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Report shows how recession hit families [W:391, 502]

Federalist said:
The government coming to buy something from me is evidence that they also think I own the land. Transfer of ownership has nothing to do with the government.

And is this all some sort of argument for why you support the the government initiating aggression against people?
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All of this is firm evidence that the way you would prove you own the land you claim you own is you would rely upon the government to validate that you own it. You did that in two separate answers given freely of your own volition.


Because the previous owner transferred title to me.
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Because the government is offering to buy it from me and not some other person.
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Moderator's Warning:
There is now a zero tolerance warning in effect concerning personal attacks. Sticking to the topic is highly recommended.
 
haymarket said:
All of this is firm evidence that the way you would prove you own the land you claim you own is you would rely upon the government to validate that you own it. You did that in two separate answers given freely of your own volition.
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And because of this you justify the government initiating aggression against people to take things that belong to them?
 
j-mac said:
You're letting your 'tell' show Joe.
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Not playing poker. Just laughing at more silliness. Keep them coming, you're on a roll. ;)

Seriously, you don't really buy all that stuff you put out, do you? Really?
 
Boo Radley said:
Not playing poker. Just laughing at more silliness. Keep them coming, you're on a roll. ;)

Seriously, you don't really buy all that stuff you put out, do you? Really?
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Buy all what stuff? I could ask the same of you could I not?
 
j-mac said:
Buy all what stuff? I could ask the same of you could I not?
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The conspiracy stuff. GW is a conspiracy. Poverty is a conspiracy. Lord, you think republicans have never even been in the game as the liberal conspiracy has just beaten them to death.
 
Federalist said:
And because of this you justify the government initiating aggression against people to take things that belong to them?
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The government did not take things that do not belong to them regarding the issue of eminent domain. They pay you for it and then it belongs to them. They did not take it - they purchased it for fair market value using the power given to them in the US Constitution by the Founding Fathers.

It seems points out your own utter hypocrisy on this issue. You are willing to accept that the government has the authority to decide matters of property ownership. You are willing to accept that the government plays an important role in the deed to property. You are more that willing to accept that the government is a valid authority source to recognize that you own it if they want to deal with you to buy it. All that comes from the simple law of the land and you are willing to accept that. And part of the law in this nation regarding property ownership - going all the way back to English common law adopted in colonies up through the United States Constitution and the last 225 years of American jurisprudence - is the concept of eminent domain.

Its all part of the same property rights isue in the USA. Its all part of the same thing.

You cannot accept that the government is empowered to recognize your property rights with a deed or with an offer to buy as part of their legal authority but then pretend that they do not also have the legititimate authority to exercise eminent domanin which is clearly Constitutional and legal as part of our long standing property rights in the USA.

Property rights are not a menu where you can pick only the items that you like or approve of and claim the government protection for while rejecting other parts of the property rights issue and then claim that the same legal system and the same Constitution is not valid in the item you don't like.

To do that is the height of hypocrisy attempting to use the law on property rights and the government to validate your personal claims on the one hand while rejecting other facets of property rights and government authority on the other hand.

And of course, even after all that, we still come back to the very reality that you yourself dare to pretend that you are against eminent domain and label people as aggressors for suporting it when you yourself support it and use it and benefit it from it willingly and freely.

You lose on both accounts and have no leg to stand upon.
 
Boo Radley said:
The conspiracy stuff. GW is a conspiracy. Poverty is a conspiracy. Lord, you think republicans have never even been in the game as the liberal conspiracy has just beaten them to death.
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No, but liberals are infinitely better at this sort of thing than repubs ever hope to be...repub's biggest mistakes are usually in trying to get along with liberals, by doing something they want, and then instead of liberals acknowledging that, they just claim repubs didn't do enough and blame the failure on them.....It is a wonderfully easy game to follow, and its been around for a long time. Get it through your head Joe, liberal policy in this country is what has led directly to the woes we see today.
 
j-mac said:
No, but liberals are infinitely better at this sort of thing than repubs ever hope to be...repub's biggest mistakes are usually in trying to get along with liberals, by doing something they want, and then instead of liberals acknowledging that, they just claim repubs didn't do enough and blame the failure on them.....It is a wonderfully easy game to follow, and its been around for a long time. Get it through your head Joe, liberal policy in this country is what has led directly to the woes we see today.
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Sure they are. :lamo:lamo:lamo

J, can we schedule an intervention? We need to wean you off the hard stuff (rabid conservative hyperbole).
 
haymarket said:
The government did not take things that do not belong to them regarding the issue of eminent domain. They pay you for it and then it belongs to them. They did not take it - they purchased it for fair market value using the power given to them in the US Constitution by the Founding Fathers.
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They are still initiating aggression by taking the house against the will of the owner. The fact that they deign to give the owner money doesn't make their aggression legitimate.

You cannot accept that the government is empowered to recognize your property rights with a deed or with an offer to buy as part of their legal authority but then pretend that they do not also have the legititimate authority to exercise eminent domanin which is clearly Constitutional and legal as part of our long standing property rights in the USA.
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Actually, I don't buy the idea that the state (an organization that initiates aggression) should have any special powers to recognize or not recognize who owns what goods. Such a function could be performed by institutions that don't initiate aggression.

I am perfectly consistent with regard to the state - in so far as it initiates aggression, it is acting in an unethical and illegitimate manner.
 
j-mac said:
repub's biggest mistakes are usually in trying to get along with liberals
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amen brotha, if someone comes to your house and wants to wreck yer stuff n have their way with your wife n daughter
why'd ya invite them in offer them a pepsi and offer to discuss the matter?
Guess you get all that you've got coming to ya then eh?
 
