• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Navy ready to launch first strike on Syria

Is Congress going to at least discuss it, if not issue a declaration of war?
:roll:




Nope.

First we'll have the war, then we'll think about a declaration.

Right now the GOPers in the house are pretty busy trying to repeal Obamacare and make it stick, they'll probably be working on that until the next election.
 
Last edited:
Nobody is saying we should invade Syria to solely to bring Assad to justice, the argument is that we should invade it due to the current and worsening humanitarian situation. Maybe we should invade France to avenge the revolutionary terror.

And should they get around to doing anything, nearly everything they will have done will have been done in the past tense. Assuming any trace of chemical use can be found at all.

Or say he stops using chemical munitions for two months, then starts up again. I don't think most people would consider that a new problem to deal with. Any more than the current situation is to previously reported chemical use. It's all one of the same.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating we do anything. We had some of the very same conditions listed in our reasons for war with Iraq and the left acted like they never existed, all for political reasons. What's going on in Syria could become very tough going and the left has a proven track record of the stunts they will do when the going gets tough. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble for America and especially our troops even if it's the right thing to do.
 
Nope.

First we'll have the war, then we'll think about a declaration.

Right now the GOPers in the house are pretty busy trying to repeal Obamacare and make it stick, they'll probably be working on that until the next election.

Heya SN.....well that's what Kerry is alluding to. Russia is saying something else and standing on it.

Western leaders mull military response in Syria

0eecb8b2be1d9b1c3b0f6a706700fd77.jpg


Western leaders are discussing whether to stage a military response to last week's alleged chemical weapons attack in Syria. France and Germany, which refused to support the 2003 Iraq invasion, suggested Monday they may take part. Russia said any such intervention would violate international law.

Secretary of State John Kerry says chemical weapons were used in Syria, accuses President Bashar Assad of destroying evidence, and says the U.S. has additional information about the attack and will soon make it public. Kerry calls the attack a "moral obscenity" that should shock the conscience of the world.

RUSSIA

"They cannot produce evidence, but keep on saying that the 'red line' has been crossed and they cannot wait any longer," he said at a Moscow news conference.....snip~

Western leaders mull military response in Syria
 
And should they get around to doing anything, nearly everything they will have done will have been done in the past tense. Assuming any trace of chemical use can be found at all.

Or say he stops using chemical munitions for two months, then starts up again. I don't think most people would consider that a new problem to deal with. Any more than the current situation is to previously reported chemical use. It's all one of the same.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating we do anything. We had some of the very same conditions listed in our reasons for war with Iraq and the left acted like they never existed, all for political reasons. What's going on in Syria could become very tough going and the left has a proven track record of the stunts they will do when the going gets tough. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble for America and especially our troops even if it's the right thing to do.

Saddam didn't do anything even approaching level of destruction seen in either the Al-Anfal campaign or whats happening in Syria after the establishment of the safe haven system. I would agree that these attacks were used as part of a long list of 'reasons Saddam Hussein is bad' but they were'nt the primary justification for the invasion, that intervention had already happened over a decade earlier and was largely supported across the political spectrum despite taking place (in part) under a Republican president. Surely you see the different in urgency here?

Furthermore intervention in Syria will look a lot more like Kurdistan 1992 than Iraq 2003, no one worth their salt is considering an armed occupation.
 
Last edited:
But unlike Obama, Bush replaced warriors with warriors.

Heya Apache. :2wave: And Putin knows it too.

Russia's two-and-a-half year dispute with the West over the conflict in Syria hit a new peak Monday as Moscow warned against military action without UN approval and cast doubt over the regime's involvement in a claimed chemical weapons attack.

A telephone call Monday between Russian President Vladimir Putin and British Prime Minister David Cameron underlined how far apart Moscow and the West were.

With clamour growing in Western states for military action against Assad, Russia warned such intervention would destabilise the entire Middle East and be based on false reasoning.

