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89 Year Old WWII Veteran Beaten and Left for Dead Dies

Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I would say that is not true, and would point to minority population, effectivness of law enforcement and gang activity instead. Gun control efforts have very little to do with reducing gun (ab)use, just a recreational drug control efforts have very little to do with reducing recreational drug (ab)use.

The correlation I noticed was that strict gun control laws imply more crime since it is the victims who are then disarmed. Criminals pay no attention to the laws, and are thus given a distinct advantage.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I think you're missing the point that the cost of living in South Dakota is a lot less than that in Chicago. Just the housing is a BIG part of it. Most people spend about 1/3 of their monthly income on housing.

Well, then maybe the question should be all things being equal, why is the cost of living so much higher in a city like Chicago, as compared to a Rapid City? Could it be that policies, and taxes in a demo/progressive stronghold like Chicago drive costs up, and keep the poor from moving up?
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

Unlike some, I'm not going to put words ins someone else's mouth. There must be an agenda though, this is Debate Politics, not "Hey, here's some statistics I found."

Yes. it's debate politics so lets debate. It's not right to say there is some 'secret agenda' going on without speaking to that agenda.

I would say that you are circling the problem rather than getting at the truth and that is a serious part of the problem in race relations today. Until everyone gathers together and admits where the problems exist rather than trotting out the familiar excuses then things will never change. Why would they?
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

The correlation I noticed was that strict gun control laws imply more crime since it is the victims who are then disarmed. Criminals pay no attention to the laws, and are thus given a distinct advantage.

More liberal dreaming that by making something illegal that criminals will no longer do it. The problem is the near total lack of enforcement of existing laws and sentencing "guidelines". How often do we read of the "extensive" prior criminal history when one of these thugs makes the news for a really outrageous crime? People act shocked that thugs and criminals tend to continue (or even get more bold) once they learn of the nearly non-existant consequences of their actions in our criminal "just us" system.

Felons sentenced to a State prison in 2000 had an average sentence of 4 1/2 years but were likely to serve 55% of that sentence - or just 2 1/2 years - before release, assuming that 2000 release policies continue in effect.

Criminal Sentencing Statistics

http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/PSATSFV.PDF

http://edr.state.fl.us/Content/resource-demand/criminal-justice/reports/criminal-justice/cj25.pdf
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

But this still does not change the fact that, even though the murder was committed by 2 black teens, this does not have to be a racist murder. Until the evidence of such a reason exists, it is wrong to race-bate (not accusing you, a general observation) the case. If the murder happened due to racism we can discuss that at the appropriate time IMHO.

And yet, despite the fact that George Zimmerman was having his head bashed in by Trevon Martin many jumped at the idea that it was a 'racist' murder. Why are people so quick to judge one way and not the other?
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

Yes. it's debate politics so lets debate. It's not right to say there is some 'secret agenda' going on without speaking to that agenda.

I would say that you are circling the problem rather than getting at the truth and that is a serious part of the problem in race relations today. Until everyone gathers together and admits where the problems exist rather than trotting out the familiar excuses then things will never change. Why would they?

I've said what I think his position is, and he denies it. Therefore, I'm waiting for him to state what that position is rather than throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

And yet whenever someone says that those statistics prove that poverty is a driving factor, you turn it back away from any interpretation of the facts other than race. That's not honest discussion.

Because there is no evidence to suggest that any of these murders were committed out of financial need. If they were without food or shelter there are facilities and help available. There was no reason to murder anyone, unless you are talking poverty of the soul.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

Well, then maybe the question should be all things being equal, why is the cost of living so much higher in a city like Chicago, as compared to a Rapid City? Could it be that policies, and taxes in a demo/progressive stronghold like Chicago drive costs up, and keep the poor from moving up?

Because more people want to live in Chicago. Supply of land and housing units vs the demand for them causes the prices to go up. Cost of living in a major city is always higher because of market economics, not because of Democrats. That is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard.

Tell me, when Rudy Giuliani was mayor of New York, wasn't the cost of living still pretty high?
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

Because there is no evidence to suggest that any of these murders were committed out of financial need. If they were without food or shelter there are facilities and help available. There was no reason to murder anyone, unless you are talking poverty of the soul.

These murders, no. General crime numbers are a different story.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

We've been over this before and you know it. Those statistics by themselves don't prove any of what you claim.
Those statistics only prove that negroes commit disproportionate amounts of crime.

