost of living at different locations around the world via their "Big Mac Index," so the price does indeed vary. If memory serves, the most expensive I recall was a $13 Big Mac in Zurich.:peace
 


First I'd like to say it really pisses me off that I'm basically having to do your work for you because all you did was a 2 minute search in google books without even reading them and called it your "proof." But, since I'm convinced that you have absolutely no argument to make here, I took the initiative to bury your argument before you could even make it.


So let's see here, you give me three books the first from 1981 and the third 1993. The first is just about as ridiculous as I've ever heard. How allopathic medicine became the model? As opposed to what? Homopathy? Acupuncture? When a guy quotes Marx more then he does any actual science on a subject about scientific medicine, that's usually the first sign of someone talking out of his ass.

The third isn't far behind, looking at "the reasons for the rise of molecular biology" in the 1920s an attempt to prove a some alternative view of biology. Give me a break, no where in the book does it actually disprove any of the current theories of biology, and instead tries to talk as if we were still in the 1960s. Skiming through the book I couldn't find any actual talk of biology in the first 60 pages, this book is more about self-promotion of the Rockefeller Foundation rather then actually containing reliable piece of information.

The second isn't as bad as the other two, and he's making a little more of a fair argument. He seems to be criticizing how the drug business runs through the pharmaceutical and medical industry. His example is how one actually has to be diagnosed as depressed in order to get SSRI's, where are St. John's root, and herb, is available over the counter. He's basically asking why do drugs have to be sold with a prescription and run through the medical industry? Well, because that is supposed to be the point of the medical industry anyways, to make a diagnosis and follow the best course of action. He asks why are they able to patent compounds that occur naturally, to which I would say because they discovered it and researched its properties. He also criticizes how protocol forces doctors to prescribe drugs that may be less effective then advertise because drug companies don't have to release their raw data. Its a good argument to make, but it doesn't actually prove one way or the other whether chemo is worse then cancer. Nor does his argument apply across the board either, presumption of guilt isn't something to be made without hard evidence. Often enough, when a pharmaceutical company covers up a drug's side effects and/or lack of efficency, it comes out at some point or another. How do you think he got the info for his book in the first place? Asking for more transparency in the drug making process is fair, claiming that some how all drugs are inheritantly tainted because of a small number of cases is quite a stretch. And a stretch that I don't see him make.

Oh, and by the way, I don't see anywhere that they claim that chemo is worse then cancer. The first tries to quote a social critic who thinks that medicine has made us sicker then we would've been without it (notice how he doesn't actually produce any evidence to back this up, it's just his "argument" based on his Marxian worldview.) Even IF that were true in 1981, that doesn't make it true today with the invention of thousands of breakthrough pharmacueticals such as anti-retrovirals for HIV patients, gene therapy, or stem cell treatments for just about..... well .... quite possibly anything. And still no proof on how your part, or any of your book's part, chemo is worse then cancer..... not a single scientific paper. So unless you're claiming that thousands of research papers, lab experiments, and double blind human trials done by both industry and public organizations are wrong about the effectiveness of chemotherapy vs. cancer, it seems you do not have a leg to stand on here.
 
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The best part of that operation is that it took ZERO gov't action to compete with the "big boys" (McD's, KFC and BK). All it took was the brains and balls to do it. ;)

I see your point but there is no doubt that In-N-Out employees are contributing far more to society than McD employees are. Not only in spending but also in their wages making them ineligible and not in need of food stamps just to survive. If we just tie the minimum wage to inflation and make a 40 hour work week on minimum wage pay enough so that people wouldn't be able to qualify government subsidies and are able to live off of... our economy will stabilize rather well.
 
No. You have not one iota of ground to stand on when you say you know that big macs will be $8. In & Out burgers has a starting wage of $10.50/hour and are doing rather well for a fast food chain with their 16,000 employees.

$10.50/hour isn't $15/hour, is it?
 
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