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McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

So are trying to claim you don't know how your familiy got from there to here.....and this is a justification from your luddism?

Do you even know what luddism is? Where am I against new technologies? I am pro technology. I have written and hold patents in USA, Canada, and Australia for wireless technologies. I work in technology consulting and am a Senior Director of technology for a Fortune 500 consulting company (soon to be Fortune 100, actually). Why am I a Luddite?
 
so..... since the founders who say what commerce is for, ..you instead chose to ignore them, and make you own interpretation.........how convenient.

i dont find it amazing you dont wish to follow the constitution.......so few people do.....
I am still pointing out that argument against minimum wage set by govt by pointing to what founders said is a luddite ignoring of history since. I have little interest in what slave owners opinions MIGHT be about minimum wage, their outlook was VERY Aristotelian.
 
I don't disagree with you about the motivation to put those commerce controls in the USC. I am merely saying that the vesting clause is why Congress can make a minimum wage. This is no different than the 2nd Amendment. That was so that we could quickly form a militia to repel an invasion. Just because nowadays we have an Air National Guard and a National Guard is no reason IMHO to toss out the 2nd Amendment. Same thing. Just because the motivation of the time was well known does not limit the present day value of something in the USC. And the value of the vesting clause is clear in this case - it allows Congress to create a minimum wage. And I use the word "allows" because the judicial branch SCOTUS said it was allowed after reviewing it.

Vested clause is a clause that grants authority. This clause is included under the constitution to authorize the main branches of a government such as the legislative, executive, and the judiciary, to Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court respectively.

Accordingly, through the provision of the constitution the legislative powers are vested with Congress. The legislative powers are granted to the Congress through USCS Const. Art. I, § 1. This provision reads as:

“All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Rep.

this gives no power to congress to operate outside its delagated powers.....

again the 10th...which is a limitation [a restrictive clause ] on the federal government....all power not delegated to the federal government by the constitution shall remain the power of the states......

today's date...... does not change the meaning of the founders.

the founders limited government power for a reason, becuase if government was unlimited, it would take over and be tyrannical.

again nothing in the constitution allows this unlimited power...........congress has powers few and defined, as stated by madison.
 
I am still pointing out that argument against minimum wage set by govt by pointing to what founders said is a luddite ignoring of history since. I have little interest in what slave owners opinions MIGHT be about minimum wage, their outlook was VERY Aristotelian.



white slave owners....sorry has nothing to do with commerce...........defection on your part.
 
Do you even know what luddism is? Where am I against new technologies? I am pro technology. I have written and hold patents in USA, Canada, and Australia for wireless technologies. I work in technology consulting and am a Senior Director of technology for a Fortune 500 consulting company (soon to be Fortune 100, actually). Why am I a Luddite?
Where did I say you were?

Go back and review who I am responding to.

Edit:

My bad, I made the mistake of confusing your post with one from Ernst.
 
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white slave owners....sorry has nothing to do with commerce...........defection on your part.
LOL....REALLY? FFS! It was essential to much of the pre-Civil War US economy.

Good grief, how far does your ignoring of history extend?
 
LOL....REALLY? FFS! It was essential to much of the pre-Civil War US economy.

Good grief, how far does your ignoring of history extend?


excuse me...... we are taking of powers.........not of slave owners......again its powers which are being discussed..
 
Where do families come into play in your view? There will always be those that choose not to work, and as long as entitlements are available will be content with what government provides. All a minimum wage does is to give less incentive for business to provide entry level jobs in the marketplace...
Incentive to hire....is COMPLETELY dependent on DEMAND.

If you pay a wage allowing your employees to thrive, you INCREASE demand. Even Henry got that. A rising tide lifts all boats.
 
excuse me...... we are taking of powers.........not of slave owners......again its powers which are being discussed..
And I will repeat, the POWERS envisioned by White slave owners would not include the lowest earners being paid fair wages. Their viewpoint was extremely classed based....despite the advertisements and claims otherwise.
 
Where do families come into play in your view? There will always be those that choose not to work, and as long as entitlements are available will be content with what government provides. All a minimum wage does is to give less incentive for business to provide entry level jobs in the marketplace...

My worth is $300/hr to my company when I am billing our clients ( bill about 1,000 hours to 1,500 hours per year), and a lot more when I am helping close deals between $500 million and $8 billion (I assist on sales pursuits about 500 to 1000 hours a year). I doubt that a minimum wage going from $7 to $15 would ever change my company's position on hiring entry level folks out of college. We call them "freshers", and I can assure you freshers cannot close large consulting deals to take over Fortune 100 MIS departments and outsource the work. I therefore do not think a fresher will replace me and am a huge proponent of getting freshers as fast as we can get them. We recruit from 100 target universities right now and we are hoping to increase to over 1,000 universities within the next 5 years. Our goal is to grow from 160K to 300K employees over the next 5 years and to replace Tata as the #1 consulting firm in India and replace Accenture as the #1 consulting firm in USA.