I'm just going to leave that and let people judge that statement on its merits.

Black people commit more crimes is your position. Why do you think they do? What is the reason for that, in your mind?
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I've said what I think his position is, and he denies it. Therefore, I'm waiting for him to state what that position is rather than throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.

I may have missed something other than you claiming it was a secret agenda of some sort. I haven't seen anything other than what's really going on.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I'm just going to leave that and let people judge that statement on its merits.

Black people commit more crimes is your position. Why do you think they do? What is the reason for that, in your mind?

So you do not debate that stats. Therefore we might start looking for possible solutions.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I may have missed something other than you claiming it was a secret agenda of some sort. I haven't seen anything other than what's really going on.


Yes, you did. When I said it was economic, he came back with "negroes commit more crime." When I tried to put in on race, he claimed not to have said anything about that. I'm just trying to pin down his position so that I can argue or not depending on what it is.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

So you do not debate that stats. Therefore we might start looking for possible solutions.

I, for one, don't think it's because of race. It comes down to lower incomes and less educational opportunities promote a loss of hope. The fact that these crosses fall disproportionately on minorities is also a fact.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I, for one, don't think it's because of race. It comes down to lower incomes and less educational opportunities promote a loss of hope. The fact that these crosses fall disproportionately on minorities is also a fact.

Yes, it is a fact but I don't believe that giving out more money will solve the problem. Here's another take. Don’t Ignore Race in Christopher Lane’s Murder | TIME.com
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

Yes, it is a fact but I don't believe that giving out more money will solve the problem. Here's another take. Don’t Ignore Race in Christopher Lane’s Murder | TIME.com

We have to be smart about how we spend the money. Investing in education would be a big step in the right direction, and states that fund schools locally need to do something to fix the disparities. Spur economic development by rezoning areas of the cities for the "big box" retailers. Make welfare a job rather than a handout, not having or being unable to find a job is devastating to the human psyche.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

And yet, despite the fact that George Zimmerman was having his head bashed in by Trevon Martin many jumped at the idea that it was a 'racist' murder. Why are people so quick to judge one way and not the other?

There was a possible racist element in the Zimmerman case, not the murder itself but as said getting out of the car could have been racially motivated but I do not want to get into trouble again (or get quite rightly warned again), I think we should keep the Zimmerman discussion in that forum.

In this case the only thing we know as of yet is that one white elderly man was killed by 2 black teens. Nobody so far knows why these teens attacked the man. Hopefully we will get to know that sooner rather than later.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I disagree with you. If Oprah was not famous than nobody would have noticed/cared. And like it or not, discrimination is a very nasty thing. Especially if you are the victim of discrimination.

And the truth? I was not in the store, you were not in the store. Oprah felt discriminated against and maybe she was but it could be a misunderstanding due to language barriers.

But this still does not change the fact that, even though the murder was committed by 2 black teens, this does not have to be a racist murder. Until the evidence of such a reason exists, it is wrong to race-bate (not accusing you, a general observation) the case. If the murder happened due to racism we can discuss that at the appropriate time IMHO.

I never said it was a racist murder, if anything I went out of my way to avoid even the slightest hint at it. We have to keep assumptions out of it until we get the facts.

However it was a black on white crime, had it been reversed, race based crime or not, it would have made news early Thursday morning not waited until mid day Friday to become news worthy.

If it were a white on black crime, I wonder if the President would have likened the victim to maybe say his own grandfather? Instead, the President remains silent as a war hero is laid to rest after being beaten to death by some young teens.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

We have to be smart about how we spend the money. Investing in education would be a big step in the right direction, and states that fund schools locally need to do something to fix the disparities. Spur economic development by rezoning areas of the cities for the "big box" retailers. Make welfare a job rather than a handout, not having or being unable to find a job is devastating to the human psyche.

I think you nailed a lot of it. Anyone who has been in that situation can understand the sense of hopelessness that can surround young men of any race or color. Paid "Community service" jobs might be good for many of these young people might before they commit the crime, not after.

And I believe school vouchers are essential as well. It gets the parents more involved in the decision making process and better grades and student participation (and pride) becomes apparent..

