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State of Emergancy declared in Egypt!

zstep18 said:
If we try to do that and it only breeds a next generation of "Islamofascists", then what?
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We should be their weapons dealer. Kinda of like their crack dealer, we sell them the stuff they kill themselves with. After all Johnny Jihad deserves the very best. At confiscatory rates of course. :cool:
 
PirateMk1 said:
I think you are right we should not be selling arms to our friends. But you are wrong about selling arms. We should be selling arms to EVERYBODY that can rub two pennies together. Iran, Russia, North Korea, everybody. We should sell them almost everything we make besides the really nasty stuff like weaponized biologicals, and especially nasty gases, or nukes. Everything else should be fair game to everyone if they can afford it. We should be the worlds arsenal. The Swiss make watches and chocolate, the Germans nice cars, the Chinese cheap plastic junk, the Koreans and Taiwanese electronic stuff, and America makes the best tanks and aircraft carriers and warplanes. If the Russians want aircraft and aircraft carriers from us we should sell them the equipment and vessels. If Johnny Jihad wants his very own F-22 Raptor with optional Premium Audiophile equipment, why should we deny him the very best, hell we ought to throw in a gold plated M-4 carbine in with it as a thank you. If anybody anywhere needs to defend themselves then they should all know to come to Uncle Sam's Munitions and Weapons Warehouse and Manufactory. After all nothing quite says I love you more then the gift of a fine weapon. It really shows you care. :cool:

There absolutely no sarcastic comments in the proceeding section. Really. No really............ Ok maybe. :2razz:
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Got a Romulan BattleCruiser for sale? :lol:

RCL-3_Cover.jpg
 
MMC said:
Got a Romulan BattleCruiser for sale? :lol:

RCL-3_Cover.jpg
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No we don't have those in stock and we are backordered till the year 2350. We do have a lovely slightly used Nimitz class aircraft carrier available and we could start up the F14 line again to provide you a retro look and feel with the modern amenities. You be just like Maverick on Top Gun. We could do it for slightly less then 3 billion. That includes training for your new crew which you supply.
 
apdst said:
You noticed Obama never said a word when the MB was screwing the country over, but now that the MB is geting their asses kicked, he's all miffed.
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Hmm, maybe it had something to do with them being elected.

In any case, your obsessive Obamaphobia aside, there is no good answer here. The MB does have its roots in the countryside and urban poor. Most of the other parties don't speak up for that sector of the population. Regrettably, that sector is also uneducated and prejudiced, with a tendency toward religious extremism and exclusion. The MB leadershihp could have been a exemplar of moderate democratic Islamic rule, that moved the nation forward into tolerance, but instead, it wasted its good will by excluding all other parties and perspectives. So it really lost its mandate such as it is.

It may be that democracy can't work in Egypt without banning the MB, just like Nazism had to be banned to make Germany's post-war democracy work. Democracy is a messy business. It often involves violence in its genesis. We Americans spent 100 years killing each other until we finally got a real democracy, after the Civil War. And even then it took the Civil Rights movement to make that work. So only tea party types would blame Obama for what is going to be a long difficult road to democracy in the Arab world. Thank God Bush or Romney isn't there to muck it up by bombing somebody.
 
head of joaquin said:
Hmm, maybe it had something to do with them being elected.

In any case, your obsessive Obamaphobia aside, there is no good answer here. The MB does have its roots in the countryside and urban poor. Most of the other parties don't speak up for that sector of the population. Regrettably, that sector is also uneducated and prejudiced, with a tendency toward religious extremism and exclusion. The MB leadershihp could have been a exemplar of moderate democratic Islamic rule, that moved the nation forward into tolerance, but instead, it wasted its good will by excluding all other parties and perspectives. So it really lost its mandate such as it is.

It may be that democracy can't work in Egypt without banning the MB, just like Nazism had to be banned to make Germany's post-war democracy work. Democracy is a messy business. It often involves violence in its genesis. We Americans spent 100 years killing each other until we finally got a real democracy, after the Civil War. And even then it took the Civil Rights movement to make that work. So only tea party types would blame Obama for what is going to be a long difficult road to democracy in the Arab world. Thank God Bush or Romney isn't there to muck it up by bombing somebody.
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LOL.

