• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US unemployment lowest in 4 years

You have no idea what I did for a living but that doesn't stop you from speculating and showing just how little you know or understand.


Well in the past you have claimed to be a district manager. You have boasted you competed against wall mart. BTW you lost that battle if it is true. You also claim to be some kind of grand business titan as well.
 
You do realize this is 2013, but probably not. Further I am really sorry that someone off the street isn't hired as store manager. Those are starting salaries and included in that number are part time employees. If you hate Walmart so much don't go there, I am sure they will miss your business.

If you have more pertinent info please post it. Other wise you are just flapping your lips. The fact still remains a good portion of wall mart employees are paid below poverty wages. And we get to subsidize these people via our tax dollars so that wall mart can run a business.
 
QUOTE Conservative

Why would any private business respond positively to being dictated to by a bureaucrat in D.C. First wages, then what?

What you fail to recognize is that Walmart evaluates employees after 90 days and gives raises to deserving individuals. It isn't business's responsibility to pay what you think they should pay but only what an individual is willing to accept. What makes you an expert on what someone else's living expenses are and who is making those wages?

You don't seem to get it, private business pays its workers what they are willing to accept. Walmart is more than fair to their employees and promotes from within If you are making 8.81 an hour for long then you are overpaid. Most good employees are promoted and make a lot more than that. Many however are second income earners or single individuals. I don't think it is any of your business what a private business pays its workers so if you want to pay workers more start your own business and pay them whatever you want.

When walmart enters a market it brings with it depressed wages, displacing better-paying retail jobs. A study that I have read found also that when wallyworld enters a market it also eliminates similar jobs that pay about 18% more than walmart.

Also total average earnings of retail workers fell by 0.5 to 0.8%.So add it up. Wallyworld adds to those on food stamps, wages go south, yet you’re championing for wallyworld and more foodstamps. Go figure.:roll:
 
Perhaps you are just a fellow traveler...

No. I think Marxist is a good lean.

If you really had something to say you wouldn't need to resort to projecting labels in a lame attempt to categorize and brush off opponents. It's a rather juvenile way of dealing with issues that you lack the capability to respond to. Have a nice day! LOL :)
 

I thought I'd help out with some figures I found for 2013. They are supposedly supplied by Wal-Mart to help in attracting applicants.

This chart shows wage ranges for each job title at Wal-Mart. These show the starting hourly wage (low figure) to highest wage attainable for the position. Note that for the four positions shown in your chart there is some slight increase in starting hourly wages, based on eight years inflation. Not much of an increase though, right?

Walmart.com Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate by Job | PayScale

Seems like in some positions people are getting a decent starting wage? It might until you look at this second chart which computes hourly wages by experience in the job. There you see a starting average of all jobs of $8.81. It takes 1-4 years to go up $0.58 to $9.39; 5 – 9 years before the average goes up to $11.00 (increase of $2.19); and 10 – 19 years before it goes up to $12.13 (increase of $3.32).

Walmart.com Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate by Job | PayScale

Then we see average hourly wages by state which shows the average hourly wage for ALL Wal-Mart employees is $10.46 regardless of time in the job. At 30 hours per week on average a full-time employee earns $16,317.60 a year gross ($13,914.57 after taxes). Part-time at 20 hrs per week earns $10,878.40 gross. The current Poverty Threshold for a single person is $11,945.00 For two people (married) it is $15,374.00.

Walmart.com Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate by Job | PayScale

Conservative is correct about one thing, after 90 days employees get a raise. I understand this is about $0.25 /hr. Wal-Mart also pays (according to this site) 1% over the average rate for such jobs.

HOWEVER: Full-time Wal-Mart employees still work 28 – 30 hour weeks, Part-time less than 21 hours. The above figures don’t account for Wal-Mart’s practice of requiring unpaid “voluntary overtime” for non-scheduled hours, or frequent last-minute reductions in scheduled hours to meet monthly budget limits.

Wal-Mart still instructs their employees on eligibility for Medicaid, Food Stamps, and Welfare services.
 
Last edited:
I thought I'd help out with some figures I found for 2013. They are supposedly supplied by Wal-Mart to help in attracting applicants.

This chart shows wage ranges for each job title at Wal-Mart. These show the starting hourly wage (low figure) to highest wage attainable for the position. Note that for the four positions shown in your chart there is some slight increase in starting hourly wages, based on eight years inflation. Not much of an increase though, right?

