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U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law[W:82]

ChrisL said:
Well, whatever loop holes in the law that exist which would allow that to take place should be taken care of as a preventative measure. We can't afford to lose any money to foreign countries.
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Good point. Perhaps we should stop giving Money to foreign countries. I doubt the taxes collected from Croats comes even close to what we are giving away to people who don't much like us anyway.
 
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Morality Games said:
You really should have composed a stronger argument before starting this thread. All I have to do is say, "Make the laws to punish ex-pats" stronger so that leaving is prohibitively expensive.
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Didn't the former Soviet Block try that with a wall and guns?
 
tech30528 said:
Good point. Perhaps we should stop giving Money to foreign countries. I doubt the taxes collected from Croats comes even close to what we are giving away to people who don't much like us anyway.
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That too.
 
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j-mac said:
Keep it up, I hope you get banned. You trash up this site.
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Seriously? Dude, if this guy really is 13 years old, he's hardly trashing up this site. I won't go into it much further because Gina asked us to debate the issue, not each other.

I will say that you can disagree with him all you want, but he's impressed the hell out of me, and I see him as an asset to this site, not a detriment. I'd like to see more people as knowledgable as this guy when they enter into a debate.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

BTW "Croats" was apparently what my auto correct thought I meant by "Expats"
 
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Superfly said:
Seriously? Dude, if this guy really is 13 years old, he's hardly trashing up this site. I won't go into it much further because Gina asked us to debate the issue, not each other.

I will say that you can disagree with him all you want, but he's impressed the hell out of me, and I see him as an asset to this site, not a detriment. I'd like to see more people as knowledgable as this guy when they enter into a debate.
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Well, I won't argue that OC is a smart guy, he is. I've known of him for quite some time, since before we were on this site...That's not the point. It's the approach...There seems to be as of late a few posters in here that go way over the top concerning being 'jerks' in my opinion, and it is wrong. Now some may think that of me, I don't know, obviously OC is not all too happy with me these days...:lol:

And to be clear, in the OP of this thread I was a little knee jerk and threw it up there with a comment that was clear I didn't really read of research the thread topic beforehand, I'll take that ding...But people don't have to be rude, cruel assholes to point that out do they? Heck, I am sure even after this mea culpa, there will be those that still just swoop in to type some the vitriol that drives this sort of thing....OC, and others, as smart as they are, should use that intelligence to spur someone like me to think, and see the flaw they think is there, rather than just constantly displaying arrogance, and disdain for people, you know?

There is a Rule #4 for a reason, although it seems the least enforced...But that's all I'll say on it.

I just hope they know that I don't hold any grudge against them, and just wish that they could lighten up a bit, and cut all of the things they do in here knowingly to insult, and bully people.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

Well, I don't begrudge people who look for ways around unjust or immoral laws. And in this case we are talking about expats. People who live and work outside of the US. They aren't using US schools, or highways, or any other infrastructures.

Why the hell should they have to pay income taxes on money they didn't make in the US and when they aren't residing in the US? Most countries don't do that. Most countries require you pay taxes on income you made IN that country or at least while you are living in that country, using its resources.
 
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iggicee said:
Well, I don't begrudge people who look for ways around unjust or immoral laws. And in this case we are talking about expats. People who live and work outside of the US. They aren't using US schools, or highways, or any other infrastructures.

Why the hell should they have to pay income taxes on money they didn't make in the US and when they aren't residing in the US? Most countries don't do that. Most countries require you pay taxes on income you made IN that country or at least while you are living in that country, using its resources.
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They are still citizens of this country legally, and just because they are over in another country working or whatever doesn't mean they don't have children and spouses living here. :shrug: I used to work in RI and live in MA, and had to pay taxes to both states.
 
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ChrisL said:
They are still citizens of this country legally, and just because they are over in another country working or whatever doesn't mean they don't have children and spouses living here. :shrug: I used to work in RI and live in MA, and had to pay taxes to both states.
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Fair enough. If they have dependents living in the States then they should be responsible for paying taxes on them. But in most cases expats live with their dependents. I am an expat and my wife and kids live with me. I have no moral qualms about paying my US taxes, though, because while I don't live in the US my income is generated in the US. But most fo the expats I know have no ties or assets in the US other than that US passport, which they had to pay for.

I get the frustration with people who are living and working in the US and then hide that money overseas somewhere. Those people are profiting from the American system and should be paying into it accordingly. But your typical expat is not in that category.
 
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iggicee said:
Fair enough. If they have dependents living in the States then they should be responsible for paying taxes on them. But in most cases expats live with their dependents. I am an expat and my wife and kids live with me. I have no moral qualms about paying my US taxes, though, because while I don't live in the US my income is generated in the US. But most fo the expats I know have no ties or assets in the US other than that US passport, which they had to pay for.

I get the frustration with people who are living and working in the US and then hide that money overseas somewhere. Those people are profiting from the American system and should be paying into it accordingly. But your typical expat is not in that category.
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Okay, I can understand your point there, if you and your dependents are living and working outside of the US and not using any services, but to what I bolded above, that definitely needs to be cracked down on.
 