But to your question about families. The family unit in USA is broken. Most black children live in one parent households. Racists like Jackson and Sharpton are doing nothing to fix that problem. The single parent household epidemic is becoming very bad among whites and hispanics too - not just blacks. Not only is the family unit broken, but due to abstract poverty, blacks commit 50% of the murders, 50% of the rapes, and 55% of the assaults while black males make up a mere 7% of the population. So clearly attacking poverty will help a lot of Black Americans get out of this conundrum of high imprisonment and high reliance on entitlements. I believe often people pick the path of crime or entitlement because wages for unskilled labor is so low that it is unlivable. I believe a lot of people fear that higher minimum wages will equate to a loss of work. I feel that the loss of work is not the fault of wages. I blame Congress. Congress has made patent laws and corporate tax laws that benefit sending technologies overseas and giving away American ideas. If USA held their patents close to the hip and had laws that keep manufacturing in USA, then manufacturing of high technology would not be heading to China. We do absolutely nothing at the present time to prevent reverse engineering. Shame on Congress for not making sure companies protected American workers by forcing companies to protect from reverse engineering and therefore keeping the world relying on USA technology. When was the last time we bought a TV made in USA, or a computer made in USA, or a microwave oven made in USA? USA invented the travelling wave tube, the magnetron, the vacuum tube, and almost every drop of technology that is used to make computer chips.
 
Where did I say you were?
My bad, I made the mistake of confusing your post with one from Ernst.

Whew! I was all worried. I am like the anti-Luddite. I went back to post #420 to confirm you were talking to me (which you were).
 
And I will repeat, the POWERS envisioned by White slave owners would not include the lowest earners being paid fair wages. Their viewpoint was extremely classed based....despite the advertisements and claims otherwise.


the powers of the constitution are supreme law, and you or congress have no right to violate them, becuase you feel the people of the past were bad people.
 
Whew! I was all worried. I am like the anti-Luddite. I went back to post #420 to confirm you were talking to me (which you were).
Yes, I corrected myself, I made a mistake to whom I was responding.
 
My worth is $300/hr to my company when I am billing our clients ( bill about 1,000 hours to 1,500 hours per year), and a lot more when I am helping close deals between $500 million and $8 billion (I assist on sales pursuits about 500 to 1000 hours a year). I doubt that a minimum wage going from $7 to $15 would ever change my company's position on hiring entry level folks out of college. We call them "freshers", and I can assure you freshers cannot close large consulting deals to take over Fortune 100 MIS departments and outsource the work. I therefore do not think a fresher will replace me and am a huge proponent of getting freshers as fast as we can get them. We recruit from 100 target universities right now and we are hoping to increase to over 1,000 universities within the next 5 years. Our goal is to grow from 160K to 300K employees over the next 5 years and to replace Tata as the #1 consulting firm in India and replace Accenture as the #1 consulting firm in USA.

But to your question about families. The family unit in USA is broken. Most black children live in one parent households. Racists like Jackson and Sharpton are doing nothing to fix that problem. The single parent household epidemic is becoming very bad among whites and hispanics too - not just blacks. Not only is the family unit broken, but due to abstract poverty, blacks commit 50% of the murders, 50% of the rapes, and 55% of the assaults while black males make up a mere 7% of the population. So clearly attacking poverty will help a lot of Black Americans get out of this conundrum of high imprisonment and high reliance on entitlements. I believe often people pick the path of crime or entitlement because wages for unskilled labor is so low that it is unlivable. I believe a lot of people fear that higher minimum wages will equate to a loss of work. I feel that the loss of work is not the fault of wages. I blame Congress. Congress has made patent laws and corporate tax laws that benefit sending technologies overseas and giving away American ideas. If USA held their patents close to the hip and had laws that keep manufacturing in USA, then manufacturing of high technology would not be heading to China. We do absolutely nothing at the present time to prevent reverse engineering. Shame on Congress for not making sure companies protected American workers by forcing companies to protect from reverse engineering and therefore keeping the world relying on USA technology. When was the last time we bought a TV made in USA, or a computer made in USA, or a microwave oven made in USA? USA invented the travelling wave tube, the magnetron, the vacuum tube, and almost every drop of technology that is used to make computer chips.