What We Saw at the DC School Voucher Rally - YouTube

Vouchers in New York, Dayton, and D.C. : Education Next

The Case for School Vouchers - YouTube

DOJ Lawsuit Would Keep Blacks in Failing Schools | Cato @ Liberty
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

I'm just going to leave that and let people judge that statement on its merits.

Black people commit more crimes is your position. Why do you think they do? What is the reason for that, in your mind?

Blacks commit over half of all violent crime in the u.s. despite only being 13% of the population. That is a well known, undeniable fact.

As I've said before...I don't know exactly why and I don't care why. There is no one on earth that can tell you why each and every crime was committed. You're asking for an impossible answer and since it can't be given, you imply that therefore nothing else matters.

How many grains of sand are there on the beach? If you don't know the answer does that mean there is no sand on the beach? Pretzel logic...
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

You make a lot of these "absolute" assertions, without any back-up links or sources, like when declaring the bolded above. Perhaps you can go to the Lowe's website and show us that a 2X4 is roughly 25% more in Chicago, IL than in Rapid City, SD. Pick some other "everyday" items if you like (say toilet paper, soda pop or frozen pizza), that are sold and advertised (as normal prices) by the same national chain of stores in both cities.
Sure, I can pretty easily prove it, here is a washer in Sioux Falls price, pls notice the rebate portion.
Maytag 3.6 cu ft High Efficiency Top-Load Washer (White) ENERGY STAR
Rating 4.46 out of 5 stars (516 Reviews)
$539.10
Up to $125 in Rebates
Was: $599.00
Save 10% thru 08/27/2013
Here is the exact same washer in Chicago:
Maytag 3.6 cu ft High Efficiency Top-Load Washer (White) ENERGY STAR
Rating 4.46 out of 5 stars (516 Reviews)
$539.10
Was: $599.00
Save 10% thru 08/27/2013

So they give you an additional $125 in rebates in Sioux Falls which is roughly 24% off. On top of that here is a cost of living calculator you can find on CNN Money.
Cost of Living Calculator: Compare the Cost of Living in Two Cities - CNNMoney

They didn't have Rapid City so I had to select Sioux Falls, but Rapid City has a lower cost of living than Sioux Falls.

Making $50,000 in SF comparable salary in Chicago, IL $59,062(20% diff roughly) for the same job, depending upon industry of course its actually closer to 25-30% when I was in Chicago. Granted this was five years ago.
Price difference in Chicago, IL

Groceries 21%more
Housing 56%more
Utilities 5%less (Only thing labeled as less, and this is less true depending upon where in Chi you live.)
Transportation 24%more
Health Care 13%more
You seem to say that poverty is somehow worse (more apt to "cause" crime) if those around you make more, yet have never shown that to be the case. Poverty is not "worse" in Chicago than in New York City, Dallas or Houston than yet the murder rates are different.
Poverty is worse in Chicago than NYC and Huston.

Chicago poverty level is at 27% as of 2009
NYC poverty level is sitting at 19% as of 2009 (less crime than Chicago)
Dallas poverty level is at 30% as of 2009 (worse crime than Chicago btw)
Houston poverty level is at 27% as of 2009. (worse crime than Chicago)

This is the reason I laugh when people compare Chicago crime rate as somehow the worst in the nation, there are lots of other cities with much higher crime rates and higher poverty rates, IE Detroit(44% poverty rate) than Chicago. You take away the ability for people to lawfully acquire necessities and you will increase the crime rate because poverty also decreases the education level, due not being able to afford the supplies required for schools and making children work as opposed to attend school (high school/college). Which would also increase the drug abuse and not just illegal drugs.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

Because more people want to live in Chicago. Supply of land and housing units vs the demand for them causes the prices to go up. Cost of living in a major city is always higher because of market economics, not because of Democrats. That is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard.

Tell me, when Rudy Giuliani was mayor of New York, wasn't the cost of living still pretty high?

Yeah, theres some truth to that, but there is also some truth to progressive policies, and taxes that drive those costs as well...It was just a thought.
 
Re: WWII Vet, 88, brutally beaten in Spokane, Wash.

Sure, I can pretty easily prove it, here is a washer in Sioux Falls price, pls notice the rebate portion.