Liberals are always good for laughs. Problems is they make my ribs hurt I laugh so hard at the way they try to twist things around to avoid leadership, avoid blame and avoid what they have already done themselves.

Where's the lecture from Obama on saving innocent lives like we heard on his Libya misadventure. You remember don't you? That's where he said thousands of people would be killed if we didn't get involved, like what's happening in Egypt now. Remember one of the ways we got involved? Bombing Libya.

But hey, what's a few facts. If I tell to many, it will screw up your story.
 
head of joaquin said:
Hmm, maybe it had something to do with them being elected.

In any case, your obsessive Obamaphobia aside, there is no good answer here. The MB does have its roots in the countryside and urban poor. Most of the other parties don't speak up for that sector of the population. Regrettably, that sector is also uneducated and prejudiced, with a tendency toward religious extremism and exclusion. The MB leadershihp could have been a exemplar of moderate democratic Islamic rule, that moved the nation forward into tolerance, but instead, it wasted its good will by excluding all other parties and perspectives. So it really lost its mandate such as it is.

It may be that democracy can't work in Egypt without banning the MB, just like Nazism had to be banned to make Germany's post-war democracy work. Democracy is a messy business. It often involves violence in its genesis. We Americans spent 100 years killing each other until we finally got a real democracy, after the Civil War. And even then it took the Civil Rights movement to make that work. So only tea party types would blame Obama for what is going to be a long difficult road to democracy in the Arab world. Thank God Bush or Romney isn't there to muck it up by bombing somebody.
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Nevermind that after they got elected, they set about installing a dictatorship, right? The Nazis were democratically elected.

Seeing how the MB's acted one elected, there's reason to believe that they rigged the election.
 
Mr X said:
The successful uprising in Tunisia clearly inspired the Egyptian public, and when the Egyptian army decided to side with the people (probably the deciding factor), Mubarak didn't stand a chance.
And you didn't answer my question: Do you think the US should have tried to help Mubarak crush the Egyptian protesters? It seems that you approve of Brutal dictatorships killing their own people if it's in the US interests.
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Oh absolutely but I'm not so naive about foreign policy affairs to think their uprising and Obama's Presidency are disconnected.

I mean we either let Mubarek do what he's been doing for DECADES ....or the Egyptian military will do it for us as we are witnessing now.

Are you starting to learn a little about Foreign Policy and the importance of electing a President who's competent NOW ?
 
What I find interesting in what is going on in Egypt is the people who say it is wrong to oppose the current government because of their Muslim extremism while being fully willing to deride Christians here. We know the Catholic Church did horrible things in the name of expanding their base, why can't we look as the Brotherhood doing the same thing and call it for what it is? Do we need to wait until the body count equals those killed over history in other Christian disputes before we deem it bad? You know, just to be fair? Those who deride Christians for what the Church has done in the past (and holding today's Christians responsible) should be the very first to speak out against the Brotherhood in Egypt.
 
Too bad it had to involve bloodshed. But if it liberates people from religious rule then so be it.
 
Tucker Case said:
Freedom's a bitch.
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I think the majoroty realized that a Government ruled by a radical religious orginization isn't exactly freedom.

Well, them and the military that is
 
apdst said:
We killed off all the facists during WW2. That seemed to have worked purdy good. The Islamofacists aren't going to just go away. Appessement doesn't work.
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Fascists during WW2 were part of armies of nations. There was a clear enemy during WW2. Terrorism has no real army or nation. Therefore, you can't really compare the two.
 
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When will we finally just admit, this is just what they do. Since the Stone Age.
 
For those who are interested, Reuters reported:

Israel is urging the West to stick by Egypt's army in its confrontation with the Muslim Brotherhood, quietly echoing warnings by U.S. regional ally Saudi Arabia against putting pressure on the military-backed government.

