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Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

None is too absolute, but much of the problems have been asking programs to do more than planned for. The 6% number is a plan, spelled out, and it includes everyone. So, not as much room to move away from.

But take the numbers and tell me why you object to keeping more money?

There are so many exceptions to the plan and so many allowed to opt out of it that the original plans aren't certain to be what you think they are. I am still waiting for you to tell me any Federal Social program that cost what it was supposed to cost and offered better care than individuals can get on their own?

Look, I totally understand you wanting this program to be a success but history says you are wrong. There are almo t 18000 pages of regulations right now, Max Baucus who helped write the bill is now talking about a train wreck, implementation is going to be a disaster which is something you cannot seem to grasp. I am over 65, had to give up my private healthcare program and go on Medicare and let me tell you I hate Medicare after going off my private healthcare program. I guess that isn't a problem for you since you aren't on Medicare therefore it is easy for you to believe what you want to hear.

Your trust is naive at best and if you are wrong this will be the biggest disaster ever to hit this country because it will affect every American. Costs are going to skyrocket and waste, fraud, and abuse will increase dramatically, they always do with govt. initiated social programs. Will the system work? Why do you believe it will?
 
There are so many exceptions to the plan and so many allowed to opt out of it that the original plans aren't certain to be what you think they are. I am still waiting for you to tell me any Federal Social program that cost what it was supposed to cost and offered better care than individuals can get on their own?

Look, I totally understand you wanting this program to be a success but history says you are wrong. There are almo t 18000 pages of regulations right now, Max Baucus who helped write the bill is now talking about a train wreck, implementation is going to be a disaster which is something you cannot seem to grasp. I am over 65, had to give up my private healthcare program and go on Medicare and let me tell you I hate Medicare after going off my private healthcare program. I guess that isn't a problem for you since you aren't on Medicare therefore it is easy for you to believe what you want to hear.

Your trust is naive at best and if you are wrong this will be the biggest disaster ever to hit this country because it will affect every American. Costs are going to skyrocket and waste, fraud, and abuse will increase dramatically, they always do with govt. initiated social programs. Will the system work? Why do you believe it will?

Addressed the one I proposed. Focus.
 
Addressed the one I proposed. Focus.

You proposed what you perceive as the program ignoring the 18000 regulations that have just been written and the reality that Medicare is broke and Medicare isn't the program you think it is as I can attest after being on a private program being forced on Medicare. You are very naive and have no idea what you are talking about. Conceptually is one thing, reality is another. You buy the concept and ignore reality.
 
You proposed what you perceive as the program ignoring the 18000 regulations that have just been written and the reality that Medicare is broke and Medicare isn't the program you think it is as I can attest after being on a private program being forced on Medicare. You are very naive and have no idea what you are talking about. Conceptually is one thing, reality is another. You buy the concept and ignore reality.

Of course. The question was how can we do UHC. Not what the current system was. FOCUS. I often think you use this as a dodge so you don't have to address the point made. If you're not going to discuss this seriously, let me know.
 
LOL.


No, all governments are not statist.

Then it's clear you do not know what statist means.

"thousands of middle men providing no real benefits". My ribs hurt from laughing so hard on that one. When the leftist get us to the single payer that most lied about wanting, "thousands" of government employees sitting around drawing nice big pay checks will be a gross under estimate.

So you refuse to answer the question and instead go off an a tangent to avoid the topic. I see where this is going.

Does anybody in their right mind think the government is going to solve a record sharing problem? No chance. They will make it worse. They always do.

Is that why it's easy to pull up records across state and federal websites now? Because they make it worse? Seems you don't use the internet much these days.

So you again refuse to answer the question and instead go off an a tangent to avoid the topic. I see where this is going.

The government has a proven track record on controlling health care costs? LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL.........

So you refuse to answer the question and instead go off an a tangent to avoid the topic. I see where this is going.

If you read my other posts, you'd realize just how foolish you look.

"backdoor death panels"? Not exactly sure what you mean. But we know Obamacare is upfront about their deathpanel. It make no bones about it.

If you read my other posts, you'd realize just how foolish you look again. You have private insurance? You have a backdoor death panel. To argue otherwise is to argue that healthcare is a infinite resource.
 
Insurance gives you the immediate benefit of piece of mind. That's the primary point of insurance.

No, that's your impression of it. There is no reason why insurance has to do that. Find me a law on the contract law statutes that say that insurance must be immediately available upon payment.

You're going to fail.
 
Of course. The question was how can we do UHC. Not what the current system was. FOCUS. I often think you use this as a dodge so you don't have to address the point made. If you're not going to discuss this seriously, let me know.