Boo Radley said:
wean you off the hard stuff
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Stop taking half of every dollar the average middle class wage slave makes in taxes
and we'll consider ya'll weened from the bottle next comes the training pants?
2ly1xkl.jpg
 
But you do and did. You gave us two specific answers both using the power and recognistion of government as to who legally owns property. You are already on record regarding that authority and your own acceptance of it.
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haymarket said:
But you do and did. You gave us two specific answers both using the power and recognistion of government as to who legally owns property. You are already on record regarding that authority and your own acceptance of it.
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No, I think that I'd prefer that ownership records be maintained by people who don't initiate aggression against others.

I try to consistently advocate against the initiation of aggression, so since the function CAN be performed in a non-aggressive way, I would have to conclude that it SHOULD be done in a non-aggressive way.
 
that means you are passive/aggressive right? ;)
 
Federalist said:
No, I think that I'd prefer that ownership records be maintained by people who don't initiate aggression against others.
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Sorry but you are already on record here giving two statements that you would look to government authority to establish ownership. The same government .... the same authority .... the same Constitution .... the same legal system .... that does that for you also has eminent domain as part of its property rights structure.
 
haymarket said:
Sorry but you are already on record here giving two statements that you would look to government authority to establish ownership. The same government .... the same authority .... the same Constitution .... the same legal system .... that does that for you also has eminent domain as part of its property rights structure.
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Now you're going to argue your position AND my position?

I would prefer that ownership records be maintained by people who don't initiate aggression against others.

My consistent position is that the initiation of aggression is unethical and unjustified. There is no reason for a records of ownership to be maintained by an agency that initiates aggression when it can just as easily be done by an agency that operates in a peaceful manner.

In fact, the sort of initiation of aggression that you and other statists support is precisely what I oppose.
 
Federalist said:
Now you're going to argue your position AND my position?
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Not at all. I merely reproduced your own answers and your own position that you look to governmental authority....... governmental power ....... Constitutional authority .... to determine your claim to own the land you claim you own. by the way - that would be the same government that presided over the aggression against the previous owners of the very land you claim to own who were stripped of their land so others could have it ending up in a long line with you as the beneficiary of what you would call aggression against innocents. And to compound that hypocrisy, you then look to the very government you condemn for legal authorization of your claim of ownership while decrying other aspects of property rights under the same law which protects you.

My consistent position is that the initiation of aggression is unethical and unjustified.
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By CONSISTENT you mean a position you take in debate on sites like this. In real life, your actual position is not at all consistent with that as you willingly live on land taken by others by force .... in your parlance,. by aggression against innocents...... and you freely and willingly benefit from things like eminent domain - another thing you rant and rail against as aggression against innocents but enjoy the benefits of all the same.

In reality Federalist, there is no CONSISTENCY in your professed position in this discussion and your real life position on such matters.

Feel free to argue your position. I simply reserve the right to respectfully point out all the positions you have taken - both in writing and in actual real world actions.
 
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haymarket said:
Not at all. I merely reproduced your own answers and your own position that you look to governmental authority....... governmental power ....... Constitutional authority .... to determine your claim to own the land you claim you own. by the way - that would be the same government that presided over the aggression against the previous owners of the very land you claim to own who were stripped of their land so others could have it ending up in a long line with you as the beneficiary of what you would call aggression against innocents. And to compound that hypocrisy, you then look to the very government you condemn for legal authorization of your claim of ownership while decrying other aspects of property rights under the same law which protects you.
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I said that I know I own the land because the previous owner transferred the title to me. What this has to do with the government is beyond me, frankly.

By CONSISTENT you mean a position you take in debate on sites like this. In real life, your actual position is not at all consistent with that as you willingly live on land taken by others by force .... in your parlance,. by aggression against innocents...... and you freely and willingly benefit from things like eminent domain - another thing you rant and rail against as aggression against innocents but enjoy the benefits of all the same.

In reality Federalist, there is no CONSISTENCY in your professed position in this discussion and your real life position on such matters.

Feel free to argue your position. I simply reserve the right to respectfully point out all the positions you have taken - both in writing and in actual real world actions.
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So your are disproving the argument against the government taking people's land by attacking me personally? Ad hom is a fallacy.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
Stop taking half of every dollar the average middle class wage slave makes in taxes
and we'll consider ya'll weened from the bottle next comes the training pants?
2ly1xkl.jpg
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I talked about how to get more of your money by removing healthcare from employment. I couldn't get Conservative to even tell me why he didn't want it. :shrug:
 
Federalist said:
I said that I know I own the land because the previous owner transferred the title to me. What this has to do with the government is beyond me, frankly.



So your are disproving the argument against the government taking people's land by attacking me personally? Ad hom is a fallacy.
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Title is part of a legal process which comes from the government.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/title

Title
In Property Law, a comprehensive term referring to the legal basis of the ownership of property, encompassing real and Personal Property and intangible and tangible interests therein; also a document serving as evidence of ownership of property, such as the certificate of title to a motor vehicle.

In regard to legislation, the heading or preliminary part of a particular statute that designates the name by which that act is known.

In the law of Trademarks, the name of an item that may be used exclusively by an individual for identification purposes to indicate the quality and origin of the item.

In the law of property, title in its broadest sense refers to all rights that can be secured and enjoyed under the law. It is frequently synonymous with absolute ownership. Title to property ordinarily signifies an estate in fee simple, which means that the holder has full and absolute ownership. The term does not necessarily imply absolute ownership, however; it can also mean mere possession or the right thereof.
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Government is a part of the title process and the rights given to you by the title.

You also said you own the land because the government recognizes that you do. Your acceptance of the government as authority for property rights is well established.

Nobody is attacking you. We are only discussing your actions regarding what you feel is aggression that you freely participate in. You sling the accusations rather freely at others but you are like the finger pointing blame at another while three of your own point right back at you. Your own statements and actions say this very loudly.
 
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