"Israel shares its views with the U.S. and some EU (European Union) countries, and those views are to give priority to restoring stability," a senior Israeli official said on Monday.

Concerned Israel quietly backs Egypt's military | Reuters

I believe Israel and Saudi Arabia, both of whom have a far more intimate understanding of Egypt than the U.S. and both of whom have larger interests in Egypt's evolution are suggesting the best course possible. Rather than tilting at windmills of illusions of democracy, the U.S. should also throw its weight behind the development of a stable government with that government being charged with Egypt's future political evolution. If the Muslim Brotherhood wishes to join in a constructive fashion, the door should be open. If not, the U.S. should not try to impose a Muslim Brotherhood role on Egypt. At the same time, the U.S. should refrain from impulsive and reckless calls to sever foreign aid to Egypt.

Egypt is an important American partner. It is a relatively moderate society (witness how the public rose against the Morsi regime when that government tried to consolidate power and take Egypt on a path incompatible with the public's more moderate stances). It has been a reliable partner for peace. It has helped promote stability in a region that has had a lot of instability. The Suez Canal remains an important waterway.
 
donsutherland1 said:
For those who are interested, Reuters reported:

Israel is urging the West to stick by Egypt's army in its confrontation with the Muslim Brotherhood, quietly echoing warnings by U.S. regional ally Saudi Arabia against putting pressure on the military-backed government.

"Israel shares its views with the U.S. and some EU (European Union) countries, and those views are to give priority to restoring stability," a senior Israeli official said on Monday.

Concerned Israel quietly backs Egypt's military | Reuters

I believe Israel and Saudi Arabia, both of whom have a far more intimate understanding of Egypt than the U.S. and both of whom have larger interests in Egypt's evolution are suggesting the best course possible. Rather than tilting at windmills of illusions of democracy, the U.S. should also throw its weight behind the development of a stable government with that government being charged with Egypt's future political evolution. If the Muslim Brotherhood wishes to join in a constructive fashion, the door should be open. If not, the U.S. should not try to impose a Muslim Brotherhood role on Egypt. At the same time, the U.S. should refrain from impulsive and reckless calls to sever foreign aid to Egypt.

Egypt is an important American partner. It is a relatively moderate society (witness how the public rose against the Morsi regime when that government tried to consolidate power and take Egypt on a path incompatible with the public's more moderate stances). It has been a reliable partner for peace. It has helped promote stability in a region that has had a lot of instability. The Suez Canal remains an important waterway.
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Heya DS.....More good news then. Seems our politicians needed that ding to come in from the Saud and Israel. As today they were talking about how our politicians are at odds over funding Egypt.

Still at this time.....there is no reason that we need to be sending funds there. They have made up 12 Billion just from the Saud, Qatar, and the UAE. They are set to get a loan thru the IMF. Plus I do believe France stated they would give out money too. But that was going back to when Sarkosy was running things.
 
zstep18 said:
Fascists during WW2 were part of armies of nations. There was a clear enemy during WW2. Terrorism has no real army or nation. Therefore, you can't really compare the two.
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They became parts of armies of nations. Prior to that, they were nothing more than civilian thugs.

Today, the MB's marched nuns through the streets of Cairo and burned churches. Reminds you of Kristalnact, huh?
 
apdst said:
Nevermind that after they got elected, they set about installing a dictatorship, right? The Nazis were democratically elected.

Seeing how the MB's acted one elected, there's reason to believe that they rigged the election.
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Who said nevermind? That's why Morsi fell -- he ignored the rest of the electorate. I pointed that out.

Jesus, you guys are on autopilot.

Make up your mind -- are you happy that Obama isn't cracking down on the military or are you upset. You tea party types care all over the map.
 
apdst said:
They became parts of armies of nations. Prior to that, they were nothing more than civilian thugs.

Today, the MB's marched nuns through the streets of Cairo and burned churches. Reminds you of Kristalnact, huh?
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So you're happy Obama is cooperating with the Egyptian military. Or not

Make up your tea party mind!
 
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