"If force is used without a UN resolution it will lead to very serious consequences in relations between Russia and the United States and its NATO partners," said Alexander Filonik, a Middle East expert at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

At a hastily called news conference Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any use of force against Syria without UN approval would be a "very grave violation of international law."

He said ideas floated in the West about knocking out the regime's military infrastructure and helping hand victory to rebels were not just an "illusion" but a "grave mistake that will not lead to any peace, but only mark a new, even bloodier stage of the war in Syria."

Taking military action against Assad would be a clear sign from the West that it does not want to take account of Moscow's opinion, Maria Lipman of the Carnegie Centre in Moscow told AFP.

"Moscow could not let that go by without a response," she said, adding that Russia could hit back by strengthening military cooperation with the Assad regime.

"London and Washington... just need a guilty verdict (on Assad). Any other verdict will be rejected," the head of the lower house of Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, Alexei Pushkov, wrote on Twitter.....snip~

Russia, West on collision course over Syria
AFP – 4 hrs ago <<<<< More here.
 
Honestly, I could care less if Syrians chem each other. Let 'em. It doesn't threaten us in one single way. Idk where we get off being the moral police of the world but apparently, regardless of party, every POTUS believes we are. Almost every lefty on this thread wants to say that cruise missiles are different from troops. I'm pretty sure the Syrian mom/child on the other end of the ordinance would disagree. Both kill someone we shouldn't put ourselves in position to kill. Period. But, I wouldn't expect Pres Obama to receive the same treatment. When GW Bush wanted to go to Iraq for Desert Storm, only 11 Dems voted for it. The rest vehemently opposed. His son wanted to go to Iraq as well. After the initial "forced" vote that they had to do because of 9/11, they all switched up on him and began criticizing. Haven't heard that much with Pres Obama. Haven't heard the back biting on his partial surge in Afghanistan that didn't work. Haven't heard much about him dropping Hellfires on civilians. Didn't hear much about him bombing Libya and putting Delta Force in there. Didn't hear much about him violating Pakistan's sovereignty to get Bin Laden (to be fair, I was all about that as well). And now we're poised to go down the same road with Syria as we did with Iraq. Not hearing much about that. If anything should give us pause, it's that the war mongering John McCain is all about us doing something to Syria. I rest my case.
 
Heya Apache. :2wave: And Putin knows it too.

Russia's two-and-a-half year dispute with the West over the conflict in Syria hit a new peak Monday as Moscow warned against military action without UN approval and cast doubt over the regime's involvement in a claimed chemical weapons attack.

A telephone call Monday between Russian President Vladimir Putin and British Prime Minister David Cameron underlined how far apart Moscow and the West were.

With clamour growing in Western states for military action against Assad, Russia warned such intervention would destabilise the entire Middle East and be based on false reasoning.

"If force is used without a UN resolution it will lead to very serious consequences in relations between Russia and the United States and its NATO partners," said Alexander Filonik, a Middle East expert at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

At a hastily called news conference Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any use of force against Syria without UN approval would be a "very grave violation of international law."

He said ideas floated in the West about knocking out the regime's military infrastructure and helping hand victory to rebels were not just an "illusion" but a "grave mistake that will not lead to any peace, but only mark a new, even bloodier stage of the war in Syria."

Taking military action against Assad would be a clear sign from the West that it does not want to take account of Moscow's opinion, Maria Lipman of the Carnegie Centre in Moscow told AFP.

"Moscow could not let that go by without a response," she said, adding that Russia could hit back by strengthening military cooperation with the Assad regime.

"London and Washington... just need a guilty verdict (on Assad). Any other verdict will be rejected," the head of the lower house of Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, Alexei Pushkov, wrote on Twitter.....snip~

Russia, West on collision course over Syria
AFP – 4 hrs ago <<<<< More here.

Syria using sarin gas doesn't make any sense, it would only benefit the rebels. Now the rebels have a lot to gain using gas and making it look like Syria used the gas.

I don't trust the Saudis, Qatar or the Frogs. After over four years of one lie after another lie I can no longer trust a word coming from the Obama administration. It's pretty bad when you can't even trust the accuracy of when the unemployment and GDP numbers are released. "It was all about a video." How stupid does Obama think Americans are ? Only 52 % of Americans are stupid.