Walmart.com Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate by Job | PayScale

Seems like in some positions people are getting a decent starting wage? It might until you look at this second chart which computes hourly wages by experience in the job. There you see a starting average of all jobs of $8.81. It takes 1-4 years to go up $0.58 to $9.39; 5 – 9 years before the average goes up to $11.00 (increase of $2.19); and 10 – 19 years before it goes up to $12.13 (increase of $3.32).

Walmart.com Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate by Job | PayScale

Then we see average hourly wages by state which shows the average hourly wage for ALL Wal-Mart employees is $10.46 regardless of time in the job. At 30 hours per week on average a full-time employee earns $16,317.60 a year gross ($13,914.57 after taxes). Part-time at 20 hrs per week earns $10,878.40 gross. The current Poverty Threshold for a single person is $11,945.00 For two people (married) it is $15,374.00.

Walmart.com Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate by Job | PayScale

Conservative is correct about one thing, after 90 days employees get a raise. I understand this is about $0.25 /hr. Wal-Mart also pays (according to this site) 1% over the average rate for such jobs.

HOWEVER: Full-time Wal-Mart employees still work 28 – 30 hour weeks, Part-time less than 21 hours. The above figures don’t account for Wal-Mart’s practice of requiring unpaid “voluntary overtime” for non-scheduled hours, or frequent last-minute reductions in scheduled hours to meet monthly budget limits.

Wal-Mart still instructs their employees on eligibility for Medicaid, Food Stamps, and Welfare services.

Not sure that this is less an indictment of Wal Mart than it is on our leaders and the type of economy we have. This seems more of a symptom of something broken than a root cause.
 
I'm not a "marxist" nor a communist...

Sure you are, if not in practice, then surely in thought.

I believe in free enterprise and I don't think business should be forced to do anything.

No you don't...That's laughable...If you did, you wouldn't be taking the position against corporations like WalMart.

What I am consistently arguing for is that business people exercise more enlightened self-interest.

What's so "enlightened" about espousing profit as 'evil'? Sounds like boilerplate progressive Marxism to me.

The sort of thing I used to see in America when a person OWNED the factory and had a personal relationship with his employees. Where they were treated like family, and in return they busted ass for their boss. They paid workers enough so they could buy other goods and those other factory workers could earn a living and buy your bosses goods.

The 50s ended long ago.

Corporations have made it impersonal, a mere numbers game. To satisfy the faceless stockholders who have no more stake in the business than their monetary investment and who therefore only care about maximum return on that investment, business managers act only on that imperative.

These "faceless stockholders" that you demonize here are you and me. You know that right? They are also retirees that are trying to make the fruits of their life's work stretch to sustain them today.

I thought you said you were 'free market', but with this statement you don't seem to understand how that works.

So close local factories, reopen new ones overseas, outsource jobs, then open American outlet stores and pay $10 per hour but only let "full time" employees work 28 hour weeks...that's your American dream?

What's your alternative? You have so much crammed in here that is convoluted, and skews the picture of why we have lost manufacturing here in America to cheaper labor overseas, that it is truly mind boggling....

Meanwhile your $14.00 shirt was made by a Bangladeshi employee who earned $0.18 an hour for a 12 - 15 hour workday and lives in squalor on starvation rations. That's what you want American workers to return to? Hell, if $0.18 cents had the same value here as it did back when you could buy a good horse for $20, I might be willing to work for that wage too. Sheesh.

Big mistake you make here is in applying our standard to Bangladeshi life. Companies, and trade is Global today. Liberals, and Marxists wanted that in the New Deal days because it was so "unfair that small countries couldn't compete".... Now you have done it....And you still aren't happy....Why? I'll tell you, because in your short sighted and uneducated manner of addressing the disparities of income for average people from one land to another, you failed to want to raise all boats, but rather in your disgust of America, you just wanted to teach your own country a lesson, and destroy the standard of living in this country.

You can hide behind what ever you wish in lengthy posts that swirl around and try to hide the fact of who you are, but in the end, it is really right there in black and white.
 
If you have more pertinent info please post it. Other wise you are just flapping your lips. The fact still remains a good portion of wall mart employees are paid below poverty wages. And we get to subsidize these people via our tax dollars so that wall mart can run a business.

I have posted pertinent information but you ignored it. I am absolutely shocked that you ran your own business. What exactly is a livable wage? A livable wage is defined by the individual not the govt. Poverty levels are defined by the individual not the govt. You believe a single individual living at home has the same livable wage as a couple with a home? Do you think the poverty level the govt. sets is the same for each individual?

