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Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

In neighboring and more sensible Iowa, all the money comes in from the entire state. It is then redistributed in a more fair way. They also have open enrollment between neighboring public schools as do other states. All 5 public pensions are in one pool. I was there for 3 years and still wonder.
Conservative said:
The responsibility for your schools is your state and local community, not the taxpayers of another state or local community.
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Noone is asking for another state. Illinois is a "donor" state like most Blue states.
Conservative said:
The responsibility for your schools is your state and local community, not the taxpayers of another state or local community.
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NIMBY said:
Noone is asking for another state. Illinois is a "donor" state like most Blue states.
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Federal tax dollars do not fund school districts, property, sales, and other state taxes do. When a state is called a donor state it relates to Federal taxes not state and local taxes.
 
NIMBY said:
In neighboring and more sensible Iowa, all the money comes in from the entire state. It is then redistributed in a more fair way. They also have open enrollment between neighboring public schools as do other states. All 5 public pensuions are in one pool. I was there for 3 years and still wonder.
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That is the way it is supposed to work however Obama used some of the Stimulus money to bail out union contracts in some states.
 
Are you referring to the $9 Billion that your Gov. Perry used from the Stimulus to balance his budget, helping to cover some of his right-wing social engineering? You do hate Obama with a passion donchu?
Conservative said:
That is the way it is supposed to work however Obama used some of the Stimulus money to bail out union contracts in some states.
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Are you saying that there are no federal dollars coming to school districts?

And how about that public funding of charter schools based on fraudulent grades given to the schools under pressure from above? A pay-off to a donor who owns the charter school.
Conservative said:
Federal tax dollars do not fund school districts, property, sales, and other state taxes do. When a state is called a donor state it relates to Federal taxes not state and local taxes.
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NIMBY said:
Are you referring to the $9 Billion that your Gov. Perry used from the Stimulus to balance his budget, helping to cover some of his right-wing social engineering? You do hate Obama with a passion donchu?
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As usual you bought the leftwing talking points but regardless what exactly would you have the Governor of TX do since the bill was passed, the money was going to be spent, and the taxpayers of TX helped fund that bill?
 
NIMBY said:
Are you saying that there are no federal dollars coming to school districts?

And how about that public funding of charter schools based on fraudulent grades given to the schools under pressure from above? A pay-off to a donor who owns the charter school.
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That isn't what I said, I said that your teachers aren't funded by Federal Tax dollars and it isn't the taxpayers of TX's responsibility to pay for your school district expenses. The Federal Govt. is required to pay for anything they mandate such as No Child Left Behind.
 
Conservative said:
That isn't what I said, I said that your teachers aren't funded by Federal Tax dollars and it isn't the taxpayers of TX's responsibility to pay for your school district expenses. The Federal Govt. is required to pay for anything they mandate such as No Child Left Behind.
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You never heard of an unfunded mandate? You just named one.
 
I did not say TX's respnsibility. School monies from different sources go into one pot, get muddled and moved around. They overlap. Different states do different things with their funding causing different levels of equality. It will always be that way. I had 33 years + 4 retired but still active.
Conservative said:
That isn't what I said, I said that your teachers aren't funded by Federal Tax dollars and it isn't the taxpayers of TX's responsibility to pay for your school district expenses. The Federal Govt. is required to pay for anything they mandate such as No Child Left Behind.
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Good point. But will only open up a new line of argument and revision at whose fault unfunded mandates are. Like so much in Special Education. Neverending argumentaive.
TiredOfLife said:
You never heard of an unfunded mandate? You just named one.
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Conservative said:
Yep, the camels died only to be replaced by other camels. My bet is you would be the first one calling for an increase in defense spending if one of your own was killed by one of those camels. You don't seem to grasp the reality that radical Islam wants you dead therefore whose responsibility is it to prevent that from happening?
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If you say so, Conservative.
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NIMBY said:
Amen to this one too. Along with a farm bill, the electical grid, continuing resolution, debt-ceiling, the end to the repub drama queens in congress and something with immigration.
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What gets me is that these paranoids will spend literally Trillions on imagined "threats", but they are totally blind to the obvious, the crumbling of the nation all around them. They seem to think building bombs will save them while ignoring the decay of everything from Interstate bridges to the electrical grid, from the inner cities to the middle class, from the health and welfare of our youth to their education. Freaking idiots.
 
NIMBY said:
I did not say TX's respnsibility. School monies from different sources go into one pot, get muddled and moved around. They overlap. Different states do different things with their funding causing different levels of equality. It will always be that way. I had 33 years + 4 retired but still active.
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What states do with their money is the citizens of that state's responsibility to control and hold politicians responsible. It is always easier to control a smaller govt. than a large one.
 
polgara said:
When someone sitting in DC can decide how much a doctor may charge, how much time is your doctor going to have to spend with you when they need to see X amount of people per day just to make their overhead?
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Hi polgara.

This is an interesting statement here...If we are to consider Doctors in this country a business, and their daily practice in seeing patients, production. Then we are told constantly that Obamacare is not a socialist take over, because they are not taking over any means of production in this country, therefore we conservatives don't understand socialism, that meme turns to utter BS.