Where are our carriers ? Why isn't their a CSG in the 6th Fleet AOR ? The past eleven Presidents always were able to keep a carrier in the Med 24/7. One carrier in on station in the 5th Fleet AOR. One is not where it's suppose to be, but is in the 7th Fleet AOR because the carrier that is suppose to be assigned to the 7th Fleet is broken down in Japan.

Earlier last month I listened to the Chief of Naval Operations explain how bad of shape our Navy is in under Obama, that the Navy's carrier that is suppose to be the "surge" carrier in case WW lll broke out can't "surge" (deploy) because the sailors aren't up to par in training for deployment. I suppose instead of training for deployment they find themselves sitting in classrooms attending mandatory sensitivity training instead of training for war.
 
Honestly, I could care less if Syrians chem each other. Let 'em. It doesn't threaten us in one single way. Idk where we get off being the moral police of the world but apparently, regardless of party, every POTUS believes we are. Almost every lefty on this thread wants to say that cruise missiles are different from troops. I'm pretty sure the Syrian mom/child on the other end of the ordinance would disagree. Both kill someone we shouldn't put ourselves in position to kill. Period. But, I wouldn't expect Pres Obama to receive the same treatment. When GW Bush wanted to go to Iraq for Desert Storm, only 11 Dems voted for it. The rest vehemently opposed. His son wanted to go to Iraq as well. After the initial "forced" vote that they had to do because of 9/11, they all switched up on him and began criticizing. Haven't heard that much with Pres Obama. Haven't heard the back biting on his partial surge in Afghanistan that didn't work. Haven't heard much about him dropping Hellfires on civilians. Didn't hear much about him bombing Libya and putting Delta Force in there. Didn't hear much about him violating Pakistan's sovereignty to get Bin Laden (to be fair, I was all about that as well). And now we're poised to go down the same road with Syria as we did with Iraq. Not hearing much about that. If anything should give us pause, it's that the war mongering John McCain is all about us doing something to Syria. I rest my case.

I am sick of us picking and choosing who to invade and trying to justify it with political bull****. If we were the moral elitist cops that we appear to be we would invade EVERY country in violation of human rights violation and that would be all over the world. It would be WWIII.
 
Syria using sarin gas doesn't make any sense, it would only benefit the rebels. Now the rebels have a lot to gain using gas and making it look like Syria used the gas.

I don't trust the Saudis, Qatar or the Frogs. After over four years of one lie after another lie I can no longer trust a word coming from the Obama administration. It's pretty bad when you can't even trust the accuracy of when the unemployment and GDP numbers are released. "It was all about a video." How stupid does Obama think Americans are ? Only 52 % of Americans are stupid.

Where are our carriers ? Why isn't their a CSG in the 6th Fleet AOR ? The past eleven Presidents always were able to keep a carrier in the Med 24/7. One carrier in on station in the 5th Fleet AOR. One is not where it's suppose to be, but is in the 7th Fleet AOR because the carrier that is suppose to be assigned to the 7th Fleet is broken down in Japan.

Earlier last month I listened to the Chief of Naval Operations explain how bad of shape our Navy is in under Obama, that the Navy's carrier that is suppose to be the "surge" carrier in case WW lll broke out can't "surge" (deploy) because the sailors aren't up to par in training for deployment. I suppose instead of training for deployment they find themselves sitting in classrooms attending mandatory sensitivity training instead of training for war.

Yeah well Idris lied.....he can't control Al Nusra. Plus they already released that they wont accept the National Council. Al Nusra executed a FSA Commander. Idris said he would guarantee that Weapons wont fall into the hands of the Extremists. Then Right after he said it. Al Nusra went and took what they wanted. Even his own people said they will give Al Nusra what they want. How much more blatant do they and the Salafists have to be?

This is ridiculous to for us to try and get involved in this. But Johnny Quest McCain and Corker are thinking surgical strike.
 