Further it doesn't seem that Walmart is having any trouble getting employees and never has had trouble. Looks to me like you are a typical liberal who knows what is best for everyone else and supports the massive big central govt. Obama is building. Because our tax dollars fund subsidizes support for individuals doesn't mean those subsidy levels are set at the right wage for the right individual. Why aren't we means testing govt. support for welfare programs?

Greed to a liberal only seems to exist when it involves individuals in the private sector and not the public sector. Typical liberalism, thinking with your heart and not your brain.
 
When walmart enters a market it brings with it depressed wages, displacing better-paying retail jobs. A study that I have read found also that when wallyworld enters a market it also eliminates similar jobs that pay about 18% more than walmart.

Also total average earnings of retail workers fell by 0.5 to 0.8%.So add it up. Wallyworld adds to those on food stamps, wages go south, yet you’re championing for wallyworld and more foodstamps. Go figure.:roll:

Is that right? What exactly did those retail businesses pay their employees? Your studies are skewed yet you buy them. People flock to Walmart for jobs, why? What chances for advancement do you get at a small retail facility? Employees at Walmart get education assistance, benefits, and the opportunity to run their own store.

Don't shop at Walmart if you don't agree with their policies. Millions of Americans disagree with you.
 
Sure you are, if not in practice, then surely in thought.

I see, well if that's your measure I'll just label you a Nazi and dismiss your position as Fascist. You don't have to be one in practice, I'll just project the thoughts onto you. Wow. That was easy, now nothing you say has any value! Sweet! Have a nice day. :)
 
I see, well if that's your measure I'll just label you a Nazi and dismiss your position as Fascist. You don't have to be one in practice, I'll just project the thoughts onto you. Wow. That was easy, now nothing you say has any value! Sweet! Have a nice day. :)

j-mac nailed it and this is the best you can do. Look up the definition of Marxist and see might just see your picture there. You willingly buy the rhetoric that private business isn't paying its employees enough yet have offered no solutions to having them pay more. You see it is easy for someone with no investment in the business to demonize those who do. What should the average salary be for a cashier at Walmart? Why to people like broad brush every issue and put all employees into the same basket? Why is it people like you buy leftwing rhetoric that would deny an individual a chance for advancement in a major world corporation? Why is it that people like you who have never run anything in your life have such a warped view of private business?

You see people like you buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. Walmart gives all its employees a chance for advancement, benefits including healthcare, tuition reimbursement, 401k's, dental, and more importantly a career path including advancement. Walmart is always judged by people like you on a govt. scale and on their starting wage not their ending wages or their success in developing people. This is a sad state of affairs in this country today.
 
If you have more pertinent info please post it. Other wise you are just flapping your lips. The fact still remains a good portion of wall mart employees are paid below poverty wages. And we get to subsidize these people via our tax dollars so that wall mart can run a business.

Take it from the Walmart site itself and stop looking at starting pay as an example of the future at Walmart. The opportunity to make between 50,000 and 170,000 a year is a huge opportunity for someone who lacks the education but does have the work ethic and initiative to get ahead. Seems that is a lost art for people like you

Working At Walmart - Walmart Careers
 
j-mac nailed it and this is the best you can do. Look up the definition of Marxist and see might just see your picture there. You willingly buy the rhetoric that private business isn't paying its employees enough yet have offered no solutions to having them pay more. You see it is easy for someone with no investment in the business to demonize those who do. What should the average salary be for a cashier at Walmart? Why to people like broad brush every issue and put all employees into the same basket? Why is it people like you buy leftwing rhetoric that would deny an individual a chance for advancement in a major world corporation? Why is it that people like you who have never run anything in your life have such a warped view of private business?

You see people like you buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. Walmart gives all its employees a chance for advancement, benefits including healthcare, tuition reimbursement, 401k's, dental, and more importantly a career path including advancement. Walmart is always judged by people like you on a govt. scale and on their starting wage not their ending wages or their success in developing people. This is a sad state of affairs in this country today.

No, he didn't "nail it." Where in ANY of my posts other than "minimum wage" issues have I ever stated a business should be compelled to do anything? Or that government interference in business practices should be condoned? NO WHERE! :screwy

I have consistently argued for "enlightened self-interest," meaning a business should recognize when it's practices may be extremely profitable, but are economically detrimental to their own society in the long run. By pointing out the detriments I was attempting to show this was true. By warning of the possible repercussions, based on a knowledge of HISTORY, I was providing valid warnings of why it would be best to take voluntary action rather than create situations that lead to such threats.

