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Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry' [W:245]

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
Listen, I have first hand experience with this.
Probations, slaps on the wrists, scared straight, apology letters. Total waste of time and money.
Put the onus on parents from the get to to raise their kids right.
No kid is going to be a perfect angel. I was a hellion. But I knew when to pull back from going from raising hell, to crime.
Why? Because my parents raised me right.
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Obviously you didn't read my posts. Putting the responsibility on the parents? Yeah okay, that works. :roll:
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ChrisL said:
Yes, some do act like that and worse.
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So do children. It doesn't necessarily follow that they should be treated the same. We as a society have recognized for a long time that children do not have the same mental capacity to engage in well reasoned thinking. This is the reason why we have age restrictions such as drinking alcohol, gambling and voting. This is why we hold that someone under the age of 18 (in most states) cannot form the legal consent to engage in sex with individuals over the age of 18. We have to be consistent. We either believe this or we don't. It is nothing short of hypocrisy to say that we as a soceity reconize this in cases that we want to and overlook it completely in others. Children either have the mental capacity to make wise and reasoned decisions or they don't.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
So do children. It doesn't necessarily follow that they should be treated the same. We as a society have recognized for a long time that children do not have the same mental capacity to engage in well reasoned thinking. This is the reason why we have age restrictions such as drinking alcohol, gambling and voting. This is why we hold that someone under the age of 18 (in most states) cannot form the legal consent to engage in sex with individuals over the age of 18. We have to be consistent. We either believe this or we don't. It is nothing short of hypocrisy to say that we as a soceity reconize this in cases that we want to and overlook it completely in others. Children either have the mental capacity to make wise and reasoned decisions or they don't.
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I agree with that. You asked if adults acted like that, and I was just answering your question.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ChrisL said:
Obviously you didn't read my posts. Putting the responsibility on the parents? Yeah okay, that works. :roll:
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It does work.
Did you listen to the interview with the father?
Somewhere through the ebonics came out. "its just the way it is".
Not, "my son is very sorry and my wife and I are sorry he did it too". "He has taken responsibilty for his actions and we extend our sympathies to the victim and his family". "I would like to also like to let the victims parents know that we are open to helping with any medical bills, co-pays and treatments their son needs during his recovery".
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
It does work.
Did you listen to the interview with the father?
Somewhere through the ebonics came out. "its just the way it is".
Not, "my son is very sorry and my wife and I are sorry he did it too". "He has taken responsibilty for his actions and we extend our sympathies to the victim and his family". "I would like to also like to let the victims parents know that we are open to helping with any medical bills, co-pays and treatments their son needs during his recovery".
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You must take into account the very strong "cultural" bias against snitching (reporting crime to authorities) to understand that attitutde. I don't agree with that attitutde, but clearly understand its existance and its importance in hindering law enforcement efforts.

''No-snitch'' code keeps shooters on streets as Chicago police fight for public trust
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
Is that the way adults act?
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Yes...

You ever hear of OWS,SDS, Weather Underground (just to name a few)???

I've seen progressive adults throw epic fits..... Of course it's always the democrats/progressives getting violent...
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ttwtt78640 said:
You must take into account the very strong "cultural" bias against snitching (reporting crime to authorities) to understand that attitutde. I don't agree with that attitutde, but clearly understand its existance and its importance in hindering law enforcement efforts.

''No-snitch'' code keeps shooters on streets as Chicago police fight for public trust
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I understand it, but maybe a 13 year old boy not from the hood may not understand it.
 
Holy ****. I've seen this thread but just now read the op.

First time offenders? Unlikely. They appeared to have had practice in a beat down prior to this incident. First time they were caught and punished perhaps.

Sorry? Sorry my ass. Maybe Sorry it easy caught on film.

What the HELL is wrong with kids these days!? And why didn't the bus driver yank that bus over and put a stop to it?
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
Holy ****. I've seen this thread but just now read the op.

First time offenders? Unlikely. They appeared to have had practice in a beat down prior to this incident. First time they were caught and punished perhaps.

