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Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system[W:1539]

Paschendale said:
What is it with this weird idea that liberals are all broke? Unemployment is substantially lower in red states than in blue states. People who are not selfish or afraid support single payer systems. Decent people who experience good fortune share their fortune with others, not hoard it because they're afraid of other people taking it away. Really dude, you need to stop raging against these fictional liberal boogeymen. There's real people, who are mostly decent folks, who believe in a more egalitarian system. Don't spend all your time arguing against empty chairs. You end up just filling them with things you don't like, with the dark parts of your imagination. Whatever picture you have of liberals in your mind doesn't resemble any real people.
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What boogeymen? They are real people, in power, in washington. They spend their entire year trying to figure out how to take money from people who have it and give it to someone who doesnt. Every single dollar of revenue is now consumed by 'income support'. Most revenue comes from the top 5%, and almost all of it goes to everyone else. The President himself said we have to 'share the wealth'. Not the rich should share their wealth, but we, the people should share it for them.
 
jonny5 said:
But its not a FEDERAL resource. Water is more important than healthcare, so why does the federal govt control healthcare and not water? Why arent cities, counties, states responsible for healthcare of their communities, just like they are for water?
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Good question. Water delivery is always a public utility. And, the fed has done it's share of water regulation in the South via TVA and out West, where they built aqueducts so all those fruit and vegetable farms could thrive.
 
Redress said:
Your "k" fetish is showing.

People wonder why America is so polarized these days, and all we have to do is look at Zimmer's post here to see why. No attempt at grown up discussion, just insults and gratuitous K's.
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If you look beyond those things you do not like in his writing style you know, way down deep, that he is right.

The Progressive counter-revolution against the US Constitution has reached its zenith. From this day forward liberals, progressives, socialists, statists and Marxists may win some battles but not the war.

We have a path forward to roll back the federal leviathan. I am eager for the battles ahead. I relish the day of your defeat.
 
Paschendale said:
Because conservatives want to rewrite history:

Two-thirds of Americans support Medicare-for-all (#3 of 6) - PNHP's Official Blog
Healthcare-NOW! - Another Poll Shows Majority Support for Single-Payer
What do Americans really want for healthcare insurance? Single Payer | If Liz were Queen

I know that the right wing likes to get itself in a frenzy over the socialist boogeyman, but most Americans don't ignore obviously good reforms just because paranoid wingnuts slap a label on it and call it socialist. The rest of the first world calls it common sense. And, of course, to non-frothy wacko types, socialist doesn't mean evil. It just means different.
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No. It means evil.
 
obvious Child said:
This forum would go up in IQ if people started using words based on their actual definitions rather than defining things as they see fit with no regards to their meanings.

I did find it funny how the same people who bash Obama on "socialism" were attacking his proposal to make TRICARE beneficiary fees higher. Obama actively tries to make Socialist medicine less socialist and he's attacked by the same people who decry Obamacare as Socialism. Obama Derangement syndrome is just as prevalent as Bush Derangement syndrome.
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Do you think Obama is pure socialist? Increasing fees is just one more means of punishing the military and those who served. There is room in his evil heart for two bad things at the same time.
 
Helix said:
the average person also doesn't want to pay more at every level of care than anyone else in the world with poorer outcomes. The PPACA is a POS, though. Hopefully we'll enact real reform before we go bankrupt clinging to the false idea that an essential service with inelastic demand can be efficiently delivered by the market.
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Why do you think medical services are essential?

Why do you think the market cannot handle any good or service we want?
 
calamity said:
Good question. Water delivery is always a public utility. And, the fed has done it's share of water regulation in the South via TVA and out West, where they built aqueducts so all those fruit and vegetable farms could thrive.
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Its not always a public utility. In fact, many people dig wells on their own property and provide their own water. Most of us accept that we have to pay whoever supplies the water (city, private, whatever). But not healthcare? That has to be federally controlled, and we have to be forced to get it? Why dont people talk about a constitutional right to water, food, a roof, clothing? These are all more important than healthcare, yet the federal govt doesnt spend a trillion dollars and a century of laws making sure every person in the US has access to a roof.
 
jonny5 said:
Its not always a public utility. In fact, many people dig wells on their own property and provide their own water. Most of us accept that we have to pay whoever supplies the water (city, private, whatever). But not healthcare? That has to be federally controlled, and we have to be forced to get it? Why dont people talk about a constitutional right to water, food, a roof, clothing? These are all more important than healthcare, yet the federal govt doesnt spend a trillion dollars and a century of laws making sure every person in the US has access to a roof.
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Seems most industrial nations do just that. As mentioned, Canada, all of Western Europe, Australia, Japan, and Taiwan have universal government healthcare. We're a bit behind on that issue. But, I suspect we won't be forever.