Unless America is ready to go to war with Russia attacking Syria would not be wise.

This is another Bay of Pigs in a sense. This is a USSR/USA showdown.

I hope cooler heads prevail.

To be fair, I have heard just as much sensible dialog arguing against the idea, that it was the Syrian government that gassed the people, as I have suggesting they did. We all know what happens when we go in half-cocked on faulty intel.

And I see the same old faces trying to sell us this war that sold us the last 2.

I thought Obama was supposed to be the "cool, collected" president with the big brain. Time will tell.

But folks, here's the big one. This will be one doozey of a war.

Most likely, Russia will just use Syrian blood for the war. They will just make sure they have all they need to do as much damage to the US. Then when we come out of it bloody and bruised with our stocks depleted..... check mate.

I don't know why people aren't looking past their nose on this but we have seen it happen before.

How many children do you have to offer up? Mine are all grown. My grand kids won't be old enough for at least 10 years. I'm thinking about just taking the tax hits and cashing in my life investments. Maybe get a small home near the beach with a boat slip around Tarpon Springs.

They say you can't fix stupid. Sometimes I just think it is our American destiny to be stupid. Look at our cities. Look at our leaders. Look at neighbors demonizing neighbors.

I believe I'm just going to let the cards fall where they may and spend my days fishing for speckled trout and redfish.



I
 
...Leftists demand he go to Congress... if not will they scream, rant and call him a war monger?

Will we see protests in the streets?

Will we hear about the cost of such actions?

Will we hear about how it will piss off Muslims?

Will we hear about the leadership vacuum and who will fill it?

I have never supported a war. I was neutral about Kosova because it was a approaching a genocidal situation.

I´ll be writing letters, posting opinions and protesting etc against this war. Nothing good can come from it.
 
Last edited:
Unless America is ready to go to war with Russia attacking Syria would not be wise.

This is another Bay of Pigs in a sense. This is a USSR/USA showdown.

I hope cooler heads prevail.

To be fair, I have heard just as much sensible dialog arguing against the idea, that it was the Syrian government that gassed the people, as I have suggesting they did. We all know what happens when we go in half-cocked on faulty intel.

And I see the same old faces trying to sell us this war that sold us the last 2.

I thought Obama was supposed to be the "cool, collected" president with the big brain. Time will tell.

But folks, here's the big one. This will be one doozey of a war.

Most likely, Russia will just use Syrian blood for the war. They will just make sure they have all they need to do as much damage to the US. Then when we come out of it bloody and bruised with our stocks depleted..... check mate.

I don't know why people aren't looking past their nose on this but we have seen it happen before.

How many children do you have to offer up? Mine are all grown. My grand kids won't be old enough for at least 10 years. I'm thinking about just taking the tax hits and cashing in my life investments. Maybe get a small home near the beach with a boat slip around Tarpon Springs.

They say you can't fix stupid. Sometimes I just think it is our American destiny to be stupid. Look at our cities. Look at our leaders. Look at neighbors demonizing neighbors.

I believe I'm just going to let the cards fall where they may and spend my days fishing for speckled trout and redfish.



I

Yep Cap.....Russia would luv nothing more than to get us into this War. They know exactly how it is going to hit us and they know we cant just up and industrialize like before. That we are stretched thin now.

Which then if Russia jumps in.....then we know Iran and all their talk will come once they know the Big Bear is committed totally. Which doesn't even count China. Or N. Korea starting something then.
 
...
Where were you folks when Saddam was killing a hundred people per day on average?
Where were you folks when Saddam, who used WMD played games with UN Inspecteurs?
Where were you folks when he kicked out the UN Inspecteurs?
Where were you folks?
...

Redress said:
...I am a Gulf War vet.


 
I think any leader who would use chemical weapons on civilians intentionally deserves a cruise missle suppository.

Like Saddam?
 
Yep Cap.....Russia would luv nothing more than to get us into this War. They know exactly how it is going to hit us and they know we cant just up and industrialize like before. That we are stretched thin now.