Here is the exact same washer in Chicago:


So they give you an additional $125 in rebates in Sioux Falls which is roughly 24% off. On top of that here is a cost of living calculator you can find on CNN Money.
Cost of Living Calculator: Compare the Cost of Living in Two Cities - CNNMoney

They didn't have Rapid City so I had to select Sioux Falls, but Rapid City has a lower cost of living than Sioux Falls.

Making $50,000 in SF comparable salary in Chicago, IL $59,062(20% diff roughly) for the same job, depending upon industry of course its actually closer to 25-30% when I was in Chicago. Granted this was five years ago.


Poverty is worse in Chicago than NYC and Huston.

Chicago poverty level is at 27% as of 2009
NYC poverty level is sitting at 19% as of 2009 (less crime than Chicago)
Dallas poverty level is at 30% as of 2009 (worse crime than Chicago btw)
Houston poverty level is at 27% as of 2009. (worse crime than Chicago)

This is the reason I laugh when people compare Chicago crime rate as somehow the worst in the nation, there are lots of other cities with much higher crime rates and higher poverty rates, IE Detroit(44% poverty rate) than Chicago. You take away the ability for people to lawfully acquire necessities and you will increase the crime rate because poverty also decreases the education level, due not being able to afford the supplies required for schools and making children work as opposed to attend school (high school/college). Which would also increase the drug abuse and not just illegal drugs.

So, just to get this straight, are you saying that crime is excusable as long as one can claim that they are impoverished? I think that is excuse making. IMHO.
 
What's to blame is that most states fund
schools locally. So the places with higher property values have better schools.

State governments can fix that, but don't.

Wrong AGAIN.

It has nothing to do with "better funded " schools.

It's a ridiculous, simplistic one dimensional excuse to blame it on a lack of money.

Higher income neighborhoods are filled with higher educated parents, and FAMILIES, who nurture their children from a young age and through school.

They apply the age old and proven tactics that produce well adjusted and educated adults and they emphasize education, and Higher education.

I live right between two small towns out side of Houston. Freindswood and Pearland. The distinction between the two school districts has nothing to do with money because Pearland has more, they allow large bussinesses to add to their growing revenue.

But Friendswood is a city of Homes, strictly zoned to keep out large bussinesses and it has excellent schools, some of the States best.

There is also Bellaire Hogh School. Bellaire is a small city surrounded by Houston and its school is part of the Houston Independent School District.

Comapre Bellaire's students to another school in HISD, Flemming Jr High. Same School district, different cultures.

Its culture, not money for the millionth time as the neighborhoods that struggle get fed some corrupt variation of the excuse you just made and continue to struggle.
 
Sure, I can pretty easily prove it, here is a washer in
Sioux Falls price, pls notice the rebate
portion.

Here is the exact same washer in Chicago:


So they give you an additional $125 in rebates in Sioux Falls which is roughly 24% off. On top of that here is a cost of living calculator you can find on CNN Money.
Cost of Living Calculator: Compare the Cost of Living in Two Cities - CNNMoney

They didn't have Rapid City so I had to select Sioux Falls, but Rapid City has a lower cost of living than Sioux Falls.

Making $50,000 in SF comparable salary in Chicago, IL $59,062(20% diff roughly) for the same job, depending upon industry of course its actually closer to 25-30% when I was in Chicago. Granted this was five years ago.


Poverty is worse in Chicago than NYC and Huston.

Chicago poverty level is at 27% as of 2009
NYC poverty level is sitting at 19% as of 2009 (less crime than Chicago)
Dallas poverty level is at 30% as of 2009 (worse crime than Chicago btw)
Houston poverty level is at 27% as of 2009. (worse crime than Chicago)

This is the reason I laugh when people compare Chicago crime rate as somehow the worst in the nation, there are lots of other cities with much higher crime rates and higher poverty rates, IE Detroit(44% poverty rate) than Chicago. You take away the ability for people to lawfully acquire necessities and you will increase the crime rate because poverty also decreases the education level, due not being able to afford the supplies required for schools and making children work as opposed to attend school (high school/college). Which would also increase the drug abuse and not just illegal drugs.

Your data poverty is 3 years old and Chicago actually has a higher violent crime rate than Houston.

High crime areas are that way becausr criminals chose to live there, not because something's been "taken away".

The City leaders of Detroit and their thug associates ripped that city off for years and several are still in prison for their multiple crimes.

No one "took away " jobs and opportunities. That cities drove out jobs and opportunities with high taxes and corruption.
 
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