Just because you refuse to accept realities and hide behind what you think justifies rapacious business practices does not support placing negative labels on opponents in order to dismiss their arguments as unworthy of consideration. In all honesty, while I was being facetiously sarcastic with j-mac, that is exactly one of the tricks used by the Nazi regime during it's period in power and a favorite tactic of totalitarians of all colors. :naughty

I did not use "rhetoric" I provided FACTS! This is your response? :shrug: Geez.
 
Last edited:
No, he didn't "nail it." Where in ANY of my posts other that "minimum wage" issues have I ever stated a business should be compelled to do anything? Or that government interference in business practices should be condoned? NO WHERE!

I have consistently argued for "enlightened self-interest," meaning a business recognize it's practices may be extremely profitable, but are economically detrimental to their own society in the long run. By pointing out the detriments I was attempting to show this was true. By warning of the possible repercussion, based on a knowledge of HISTORY, I was providing valid warnings of why it would be best to take voluntary action rather than create situations that lead to such threats.

Just because you refuse to accept realities and hide behind what you think justifies rapacious business practices does not give you the right to place negative labels on opponents in order to dismiss their arguments as unworthy of consideration. In all honesty, while I was being facetiously sarcastic with j-mac, that is exactly one of the tricks used by the Nazi regime during it's period in power and a favorite tactic of totalitarians of all colors.

I did not use "rhetoric" I provided FACTS! This is your response? Geez.

I have provided facts, your so called facts are selective and distorted. you look at the initial hiring and starting wages and project that out to everyone else. Not once have I heard you talk about the benefits Walmart provides to the community in terms of taxes, community involvement/support, and job base. Not once have I heard you talk about career opportunities for people with limited education background and not once have I heard you talk about the benefits Walmart offers. People like you have such short term live for today attitudes that you ignore the long term benefits that are available to Walmart employees.

Working At Walmart - Walmart Careers
 
I have provided facts, your so called facts are selective and distorted. you look at the initial hiring and starting wages and project that out to everyone else. Not once have I heard you talk about the benefits Walmart provides to the community in terms of taxes, community involvement/support, and job base. Not once have I heard you talk about career opportunities for people with limited education background and not once have I heard you talk about the benefits Walmart offers. People like you have such short term live for today attitudes that you ignore the long term benefits that are available to Walmart employees.

Working At Walmart - Walmart Careers

Because there ARE no benefits aside from "always low prices." Since I understand you are a retiree on a fixed pension then of course NOW Wal-Mart gives YOU advantages by stretching your buying power. I never said that people aren't consistently short-sighted in their actions. Hence my emphasis on "short-term benefits" as opposed to long-term detriments.
 
Because there ARE no benefits aside from "always low prices." Since I understand you are a retiree on a fixed pension then of course NOW Wal-Mart gives YOU advantages by stretching your buying power. I never said that people aren't consistently short-sighted in their actions. Hence my emphasis on "short-term benefits" as opposed to long-term detriments.

I never worked for Walmart but yes I have a pension, 401K, and SS which I paid into. You are the one short sighted and there is no such thing as a short term benefit.
 
Because there
ARE no benefits aside from "always low prices." Since I understand you are a retiree on a fixed pension then of course NOW Wal-Mart gives YOU advantages by stretching your buying power. I never said that people aren't consistently short-sighted in their actions. Hence my emphasis on "short-term benefits" as opposed to long-term detriments.


WallMart has a profit sharing plan. A truck driver who drove for them after 17 years recieved a check from them for over 750,000.
 
I never worked for Walmart but yes I have a pension, 401K, and SS which I paid into. You are the one short sighted and there is no such thing as a short term benefit.

If you haven't been following the arguments I'm not going to repeat them. I will say that it seems to me for an person who has lived long enough to retire in our society you seem to have a weak grasp of history. What's the old saying about it repeating itself?
 
WallMart has a profit sharing plan. A truck driver who drove for them after 17 years recieved a check from them for over 750,000.

Wow, that anecdotal story certainly makes up for all the people who worked there for years and still need food stamps and medicaid. All the lawsuits for working unpaid overtime under threat of job loss. All the shortened hours and other wage saving measures. I'm convinced!!

Wal-Mart is the savior of America!!! Where do I sign up? :)
 
If you haven't been following the arguments I'm not going to repeat them. I will say that it seems to me for an person who has lived long enough to retire in our society you seem to have a weak grasp of history. What's the old saying about it repeating itself?