Which then if Russia jumps in.....then we know Iran and all their talk will come once they know the Big Bear is committed totally. Which doesn't even count China. Or N. Korea starting something then.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Seriously, how easy was that to figure out?

They are leading us around like we have a nose ring. And look how many idiots are ready to, "GO OVER THAR AND KICK THAR ASS!"

Can't fix stupid. I give up.
 
You didn't mention Israel either and how Obama might use them. Or the centuries old hatred between India and Pakistan.

And so the Shias and Sunnis finally get to blow up the world.

Sen. McCain wants more than cruise missiles while back-handing Obama in public.

Even sensible Sen. Coburn mentions impeachment since his fellow Oklahoma Sen. Inhofe had already committed on the subject.

Weak at home, weak at home, by politics or not, weak at home
Yep Cap.....Russia would luv nothing more than to get us into this War. They know exactly how it is going to hit us and they know we cant just up and industrialize like before. That we are stretched thin now.

Which then if Russia jumps in.....then we know Iran and all their talk will come once they know the Big Bear is committed totally. Which doesn't even count China. Or N. Korea starting something then.
 
Ding. Ding. Ding.

Seriously, how easy was that to figure out?

They are leading us around like we have a nose ring. And look how many idiots are ready to, "GO OVER THAR AND KICK THAR ASS!"

Can't fix stupid. I give up.


Well, it would help if our people wouldn't listen to the French on this and those Rebels with their MB backing.....since the French want to keep pushing the issue. Let the French go take the Russians and Assad on. That way we can tell them again.....ya just don't have what it takes. Never did. But be our guest. We will send ya some supplies.
 
You didn't mention Israel either and how Obama might use them. Or the centuries old hatred between India and Pakistan.

And so the Shias and Sunnis finally get to blow up the world.

Sen. McCain wants more than cruise missiles while back-handing Obama in public.

Even sensible Sen. Coburn mentions impeachment since his fellow Oklahoma Sen. Inhofe had already committed on the subject.

Weak at home, weak at home, by politics or not, weak at home

Yeah.....and I didn't mention Egypt, Yemen. Nor Iraq, where the Shia and Sunni are already back into assassinating each others Clerics.
 
I didn't realize that Reagan/Bush-41 ignored what Saddam did to his Kurds in 1988, and that was close to 5,000 dead. I smirk at the attempt tonight to link the WMD of Syria coming from Iraq. Where did Iraq get them originally?
Yeah.....and I didn't mention Egypt, Yemen. Nor Iraq, where the Shia and Sunni are already back into assassinating each others Clerics.
 
"Syria using sarin gas doesn't make any sense, it would only benefit the rebels. Now the rebels have a lot to gain using gas and making it look like Syria used the gas". You got that exactly right Apache!
 
I didn't realize that Reagan/Bush-41 ignored what Saddam did to his Kurds in 1988, and that was close to 5,000 dead. I smirk at the attempt tonight to link the WMD of Syria coming from Iraq. Where did Iraq get them originally?

Well, were ya smirking when the Syrian Rebels just got done running 30k Kurds out of Syria. By Blowing them out of their communities and homes. Course they didn't even bother to use Chems. They just went for the straight raw massacring.
 
I think any leader who would use chemical weapons on civilians intentionally deserves a cruise missle suppository.

And what proof do you have this is true?
 
Oh, I read it. That's why I asked those other questions of you. Your "point" was near pointless.

Here, if the words aren't helping maybe a gif will help you understand what happened in that exchange.

ku-crossover-2-20-13.gif
 
Is there only one bad guy in Syria or two? Or more? Is there any course Obama can take and please you?

Why did Reagan/Bush ignore Saddam trash his Kurds? Where did Iraq get their weapons during the 80's when they fought Iran?

Well, were ya smirking when the Syrian Rebels just got done running 30k Kurds out of Syria. By Blowing them out of their communities and homes. Course they didn't even bother to use Chems. They just went for the straight raw massacring.
 
Back
Top Bottom