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Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'

Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

While I do agree that the judge had no business changing the boys' name, what kind of parents in their right mind would name their kid: Messiah. Honestly, this is one of those situations when the only thing I care to say is: I feel sorry for the kid. he had a ****ty start in life and because his parents' are retarded, he won't have it easy later on either.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Hatuey said:
... You do know that Jesus' name wasn't "Jesus" right? It was actually *drum roll please* Yeshua. The name "Jesus" is actually a pretty recent invention.
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No... no it isn't. It doesn't matter if you call it Yeshua or Jesus as long as you mean the same guy. It's like the name Alexander.

Alexander -> English/French/German/a lot of other languages
Aleksandr -> Greek
Oleksandr -> Russian
Alexandrum -> latin
Alejandro -> Spanish.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Rainman05 said:
No... no it isn't.
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Yes, yes it is:

Yeshua (name) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The name ישוע occurs in the Hebrew of the Old Testament at verses Ezra 2:2, 2:6, 2:36, 2:40, 3:2, 3:8, 3:9, 3:10, 3:18, 4:3, 8:33; Nehemiah 3:19, 7:7, 7:11, 7:39, 7:43, 8:7, 8:17, 9:4, 9:5, 11:26, 12:1, 12:7, 12:8, 12:10, 12:24, 12:26; 1 Chronicles 24:11; and 2 Chronicles 31:15, and also in Aramaic at Ezra 5:2. In Nehemiah 8:17 this name refers to Joshua son of Nun, the successor of Moses, as leader of the Israelites. Note that in earlier English (where adaptations of names of Biblical figures were generally based on the Latin Vulgate forms), Yeshua was generally transcribed identically to "Jesus" in English. It was only when the Protestant Bible translators of ca. 1600 went back to the original languages that a distinction between Jesus and Jeshua appeared in English.
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Modern English "Jesus" /ˈdʒiːzəs/ derives from Early Middle English Iesu (attested from the 12th century). The name participated in the Great Vowel Shift in late Middle English (15th century). The letter J was first distinguished from 'I' by the Frenchman Pierre Ramus in the 16th century, but did not become common in Modern English until the 17th century, so that early 17th century works such as the first edition of the King James Version of the Bible (1611) continued to print the name with an I.[22]
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Seriously, this isn't something I made up. "Jesus" as a name is only about 400-500 years old and was created to differentiate "Jesus" from other Yeshuas in the bible.
 
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Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Peter King said:
In the Netherlands people have to register their name at the local authority/city administration and the civil servant who is in charge of that registration can refuse to accept that name and the parent who does not agree with the decision of the civil servant can appeal that decision in front of the judge who can agree with either the city or the parents.

A lot of times the name will be allowed but for example a Dutch motivational speaker who is famous for his loud screaming of TSJAKKA wanted to call his daughter Tsjakkalotte and that was refused by the judge. Also the name Marieke Methadon was refused. Insulting combinations are sometimes also refused. A combination that would spell N.A.Z.I. can be refused. For example, if you call your child Nicholas Anthony Zacharias Isaac Johnson, spelled in short N.A.Z.I. Johnson than that would be refused by the civil servant and the judge.
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That just sounds nuts to me that some civil servant gets to tell you what you can or can not name your child. I sympathize with the judges sentiment but it was totally not her call and it seems pretty arrogant of her to think she could just decree what his name would be.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Hatuey said:
Yes, yes it is:

Yeshua (name) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Seriously, this isn't something I made up.
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No, but I mean, it doesn't matter. I know you're not making it up but it's not quite accurate.

Look. For a long time the only language permitted for sermons in church was Latin because Latin is the language of God. Or so it was said. But you didn't have the printing press back then and slowly but surely, over time, the name got changed because of the culture and language that existed. But it was still just latin.

Now there are 2 scenarios, Western European Catholicism and the Eastern European Orthodox churches. In Orthodoxy, you have 1 pope in each country as it were. There is no central power for all orthodoxy, it's country-dependent. And so it happened that sooner or later, the language of sermons was dropped from just latin, to also include the national language. The restriction was loosened as it were. So you didn't have Yeshua or whatever, you had the same name but translated as properly as possible from Latin to suit the national character. Same thing happened in Catholicism too, but only after pesky people like Martin Luther showed up.
You are talking strictly about the English variation due to Protestantism and say it was a top-down change. It was actually a adaptation to what people were saying all along.