No, it is you that miss the point, the govt. is incapable of implementing a UHC program in 50 sovereign states and 312 million Americans. You are the one that needs to focus on reality not that liberal utopia that doesn't exist. You cannot address the failures of Medicare and yet you want to implement a Medicare type program nationwide. How long do you think private insurance companies are going to exist with Obamacare? you sure have a distorted view as to the role of the Federal Govt. and total lack of understanding as to costs and the complexity of implementing a universal anything but more importantly something as private as individual healthcare
 
No, it is you that miss the point, the govt. is incapable of implementing a UHC program in 50 sovereign states and 312 million Americans. You are the one that needs to focus on reality not that liberal utopia that doesn't exist. You cannot address the failures of Medicare and yet you want to implement a Medicare type program nationwide. How long do you think private insurance companies are going to exist with Obamacare? you sure have a distorted view as to the role of the Federal Govt. and total lack of understanding as to costs and the complexity of implementing a universal anything but more importantly something as private as individual healthcare

They are more than capable if committed to do so.

But you're dodging my question. Man up and answer it.
 
They are more than capable if committed to do so.

But you're dodging my question. Man up and answer it.

where has there ever been an example of that where a social program cost what it was supposed to cost and did what it was supposed to do? You have no idea how Medicare works and the problems with it. Going down the road of Obama care is a disaster waiting to happen and history shows it will. Your problem is you cannot admit that you could be wrong and the consequences if you are
 
where has there ever been an example of that where a social program cost what it was supposed to cost and did what it was supposed to do? You have no idea how Medicare works and the problems with it. Going down the road of Obama care is a disaster waiting to happen and history shows it will. Your problem is you cannot admit that you could be wrong and the consequences if you are

You're dancing. Man up and answer.
 
You're dancing. Man up and answer.

Answer what? I already told you I am having my experiences with Medicare now and don't want to subject anyone else to it. You don't seem to grasp the concept that this Federal Govt. has no business implementing a universal healthcare program for 312 million Americans. It is going to be a disaster, now you man up and tell me what happens if you are wrong?
 
Answer what? I already told you I am having my experiences with Medicare now and don't want to subject anyone else to it. You don't seem to grasp the concept that this Federal Govt. has no business implementing a universal healthcare program for 312 million Americans. It is going to be a disaster, now you man up and tell me what happens if you are wrong?

This is where you pretend you don't remember the question. That is weak. Man up, and explain why you wouldn't want more money in pay check.

And what happens if I'm wrong, more people are covered, we have a method for exercising some restraint, and we work to make it even better.
 
I called my plumber and had him install a toilet. It works fine. Not seeing a problem here. No chains. No servitude. The plumber didn't even complain.
You should have just said, "No. I only want what the government has pre-approved." That would have been honest.
 
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You should have just said, "No." I only want what the government has pre-approved." That would have been honest.

So, you think this is convincing? I told you, I have not had any issues doing anything I want to do. Perhaps you've been programed to believe your being abused when you're not. It's just as possible.
 
This is where you pretend you don't remember the question. That is weak. Man up, and explain why you wouldn't want more money in pay check.

And what happens if I'm wrong, more people are covered, we have a method for exercising some restraint, and we work to make it even better.

I don't get a paycheck and if you do I expect you are going to have a long wait to get what you think you are going to get. Why do you believe what you are told when the law is changing almost daily?

If you are wrong, you have dismantled the current healthcare system and a lot of people are going to get hurt. You seem to not understand human behavior and freedom of choice. Doctors aren't going to work under the control or supervision of the Federal Govt. Doubt you would either.
 
So, you think this is convincing? I told you, I have not had any issues doing anything I want to do. Perhaps you've been programed to believe your being abused when you're not. It's just as possible.
I think you are so invested in the tyranny that you enjoy your chains.
 
I think you are so invested in the tyranny that you enjoy your chains.

Still weak. There is no tyranny in my life. None. I mean my wife can be bitchy at times, but its worth the make up sex. But no tyranny. None.
 
Seems those pennies have added up to 17 trillion dollars. All this spending in the name of compassion only brainwashes good people. Tell me why you would give them more money to waste or use for programs other than healthcare? how much of your SS contribution has been wasted on other programs?
Most of those trillions came from defense spending. We spend about $1.5T per year on defense and current wars. That's on about a $4T budget.
 
LOL. I'm sure the left is going to rally around the cause and agree not to file BS environmental lawsuits to stop any and all proposed updated highway system. And an "upgraded electrical grid"? Are you aware of how many lawsuits have to be won just to start a new power plant that has already been approved?

Spending on infrastructure doesn't create jobs. Taxpayers create jobs.

For what purpose a high speed train other than political corruption? It doesn't make economic sense. Once again getting the wacko left not to file lawsuits to halt all those projects except in the smallest of scale would prove next to impossible. Complete waste of time, that idea.

We already spend billions on education. Why aren't they meeting the needs now in math and science? They have plenty of money, that's not the problem.