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tech30528 said:
BTW "Croats" was apparently what my auto correct thought I meant by "Expats"
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"Croats" is at least better than "Groats". Gotta give the program credit for that.
 
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Tigger said:
Which they should be as well.
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So nobody that is not a U.S. citizen should ever be able to step foot on U.S. soil for any reason, with or without a visa? Seriously?
 
obvious Child said:
Yeah, the law is a pain in the butt. But so is that $500 BILLION in unpaid taxes every year. We're all paying more taxes or having a higher deficit because people are evading taxation.
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...which is another great argument for why this is more about class warfare and pandering for votes than it is about recovering lost tax revenue.

Best estimates so far is that when all is said and done, this "pain in the butt" legislation will recover 1/10th of 1% of our yearly unpaid tax bill. Of course, you wouldn't know that from all this talk of rich people hiding mountains of wealth in offshore bank accounts. If the Dems wanted to recover tax revenue, they'd be cracking down on middle and upper-middle class citizens stateside.

But again, this is all about votes, not money.
 
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obvious Child said:
It would help if you understood the topic. Sangha just burned you good, it's also funny that you don't get why.

Here's a hint: You post an article that bashes the legislation. Then Sangha asks you if you support it while referencing that the majority of those who this affects enough to leave are the 1%.

So more or less put you between siding with people who have lots of money and lots of money to hide (as evident by the numerous scandals of people evading taxation illegally by using foreign accounts and not disclosing them) or disowning your own argument.

Somehow, I don't think you understand how you're being beaten here. And by Sangha.
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What is wrong with siding with people that have money?

Has the Obama administration so badly warped you mind as to think those people are evil?
 
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PirateMk1 said:
The giving Uncle Sam the finger part was the relevant part. Most people that work outside the States are very individualistic. They don't like being bugged and that's why they hate that law and I believe with good reason. Most of them pay their taxes but they get audited a lot more and its much more hassle to do the taxes. I can see why they give Uncle Sammy baby the finger.
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Why would somebody living and working outside the borders of the US owe taxes to the US?

The money was made in the other country and the taxes were paid to the other country, so why would that income be taxed twice?
 
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Mason66 said:
Why would somebody living and working outside the borders of the US owe taxes to the US?

The money was made in the other country and the taxes were paid to the other country, so why would that income be taxed twice?
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Because if you are a citizen of the U.S., you also pay income taxes here, regardless of where that income is earned. Uncle Sam gets their cut, even if you haven't stepped foot in the country for 20 years.
 
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Cephus said:
So nobody that is not a U.S. citizen should ever be able to step foot on U.S. soil for any reason, with or without a visa? Seriously?
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Only if they are intending to become a US Citizen. In which case they would have to prove they are capable of adding to the society not taking from it. It would also mean breaking ALL ties with their former nation.
 
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Cephus said:
Because if you are a citizen of the U.S., you also pay income taxes here, regardless of where that income is earned. Uncle Sam gets their cut, even if you haven't stepped foot in the country for 20 years.
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That is exactly why people look for ways to avoid those taxes.

When something is blatently unfair, it is not wrong to not pay it.

The US has no claim on any monies made and used outside the US.
 
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Tigger said:
Only if they are intending to become a US Citizen. In which case they would have to prove they are capable of adding to the society not taking from it. It would also mean breaking ALL ties with their former nation.
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So all tourism is ended?

I don't think Disney would be too happy about that. They get a ton of world travelers at their parks.
 
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Why not just violate immigration laws and live as an illegal alien? It works for 12 million or so poor people? I'm sure it will work fine for the rich. Afterall our nation has shown immigration laws don't matter, rules don't matter, we just give amnesty to them!
 
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Mason66 said:
So all tourism is ended?

I don't think Disney would be too happy about that. They get a ton of world travelers at their parks.
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Too bad. We don't need then here and they just cause more trouble than they're worth.
 
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Tigger said:
Only if they are intending to become a US Citizen. In which case they would have to prove they are capable of adding to the society not taking from it. It would also mean breaking ALL ties with their former nation.
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So... nobody can come to the U.S. on vacation, huh? That'll kill the tourism industry.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

Mason66 said:
That is exactly why people look for ways to avoid those taxes.

When something is blatently unfair, it is not wrong to not pay it.

The US has no claim on any monies made and used outside the US.
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Well... I don't know that it's not wrong. It's certainly not wrong to try to change the rules, and I agree they should be changed, but simply ignoring the rules and thinking there will be no negative repercussions from doing so is a bit naive.
 
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Cephus said:
So... nobody can come to the U.S. on vacation, huh? That'll kill the tourism industry.
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Since Americans can't leave the US for vacation either, that should alleviate some of the problem.
 
Re: U.S. Expats Balk at Tax Law

Tigger said:
Since Americans can't leave the US for vacation either, that should alleviate some of the problem.
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Funny, they do all the time. What planet are you living on?
 
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