LOL, I hope I am around when you learn that you never knew as much as you thought you know now. My grasp of history is quite good just like my grasp of reality. One of these days you are going to realize it and I hope I am around to see that lightbulb go off in that head of yours.

You see, we have a 17 trillion dollar debt today, a 3.77 trillion dollar federal govt, 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, stagnant economic growth, record numbers on food stamps, record numbers dependent on the taxpayers and you demonizing Walmart? You should be demonizing Federal Greed, not Walmart
 
Wow, that anecdotal story certainly makes up for all the people who worked there for years and still need food stamps and medicaid. All the lawsuits for working unpaid overtime under threat of job loss. All the shortened hours and other wage saving measures. I'm convinced!!

Wal-Mart is the savior of America!!! Where do I sign up? :)

You can apply at any Walmart store in the nation and get in line behind the hundreds that actually want to work for Walmart

You see you want to always point out the negatives but a company with over 2 million employees is always going to have some malcontents as well as some bad managers. You never destroy the company because of a few just like you don't use a few examples like you have to demonize management. The good still outweighs the bad and always will.
 
LOL, I hope I am around when you learn that you never knew as much as you thought you know now. My grasp of history is quite good just like my grasp of reality. One of these days you are going to realize it and I hope I am around to see that lightbulb go off in that head of yours.

You see, we have a 17 trillion dollar debt today, a 3.77 trillion dollar federal govt, 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, stagnant economic growth, record numbers on food stamps, record numbers dependent on the taxpayers and you demonizing Walmart? You should be demonizing Federal Greed, not Walmart

The Federal government is not responsible for joblessness...unless you are holding them responsible for all those fair business practice laws that were passed as a result of sweat-shop, unsafe mining, and dangerous factory conditions as the primary cause of business flight overseas...where they can establish unsafe factories and work people long hours for short pay? In that case you'd be correct. :)

The top 4,000 citizens control 90% of the wealth. They can afford to keep factories operating here in the USA and still make decent profits. I keep hearing so much about how little the owners of Wal-Mart donate to charity and how much people like Bill Gates and others do. Well I say we don't need "charity," we need reinvestment in Industry! We need a stable currency to significantly reduce inflation so that workers don't need to push for higher wages, and if they did employers could argue "on what personal contribution to productivity levels have you made individually?" Fiat currency is B/S!

I am also concerned with all this government deficit spending, copied by citizen deficit spending (credit cards, mortgages, etc.). But it is the PRIVATE SECTOR that determines how many jobs we have in this country, not government. The PRIVATE SECTOR controls Congress, we citizens just get to vote on who they select every few years.

So hell yes, I encourage the PRIVATE SECTOR to exercise a little enlightened self-interest when it comes to business practices. How much clearer can I be?
 
Captain Adverse;1062164236]The Federal government is not responsible for joblessness...unless you are holding them responsible for all those fair business practice laws that were passed as a result of sweat-shop, unsafe mining, and dangerous factory conditions as the primary cause of business flight overseas...where they can establish unsafe factories and work people long hours for short pay? In that case you'd be correct. :)

wrong, govt economic policies affect how a private business person spends their money. You are so smart start your own business and find out if the govt. is responsible for any of your success or failure. Like all liberal programs they outlive their usefulness. You keep talking about business greed, when are you going to hold your govt. accountable for the same problem?

The top 4,000 citizens control 90% of the wealth. They can afford to keep factories operating here in the USA and still make decent profits. I keep hearing so much about how little the owners of Wal-Mart donate to charity and how much people like Bill Gates and others do. Well I say we don't need "charity," we need reinvestment in Industry! We need a stable currency to significantly reduce inflation so that workers don't need to push for higher wages, and if they did employers could argue "on what personal contribution to productivity levels have you made individually?" Fiat currency is B/S!

That is your opinion. How did any rich person make you poorer or affect your ability to become rich? Again, you totally ignore govt. greed because in your world spending in the name of compassion is always better than generating compassionate results.

I am also concerned with all this government deficit spending, copied by citizen deficit spending (credit cards, mortgages, etc.). But it is the PRIVATE SECTOR that determines how many jobs we have in this country, not government. The PRIVATE SECTOR controls Congress, we citizens just get to vote on who they select every few years.

So who made you a parent of someone else. The private sector continues to elect Congress so why the outrage over who they select? This past election kept things exactly the same.

So hell yes, I encourage the PRIVATE SECTOR to exercise a little enlightened self-interest when it comes to business practices. How much clearer can I be?

Then quit complaining about what a private entity pays its employees
 
Back
Top Bottom