Also. Yeshua. Joshua. Yoshua. Etc. You can't know for sure. There were no ID cards back. All we have is various recordings of his name. and it doesn't matter. It's Jesus for English speakers... Jesus with the funny ` on the e for French, Jesus with the ` on u for Spanish and etc.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

X Factor said:
That just sounds nuts to me that some civil servant gets to tell you what you can or can not name your child. I sympathize with the judges sentiment but it was totally not her call and it seems pretty arrogant of her to think she could just decree what his name would be.
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Dutch law says that civil servants must refuse inappropriate names (like swearwords, commercial names like coca-cola are mostly also seen as inappropriate, a name like Mercedes which is a brand but also a first name will be accepted), also it is not legal for someone who is called Johnson to give his child the first name Johnson, it is not legal to call your child Johnson Johnson.

This is done to protect children from names like Messiah or for example Crack-Pipe.

I always err on the side of caution to protect the child from ridicule and the judge did that, he protected the child from the parents stupidity to give that child such a name.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Rainman05 said:
Also. Yeshua. Joshua. Yoshua. Etc. You can't know for sure.
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We can know for sure it wasn't Jesus for Hebrew speakers or anybody who knew him. So what are we arguing about? What Jesus was named in his time and by the people around him? We know it was a form of Yeshua, Joshua, Yoshua etc. Even Jesus himself wouldn't have answered to that name. Doesn't that tell you a little something about what his name was?
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Hatuey said:
We can know for sure it wasn't Jesus for Hebrew speakers or anybody who knew him. So what are we arguing about? What Jesus was named in his time and by the people around him? We know it was a form of Yeshua, Joshua, Yoshua etc. Even Jesus himself wouldn't have answered to that name. Doesn't that tell you a little something about what his name was?
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It doesn't matter what his name for hebrew speakers was. It matters what his name for latin speakers was and that one started with "I" ( i ). INRI -> IESVS
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Rainman05 said:
It doesn't matter what his name for hebrew speakers was.
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Considering my statement was that his name wasn't Jesus. It was Yoshua, and Jesus was created for the purpose of differentiating him from the other Yeshuas, Yoshuas etc. in the OT/NT, then yes, yes it does.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Hatuey said:
Considering my statement was that his name wasn't Jesus. It was Yoshua, and Jesus was created for the purpose of differentiating him from the other Yeshuas, Yoshuas etc. in the OT/NT, then yes, yes it does.
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Well, his name according to the only source that counts was Iesvs. Since roman 'v' could be an 'u' then we have Iesus.
It's exactly what I said before.

The jews may have called him yoshua. the Romans called him Iesus. The greeks called him something similar to Iesus. As is spread out, people called him differently depending on the language filter. But in Europe, the name that got spread around wasn't the hebrew name, that didn't matter. It was the latin name of Jesus, Iesvs.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Peter King said:
Dutch law says that civil servants must refuse inappropriate names (like swearwords, commercial names like coca-cola are mostly also seen as inappropriate, a name like Mercedes which is a brand but also a first name will be accepted), also it is not legal for someone who is called Johnson to give his child the first name Johnson, it is not legal to call your child Johnson Johnson.

This is done to protect children from names like Messiah or for example Crack-Pipe.