Everything you have listed has had government build road block after road block up in opposition to. Bigger government is the problem, not the answer.
The Left is just as crazy as the Far Right. Sadly, that's a job machine too: the two crazies fighting each other.
 
Of course. We have no such contract in the US which contains the idea of govt existing to take peoples money to invest for them. Now if you would like to offer me one, then bring up an amendment.

Yeah, government isn't there to provide roads, water, a power grid or anything at all. :roll:

Libertarians really are living in a vacuum.
 
Most of those trillions came from defense spending. We spend about $1.5T per year on defense and current wars. That's on about a $4T budget.

Oh, please stop posting, you are making a fool of yourself. the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars totals were 1.5 trillion dollars over 11 years or less than 150 billion a year but never let those facts get in the way of your opinions. Cite your source and please use Treasury Data for we don't pay debt service on leftwing website lies. The defense Budget was about 700 billion a year out of the 3.0 trillion Bush budgets and supplementals although not part of the budget were part of the deficits. You really need to get some help understanding first the role of the govt and second the line items in that budget.
 
Yeah, government isn't there to provide roads, water, a power grid or anything at all. :roll:

Libertarians really are living in a vacuum.

Which government, Federal, State, Local? Please find out what your taxes fund and who you pay those taxes to?
 
Hardly, though some of those aren't doing all that well. The change in culture heard regular mail more than anything else.

And lots of things in the private sector are in the news for high costs as well. It actually costs a good bit to care for an aging population. Shocking. Just shocking.

There is evidence all around the world that government run medical programs are corrupt, inefficient, slow and more costly. Just open your eyes.

You don't have to go far and you can do the research in English by looking at the mess north of the border. The Supreme Court of Quebec stated waiting lists do not constitute care. Which tells you what? That up to that point government had treated waiting lists as care. What a system... but that's typical of government.
 
Hardly, though some of those aren't doing all that well. The change in culture heard regular mail more than anything else.

And lots of things in the private sector are in the news for high costs as well. It actually costs a good bit to care for an aging population. Shocking. Just shocking.
ROTFLOL... oh yes, some things are increasing, but not near the leaps and bounds ObamaKare is causing healthkare to skyrocket.

Yes, and when government is responsible for all these individuals... you better hope you don't have to go through the ObamaKare DMV.

As I said earlier... I bet most Libs and stated you surely chanted "THIS ISN'T SINGLE PAYER", all the time knowing Obamakare is the green ooze meant to slide under the door towards single payer. The thread below with the "single payer" chorus is from 2.5 years ago. BTW, it was an easy find, I just clicked into your name and "single payer"... BINGO!

Single payer suicide has always been your goal and ObamaKare is a mere stepping stone.
No. But then again, this isn't a single payer system. Remember, I argue we haven't gone far enough to be completely effective.
 
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Oh, please stop posting, you are making a fool of yourself. the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars totals were 1.5 trillion dollars over 11 years or less than 150 billion a year but never let those facts get in the way of your opinions. Cite your source and please use Treasury Data for we don't pay debt service on leftwing website lies. The defense Budget was about 700 billion a year out of the 3.0 trillion Bush budgets and supplementals although not part of the budget were part of the deficits. You really need to get some help understanding first the role of the govt and second the line items in that budget.
Maybe if you bothered being informed, you wouldn't hold such silly worldviews.
All told, the U.S. government spent about $718 billion on defense and international security assistance in 2011 — more than it spent on Medicare. That includes all of the Pentagon’s underlying costs as well as the price tag for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which came to $159 billion in 2011. It also includes arms transfers to foreign governments.
(Note that this figure does not, however, include benefits for veterans, which came to $127 billion in 2011, or about 3.5 percent of the federal budget. If you count those benefits as “defense spending,” then the number goes up significantly.)
U.S. defense spending is expected to have risen in 2012, to about $729 billion, and then is set to fall in 2013 to $716 billion, as spending caps start kicking in.
America’s staggering defense budget, in charts
And, that's not including either war, Homeland security and other nicities.

Budget breakdown for 2012

Defense-related expenditure 2012 Budget request & Mandatory spending[22][23] Calculation[24][25]
DOD spending $707.5 billion Base budget + "Overseas Contingency Operations"
FBI counter-terrorism $2.9 billion At least one-third FBI budget.
International Affairs $5.6–$63.0 billion At minimum, foreign arms sales. At most, entire State budget
Energy Department, defense-related $21.8 billion
Veterans Affairs $70.0 billion
Homeland Security $46.9 billion
NASA, satellites $3.5–$8.7 billion Between 20% and 50% of NASA's total budget
Veterans pensions $54.6 billion
Other defense-related mandatory spending $8.2 billion
Interest on debt incurred in past wars $109.1–$431.5 billion Between 23% and 91% of total interest
Total Spending $1.030–$1.415 trillion
 
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