I'm not interested in your personal circumstances, just as I'm sure you're not interested in mine regarding this subject. I'm not sure of what laws you might be in favor with regarding trade or its associated issues, but I will say that I'm a proponent of fair trade, not free trade policies. Intel used to do most of its manufacturing in this country until environmental regulations forced it to move overseas to remain competitive. We have no problem with other countries producing energy products, yet we are not willing to take advantage of our own resources which would provide jobs for many of the currently unemployed in this country...
 
the powers of the constitution are supreme law, and you or congress have no right to violate them, becuase you feel the people of the past were bad people.
The views of the founders were a product of their time, they OWNED SLAVES, the Constitution allowed this, we don't hold to those fundamentalist ideas any longer. Your argument on min wage STILL ignores ALL of the history between then and now.....and the SC has ruled on min wage:


The Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision written by Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes, ruled that the minimum wage law did not violate the Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment and Parrish was entitled to damages. The Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause provides that no state "shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." West Coast Hotel alleged that because the minimum wage law prevented employers and employees from freely negotiating wages, it restrained "liberty" of contract without due process of the law. In response, the Court flatly declared that the "Constitution does not speak of freedom of contract" and that such a freedom is thus "a qualified, and not an absolute, right" under the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court argued that while the Fourteenth Amendment bans arbitrary deprivation of life, liberty, and property by the state (or protects "procedural" due process, e.g., a right to a fair trial), it does not prohibit the states' ability to "reasonably" regulate the terms of certain activities for the public good (does not protect "substantive" due process, e.g., the basic right to freely contract).
 
The views of the founders were a product of their time, they OWNED SLAVES, the Constitution allowed this, we don't hold to those fundamentalist ideas any longer. Your argument on min wage STILL ignores ALL of the history between then and now.....and the SC has ruled on min wage:


The Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision written by Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes, ruled that the minimum wage law did not violate the Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment and Parrish was entitled to damages. The Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause provides that no state "shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." West Coast Hotel alleged that because the minimum wage law prevented employers and employees from freely negotiating wages, it restrained "liberty" of contract without due process of the law. In response, the Court flatly declared that the "Constitution does not speak of freedom of contract" and that such a freedom is thus "a qualified, and not an absolute, right" under the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court argued that while the Fourteenth Amendment bans arbitrary deprivation of life, liberty, and property by the state (or protects "procedural" due process, e.g., a right to a fair trial), it does not prohibit the states' ability to "reasonably" regulate the terms of certain activities for the public good (does not protect "substantive" due process, e.g., the basic right to freely contract).

all your giving me is, you dont like the founders...so this gives you the excuse to violate the constitution?
 
all your giving me is, you dont like the founders...so this gives you the excuse to violate the constitution?
Wow... I post historical findings of the SC, who found that min wage does not violate the 14th.......and you ignore it.....falling back to White slave owner views.

Evolve.
 
Where do families come into play in your view? There will always be those that choose not to work, and as long as entitlements are available will be content with what government provides. All a minimum wage does is to give less incentive for business to provide entry level jobs in the marketplace...

Good afternoon, AP. :2wave:

Unfortunately there are many who are not content with what they receive for free from the government, hence the clamor for more all the time! They look around, and see others who have what they don't, and resentment and envy kick in, I guess. Work really appears to be a 4-letter word for some who chose not to work.

I agree that there are many who would like a job, though, and those I feel sorry for! Many have college loans to pay for, and without business providing entry level jobs to give them a start, what can they do? :shock:
 
Intel used to do most of its manufacturing in this country until environmental regulations forced it to move overseas to remain competitive.
BS, Intel, like all chip manufactures moved to low wage environs. Fab facilities are very easy to move, worker requirements are fairly minimal.
 
What Reagan meant was a separate minimum wage for youth, not blacks. There is a reason Jimmy did not jump all over that. Reagan had brought up the idea of a separate minimum wage for youth before.
 
Wow... I post historical findings of the SC, who found that min wage does not violate the 14th.......and you ignore it.....falling back to White slave owner views.



Evolve.


the 14th amendment was created for the slave population only, and stated by the ussc in 1873.

it essentially, took 1-8 of the BOR, and made the states adhere to them, becuase the BOR did not apply to the states before the civil war.

1 -8 of the BOR are limitations on the government.......they are restrictive clauses, which the government cannot make laws concerning.
 
Good afternoon, AP. :2wave:

Unfortunately there are many who are not content with what they receive for free from the government, hence the clamor for more all the time! They look around, and see others who have what they don't, and resentment and envy kick in, I guess. Work really appears to be a 4-letter word for some who chose not to work.

I agree that there are many who would like a job, though, and those I feel sorry for! Many have college loans to pay for, and without business providing entry level jobs to give them a start, what can they do? :shock:

Good afternoon pg. It would behoove many to see the skills employers desire before they choose a major or at least choose one they are passionate about and don't worry about the compensation...
 
all your giving me is, you dont like the founders...so this gives you the excuse to violate the constitution?

no
what he has given you is factual information and citations, which then destroyed your shallow argument
 
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