I always err on the side of caution to protect the child from ridicule and the judge did that, he protected the child from the parents stupidity to give that child such a name.
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Mark the hour and date. I actually agree with Peter King. This is a dumb name. I'm not sure I agree with the government having a "list" of names they can refuse. I also think this isn't the most egregious case of people naming their kids dumb ****. However, I do think that such stupidity should be frowned upon. I made a post on this matter a few years ago. Parents having free reign on naming their kids has produced children that will be bullied and harassed for years. Regardless of how supportive a person is of parental rights - there are some things which kids should be sheltered from. Parental stupidity is one of those.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Rainman05 said:
The jews may have called him yoshua It's not a matter of "May", it's a matter of 'they did'. the Romans called him IesusWhich wasn't his name. The greeks called him something similar to IesusWhich wasn't his name. As is spread out, people called him differently depending on the language filter. But in Europe, the name that got spread around wasn't the hebrew name, that didn't matter. It was the latin name of Jesus, Iesvs.Which is not the name he would have answered to or even written down on any official document he'd have to sign at the time
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Again, this isn't that big of an issue. "Jesus" is a relatively modern invention. The original hebrew writings do not differentiate between the Yoshua from the NT and the other Yoshua's from the OT. This was done WAY later. In any case, the point I was trying to make was simple. Calling your kids a name because it makes allusion to another is like painting an apple and eating the paper because of what it depicts and hoping it tastes the same. The math doesn't add up. It's about as stupid as it gets.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Hatuey said:
Again, this isn't that big of an issue. "Jesus" is a relatively modern invention. The original hebrew writings do not differentiate between the Yoshua from the NT and the other Yoshua's from the OT. This was done WAY later. In any case, the point I was trying to make was simple. Calling your kids a name because it makes allusion to another is like painting an apple and eating the paper because of what it depicts and hoping it tastes the same. The math doesn't add up. It's about as stupid as it gets.
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Oh boy. You just can't grasp it. I get what you are saying, but the problem is, you're looking it all wrong.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Rainman05 said:
Oh boy. You just can't grasp it. I get what you are saying, but the problem is, you're looking it all wrong.
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Why are we looking at it wrong, the judge had the chance to change the name to protect the child and he did. For all I care they call it James Messiah Johnson. That would allow the child to leave out the Messiah part if he introduces himself.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Peter King said:
Why are we looking at it wrong, the judge had the chance to change the name to protect the child and he did. For all I care they call it James Messiah Johnson. That would allow the child to leave out the Messiah part if he introduces himself.
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This is my comment in regards to the OP these other comments were part of another conversation.

Rainman05 said:
While I do agree that the judge had no business changing the boys' name, what kind of parents in their right mind would name their kid: Messiah. Honestly, this is one of those situations when the only thing I care to say is: I feel sorry for the kid. he had a ****ty start in life and because his parents' are retarded, he won't have it easy later on either.
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Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

A boy named Messiah....

Messiah names - Messiah baby names

The judge coulda shoulda picked a name that meant the same as Messiah...such as Emmanuel or Shiloh. Shiloh is nice.

But really, chosing a name should be out of the governments jurisdiction unless it's obscene or cause potential physical and mental harm to the child...such as "hitler" or "nazi" or "holocaust" etc. I just don't think Messiah is in that catagory.


Some black names handicap them from getting jobs.....

Can a 'Black' Name Affect Job Prospects? - ABC News
 
Until very recently here in Spain there was a list of approved names and a child could only be registered using names from that list. The list no longer exists, but a notary (registrar) can still refuse to register 'inappropriate' names.
 
Every person should be allowed to legally change their name at age 18 without cost. Some of the names kids get stuck with by their parents...

The judge is a marooon. She should legally change her name to Dumbass.
 
AGENT J said:
if this is true, based on the info i read this judge is mentally insane and retarded
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At the very least she is way overstepping her bounds. Insane, no. Arrogant yes. Stupid yes. Retarded probably.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Moot said:
A boy named Messiah....

Messiah names - Messiah baby names

The judge coulda shoulda picked a name that meant the same as Messiah...such as Emmanuel or Shiloh. Shiloh is nice.

But really, chosing a name should be out of the governments jurisdiction unless it's obscene or cause potential physical and mental harm to the child...such as "hitler" or "nazi" or "holocaust" etc. I just don't think Messiah is in that catagory.


Some black names handicap them from getting jobs.....

Can a 'Black' Name Affect Job Prospects? - ABC News
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Government shouldn't be in the business of choosing any names regardless of what moronic name a parent chooses. Even if they choose a name like Hitler, Nazi, Ayatollah, or just plain old Dumbass. Its none of the governments business. If the child don't like their name they can change it when they reach majority status.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Arbo said:
"The word Messiah is a title and it's a title that has only been earned by one person and that one person is Jesus Christ," Judge Ballew said.
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Totally not her place to decide that for other people. In the United States, the civil courts don't have power to hear issues of religious law. This isn't Iran. If she wants to tell people who the messiah is or isn't, she should leave the bench and start a congregation somewhere down South.
 
Re: Tennessee Judge orders baby's name be changed from 'Messiah'

Peter King said:
Why are we looking at it wrong, the judge had the chance to change the name to protect the child and he did. For all I care they call it James Messiah Johnson. That would allow the child to leave out the Messiah part if he introduces himself.
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Its none of the judges business and further was not contested by either parent. Its the parents purogative to name the child whatever they please however dumb or offensive or debilitating it is.
 
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