Health care is 1/6th of this nations economy, and by controlling doctors, and micro managing their practices in every aspect from how many patients they see, to how much they can charge, it is totally socialist is it not?
 
calamity said:
What gets me is that these paranoids will spend literally Trillions on imagined "threats", but they are totally blind to the obvious, the crumbling of the nation all around them. They seem to think building bombs will save them while ignoring the decay of everything from Interstate bridges to the electrical grid, from the inner cities to the middle class, from the health and welfare of our youth to their education. Freaking idiots.
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What is amazing is that we have a 17 trillion dollar debt, debt service the 4th largest budget item and people like you still want a large central govt. and give them more money to waste. You certainly don't understand the role of the Federal Govt. and that is sad.
 
j-mac said:
Hi polgara.

This is an interesting statement here...If we are to consider Doctors in this country a business, and their daily practice in seeing patients, production. Then we are told constantly that Obamacare is not a socialist take over, because they are not taking over any means of production in this country, therefore we conservatives don't understand socialism, that meme turns to utter BS.

Health care is 1/6th of this nations economy, and by controlling doctors, and micro managing their practices in every aspect from how many patients they see, to how much they can charge, it is totally socialist is it not?
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Good morning, j-Mac. :2wave:

Sure seems like it to me! :thumbdown: And what is the explanation given by this administration when they are asked why millions of people will still not be covered by insurance? I thought that was the reason our whole health care system was upended in the first place, and replaced with Obamacare! Something doesn't add up here! :confused:

Further, if our health system is so bad, why do leaders of other countries across our planet choose to come to the US for their surgeries and other health care? Europe is much closer to them, and with the "superior" system they have in place in Europe, which BHO is trying to emulate here, you'd expect them to avail themselves of that fine system, wouldn't you? :bs: sarcasm definitely intended here!
 
polgara said:
Good morning, j-Mac. :2wave:

Sure seems like it to me! :thumbdown: And what is the explanation given by this administration when they are asked why millions of people will still not be covered by insurance? I thought that was the reason our whole health care system was upended in the first place, and replaced with Obamacare! Something doesn't add up here! :confused:

Further, if our health system is so bad, why do leaders of other countries across our planet choose to come to the US for their surgeries and other health care? Europe is much closer to them, and with the "superior" system they have in place in Europe, which BHO is trying to emulate here, you'd expect them to avail themselves of that fine system, wouldn't you? :bs: sarcasm definitely intended here!
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Good points as usual Polgara. The answer to one of them I think at present, is Cloward and Piven strategy. I don't think that Obamacare was ever meant to succeed, rather only to break the current system. In the process they could demonize the repubs for its collapse...A highly cynical move, and one that should draw the ire of the country as a whole for exposing just how little liberal/progressives really care about their well being..All that matters to them is the ends.
 
j-mac said:
Good points as usual Polgara. The answer to one of them I think at present, is Cloward and Piven strategy. I don't think that Obamacare was ever meant to succeed, rather only to break the current system. In the process they could demonize the repubs for its collapse...A highly cynical move, and one that should draw the ire of the country as a whole for exposing just how little liberal/progressives really care about their well being..All that matters to them is the ends.
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How many politicians do you believe would ever be elected in this country admitting that they were socialists? Most other than Bernie Sanders realize that would be the kiss of death and thus will implement socialism in incremental steps but the end result is the same. These politicians will appeal to those who solely think with their hearts and believe in all that spending IN THE NAME of compassion. These people are being used to promote a leftwing socialist agenda and the leftwing is winning.
 
Conservative said:
How many politicians do you believe would ever be elected in this country admitting that they were socialists? Most other than Bernie Sanders realize that would be the kiss of death and thus will implement socialism in incremental steps but the end result is the same. These politicians will appeal to those who solely think with their hearts and believe in all that spending IN THE NAME of compassion. These people are being used to promote a leftwing socialist agenda and the leftwing is winning.
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And will continue to win I believe until we as conservatives grow a pair, and start to educate people.
 
Conservative said:
What people don't understand is that access does not assure either service or quality and although it appeals to those who think with their hearts it is totally unattainable to have a universal healthcare program for 312 million Americans in 50 independent states. What this will do is give the govt. more money to waste, I mean spend, on programs that keep and make people dependent just like they have done with SS and Medicare. Although most who support UHC seem to be people with good hearts they seem to lack the brain power to see this is nothing more than a scheme to provide for more spending and more control since quality healthcare and service aren't even being considered.
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Or "invest." Whenever Obama says "invest" I think of a ten year old kid hitting me up for $10 to "invest" in a candy bar. In practice, "access" to UHC seems to mean access to a waiting line.
 
j-mac said:
Good points as usual Polgara. The answer to one of them I think at present, is Cloward and Piven strategy. I don't think that Obamacare was ever meant to succeed, rather only to break the current system. In the process they could demonize the repubs for its collapse...A highly cynical move, and one that should draw the ire of the country as a whole for exposing just how little liberal/progressives really care about their well being..All that matters to them is the ends.
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Excellent post! :thumbs: Health care is 1/6 of our economy, and if and when "single payer" is put in place... which I've read has always been the ultimate goal...the government, and not your doctor, will make the decision on what services you get! Judging from how well government has done in other areas they have involved themselves in, that should alarm people! :afraid: It now appears that Sarah Palin may have hit a nerve with her talk about death panels, which probably explains the demonizing she has been subjected to! Maybe she was right! :scared:
 
Diogenes said:
Or "invest." Whenever Obama says "invest" I think of a ten year old kid hitting me up for $10 to "invest" in a candy bar. In practice, "access" to UHC seems to mean access to a waiting line.
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Exactly right, you cannot give access to 14-30 million more Americans and reduce costs and increase service. Wait times are going up but that doesn't matter to those here with an agenda for it is all about access, never about improving service or quality.
 
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