Sorry? Sorry my ass. Maybe Sorry it easy caught on film.

What the HELL is wrong with kids these days!? And why didn't the bus driver yank that bus over and put a stop to it?
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Well, 73% of them are being raised by single mothers. Most of them are in poverty. They have the worst scum in the world as male role models -- drug pushers, gang bangers, drug addicts, alcoholics and pimps. They are mostly unsupervised at home. There is no discipline in the schools, and they are not learning anything there. They live in neighborhoods where violence and murder literally exceeds that in Baghdad during the Iraq war, where they are taught every day that life is cheap and if they're disrespected they have the right to exercise extreme prejudice.

The bus drivers are forbidden from intervening. They are supposed to drive the bus to a police station or some such if stuff like that goes down.
 
LowDown said:
Well, 73% of them are being raised by single mothers. Most of them are in poverty. They have the worst scum in the world as male role models -- drug pushers, gang bangers, drug addicts, alcoholics and pimps. They are mostly unsupervised at home. There is no discipline in the schools, and they are not learning anything there. They live in neighborhoods where violence and murder literally exceeds that in Baghdad during the Iraq war, where they are taught every day that life is cheap and if they're disrespected they have the right to exercise extreme prejudice.

The bus drivers are forbidden from intervening. They are supposed to drive the bus to a police station or some such if stuff like that goes down.
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Heh. I'm a single mother (previously married 15 years), I don't live in poverty, and I have an almost 17 year old son and a 15 year old daughter. If either of my kids did something like this? I'd have their hide.

Making excuses for violent behavior is a load if bull. If these kids are minors (and they are) then their "parents" should be held accountable for this. End of story.

I also believe in consequences. You do the crime, you do the time. Where we get into trouble here is when nobody is held accountable for their actions - screwed up living environment or not, that's a fact of life. You screwed up, there are consequences..if consequences are removed, who's doing society and these kids a favor?

We aren't.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
Is that the way adults act?
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I think the point is that there was a larger motive of intimidation here to cover up other criminal enterprises. Clearly this is different in nature to someone doing something most people would consider 'stupid kid stuff", and should receive a larger punishment than probation (which is a bit of a slap on the wrist)
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

Dr. Chuckles said:
I think the point is that there was a larger motive of intimidation here to cover up other criminal enterprises. Clearly this is different in nature to someone doing something most people would consider 'stupid kid stuff", and should receive a larger punishment than probation (which is a bit of a slap on the wrist)
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I don't disagree with you. I don't think that this is a probation worthy case. My point was that I find it foolish and overly hypocritical to treat children as adults when it serves the hunger of the vengeful.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
I don't disagree with you. I don't think that this is a probation worthy case. My point was that I find it foolish and overly hypocritical to treat children as adults when it serves the hunger of the vengeful.
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I can understand it in certain circumstances, but this seems like it's more than manageable by the juvenile court system
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

Tucker Case said:
Typical white person. Gets a little taste of money and success and the next thing you know he's marrying a minority woman and touting her off like she's some sort of status symbol.
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Bwahahahahahaha! That was worthy of the mightiest super villain!
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
I don't disagree with you. I don't think that this is a probation worthy case. My point was that I find it foolish and overly hypocritical to treat children as adults when it serves the hunger of the vengeful.
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Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
I don't disagree with you. I don't think that this is a probation worthy case. My point was that I find it foolish and overly hypocritical to treat children as adults when it serves the hunger of the vengeful.
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I understand what you mean here. My OP was not me saying that they should be tried for vengeful reasons, others I can't speak for, but rather the level of the brutality of the crime they committed. I am sure that these 15 year olds knew right from wrong, and I am sure that the level of beating they were committing showed at the very best IMHO, a criminal negligence, at worst attempted murder. I think it was somewhere in the middle. I don't think they cared if they maimed the boy, or injured him psychologically, or outright disabled him for life. And I think they knew it was wrong. All of this talk about their capacity to understand? I believe they did.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