The weird thing is that when healthcare gets expensive, in old age, we have a single payer system called Medicare. But, for some reason, there is a big push against it for healthier younger people. Makes no sense.
 
calamity said:
Yep. They sure are. I can clearly see positions to the Left and to the Right of those stances.
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You may see some positions clearly to the left, yeah, since they're at the tip of your nose, but to see the ones on the right you need the Hubble.
 
calamity said:
Seems most industrial nations do just that. As mentioned, Canada, all of Western Europe, Australia, Japan, and Taiwan have universal government healthcare. We're a bit behind on that issue. But, I suspect we won't be forever.

The weird thing is that when healthcare gets expensive, in old age, we have a single payer system called Medicare. But, for some reason, there is a big push against it for healthier younger people. Makes no sense.
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But my point was why liberals focus on healthcare specifically? Why is THAT the federal govts role and not everything else?
 
bubbabgone said:
You may see some positions clearly to the left, yeah, since they're at the tip of your nose, but to see the ones on the right you need the Hubble.
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No. That's just your distorted RW vision.
 
jonny5 said:
But my point was why liberals focus on healthcare specifically? Why is THAT the federal govts role and not everything else?
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Why do Right Wingers want us to be more backwards than other industrial nations? That's the real question, IMO.
 
jonny5 said:
But my point was why liberals focus on healthcare specifically? Why is THAT the federal govts role and not everything else?
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Ah ... you employ the Socratic method by asking the question to lead the lefties into acknowledging the truth thereby hoping to make reality dawn on them, all the while knowing the answer yourself.
 
zimmer said:
Anyone with a half brain knew ObamaKare was merely a step towards the Socialists of Amerika Partei's (SAPs) ultimate goal.

It's a prime example of the party of Lies & Deceit. They pass the bill using parliamentary procedures, their Top Hag Frau Pelosi tells us we have to sign it and then read it... Scott Brown wins Dead Kennedy's seat in MA in an effort to stop the idiocy, and now, years later they reveal their real goal.

The SAPs really do reflect their Rotten to the Core Royalty... The Felonious Clintons.
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Wow, who knew you thought so much of Reid. What he says is the gospel. He'll be glad to hear he has your support.

:roll:

It the real world, he's right that it should not be seen as the end of the effort. And while I would strongly support a move toward a single payer system. Tat said, just wanting us to do the right thing doesn't mean we will. So lets not get too hyperbolic. I mean if you can refrain. ;)
 
calamity said:
Why do Right Wingers want us to be more backwards than other industrial nations? That's the real question, IMO.
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Nice dodge, but Ill bit. Because we beleive freedom is more important than anything. Im happy to have that debate if you disagree. See how simple that was? Why cant liberals answer in the same way?
 
bubbabgone said:
Ah ... you employ the Socratic method by asking the question to lead the lefties into acknowledging the truth thereby hoping to make reality dawn on them, all the while knowing the answer yourself.
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Shhhh.
 
jonny5 said:
Nice dodge, but Ill bit. Because we beleive freedom is more important than anything. Im happy to have that debate if you disagree. See how simple that was? Why cant liberals answer in the same way?
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Since we have ne of the highest medical costs and lowest life expectancy rates of any industrialized nation...Freedumb is what it sounds like.
 
I don't think ACA is a solution, but I still have yet to see what conservatives think the solution would be.
 
Misterveritis said:
Why do you think medical services are essential?

Why do you think the market cannot handle any good or service we want?
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Public health. Falls under the same kind of thinking as police and fire.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I don't think ACA is a solution, but I still have yet to see what conservatives think the solution would be.
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We could start by allowing the purchase of health insurance policies across state lines. We could (and should) also do something about worthless tort claims - adopting the rule of Loser Pays would appear to be a good start.
 
calamity said:
Since we have ne of the highest medical costs and
lowest life expectancy rates of any industrialized nation
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...Freedumb is what it sounds like.
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  • I fear you're drawing too simplistic a conclusion.
  • Government run healthcare can't possibly make it any better.
 
Diogenes said:
We could start by allowing the purchase of health insurance policies across state lines. We could (and should) also do something about worthless tort claims - adopting the rule of Loser Pays would appear to be a good start.
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Talk about corporate worship. As if lawsuits weren't already heavily stacked in favor of big business.
 
Diogenes said:
We could start by allowing the purchase of health insurance policies across state lines. We could (and should) also do something about worthless tort claims - adopting the rule of Loser Pays would appear to be a good start.
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Tort is a small issue blown way out of proportion by most people who advocate for its reform.
 
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