j-mac said:
I understand what you mean here. My OP was not me saying that they should be tried for vengeful reasons, others I can't speak for, but rather the level of the brutality of the crime they committed. I am sure that these 15 year olds knew right from wrong, and I am sure that the level of beating they were committing showed at the very best IMHO, a criminal negligence, at worst attempted murder. I think it was somewhere in the middle. I don't think they cared if they maimed the boy, or injured him psychologically, or outright disabled him for life. And I think they knew it was wrong. All of this talk about their capacity to understand? I believe they did.
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No one is stating that they didn't understand right from wrong. What I and others are saying is that we as a society recognize that children do not have the same mature mental capacity to make reasoned judgements which is why we don't allow kids to drink alcohol, gamble or vote. It is hypocritical to treat them as if they have mature mental capacity for some things but not others.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
No one is stating that they didn't understand right from wrong. What I and others are saying is that we as a society recognize that children do not have the same mature mental capacity to make reasoned judgements which is why we don't allow kids to drink alcohol, gamble or vote. It is hypocritical to treat them as if they have mature mental capacity for some things but not others.
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That is a side issue. No one is arguing about alcohol, or gambling other than you disney. What I am saying is that "reasoned" is in the eye of the actor, and these three reasoned that they would attack this kid. The fact, or play that they can hide behind the Juvenile system to avoid the consequences for their actions is just another reason why we have the society we have today. IMHO ofcourse.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

j-mac said:
That is a side issue. No one is arguing about alcohol, or gambling other than you disney. What I am saying is that "reasoned" is in the eye of the actor, and these three reasoned that they would attack this kid. The fact, or play that they can hide behind the Juvenile system to avoid the consequences for their actions is just another reason why we have the society we have today. IMHO ofcourse.
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I think the juvenile system should be able to hold minors who are convicted of a violent crime and pose a danger risk longer than would be the case in a normal situation. The system does need to be fixed.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
I understand it, but maybe a 13 year old boy not from the hood may not understand it.
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He certainly does now. ;)
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ChrisL said:
I think the juvenile system should be able to hold minors who are convicted of a violent crime and pose a danger risk longer than would be the case in a normal situation. The system does need to be fixed.
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It is possible that in these boys case it may be possible to turn them around, but while they are incarcerated they also undergo therapy, and do community service in maybe a hospital emergency room, or something to show them the reality of what it is they did to this 13 year old.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ttwtt78640 said:
He certainly does now. ;)
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Hopefully next time, once the first punch in thrown. He will have a blade on him and start whittlin' away on them animals.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

j-mac said:
That is a side issue. No one is arguing about alcohol, or gambling other than you disney. What I am saying is that "reasoned" is in the eye of the actor, and these three reasoned that they would attack this kid. The fact, or play that they can hide behind the Juvenile system to avoid the consequences for their actions is just another reason why we have the society we have today. IMHO ofcourse.
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Sure they are, you just haven't been paying attention. BTW it isn't about drinking or alcohol...it is about our society recognizing that children's brains and judgement therefore are not as developed as adults, so we treat them differently....and they aren't "hiding". The juvenile system has the capacity to deal with these types of behaviors. (although I think the 9 month probation sentence was way to lenient).
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
Hopefully next time, once the first punch in thrown. He will have a blade on him and start whittlin' away on them animals.
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In most states you don't have the right to use deadly force against a non-deadly attack.
 
Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
Sure they are, you just haven't been paying attention. BTW it isn't about drinking or alcohol...it is about our society recognizing that children's brains and judgement therefore are not as developed as adults, so we treat them differently....and they aren't "hiding". The juvenile system has the capacity to deal with these types of behaviors. (although I think the 9 month probation sentence was way to lenient).
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Well, we are learning more and more as the years go on, but at the very least I can agree to say that they should have a solid psychological workup before making the assessment to determine their true understanding at the time of the crime before deciding which way to proceed. And I think we agree that prosecutor is not asking for appropriate punishment in this case.
 
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