• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

Links to what? Conspiracy blogs? looool

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH lol

This is Ad hominem circumstantial. Yet another logical fallacy

And yes, my signature is from 1984.
 
lol

NONE OF THAT IS TRUE

That's conspiracy theory, we're talking about real life. Peter Bergen and Steve Coll have written tremendous books (plural, for both) about bin Laden, I suggest you read them.

Well.....get back to me when you read those CIA docs that have been unclassified. As well as from those that were involved.

Lets see.....on one hand. The major players in the game all say he was. Then the MSMedia breaks the story along with MSNBC. Then CNN jumps on the bandwagon. Most others all across the World. Including Bin Laden's own Family members.

But Bergen and Coll say otherwise. Along with one of Osama's Brothers.

Looks Like I will be sticking with those that have the facts down. ;)
 
Katsung? Hello, katsung.

I mean, I tried with you til I realized you didn't even know the four points (that you argued) that I pointed out. What more is there to do? How can you talk about NASA to someone that doesn't think the moon landing occurred? You don't. You laugh at them, you mock them, you have fun at their expense. But you don't waste time with them.

You didn't try, your posts have been series of emotional tantrum and personal attack. You post a graph that doesn't show wealth disparity and try to claim it show wealth disparity. You overlook any point made just so you can post some lol message and insult people.

Try addressing the issue instead of the person. Grow up and learn how to make proper argument.
 
Well.....get back to me when you read those CIA docs that have been unclassified. As well as from those that were involved.

Lets see.....on one hand. The major players in the game all say he was.

lol, no they don't, and your link didn't say he was. Why did you even post that when it didn't say what you said it did?

Then the MSMedia breaks the story along with MSNBC. Then CNN jumps on the bandwagon. Most others all across the World. Including Bin Laden's own Family members.

None of that is true. Here ya go, friendo:

The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century: Steve Coll: 9781616792527: Amazon.com: Books
Amazon.com: The Osama bin Laden I Know: An Oral History of al Qaeda's Leader: Peter Bergen: Books
Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001: Steve Coll: 9780143034667: Amazon.com: Books
Amazon.com: Manhunt: The Ten-Year Search for Bin Laden from 9/11 to Abbottabad (9780307955883): Peter L. Bergen: Books

Read just one. That's all. Just one. lol "the major players in the game all say he was". No, they don't. You don't understand that the mujahideen and the Arab fighters of Azzam's Services Office were two different things, that's why you're confused. READ A BOOK.

Looks Like I will be sticking with those that have the facts down. ;)

lol, no you won't. hahahahah
 
You didn't try, your posts have been series of emotional tantrum and personal attack. You post a graph that doesn't show wealth disparity and try to claim it show wealth disparity. You overlook any point made just so you can post some lol message and insult people.

Try addressing the issue instead of the person. Grow up and learn how to make proper argument.

The graph wasn't about wealth disparity. You're the only one talking about it. All I did was tell you the graph included the Gilded Age, when wealth disparity was worse. I still don't care about it, that wasn't what the discussion was about. But I guess we now have five things that you talked about that didn't understand. Why would someone continue to talk with someone like that?
 
Deflection and emotional outburst. This has nothing to do with what was presented. You have offered no points against what was listed and linked, nothing to support your claims. You have engaged in nothing but personal attack and tantrum.

Stop crying and being emotional. You're so emotional. Control your temper.

(See, there I'm mocking you: it's easy to call someone emotional when you want to harm their argument, but it isn't really mature. Secondly, the point is to show you that not all sources are created equally. I can find a source that says lizard men are real, that doesn't make it true. If someone were to supply me with that link, I would just laugh at them. I hope you see the point).

Now stop whining and put on your big boy pants. Why did you talk about crime in South Africa when the discussion was about nuclear threats? Why did you do that?
 
lol, no they don't, and your link didn't say he was. Why did you even post that when it didn't say what you said it did?



None of that is true. Here ya go, friendo:

The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century: Steve Coll: 9781616792527: Amazon.com: Books
Amazon.com: The Osama bin Laden I Know: An Oral History of al Qaeda's Leader: Peter Bergen: Books
Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001: Steve Coll: 9780143034667: Amazon.com: Books
Amazon.com: Manhunt: The Ten-Year Search for Bin Laden from 9/11 to Abbottabad (9780307955883): Peter L. Bergen: Books

Read just one. That's all. Just one. lol "the major players in the game all say he was". No, they don't. You don't understand that the mujahideen and the Arab fighters of Azzam's Services Office were two different things, that's why you're confused. READ A BOOK.



lol, no you won't. hahahahah



Looks like I will......as History sure isn't carrying much of what Bergen, Coll, and Osama's brother has to say. Like I stated before. Get back to me when ya get done reading from who had to learn about who and was trying to figure out who and all that he said she said bull****. Then try reading some other credible sources. :roll:
 
The graph wasn't about wealth disparity. You're the only one talking about it. All I did was tell you the graph included the Gilded Age, when wealth disparity was worse. I still don't care about it, that wasn't what the discussion was about. But I guess we now have five things that you talked about that didn't understand. Why would someone continue to talk with someone like that?

No, I was citing wealth disparity and you presented that graph as proof that disparity was greater in the gilded age, but it didn't show that at all.

So besides insult and emotional outburst and logical fallacy, what have you actually presented here?
 
But they do acknowledge somethings Sherman......which if all on each side of the coin is admitting to it. Then the facts are true. Even Pakistan's Zia ul Haq stated Osama bin laden was with Hekmetyar's faction and was a loyal and trusted friend.

Mujaheddin

In April 1978, the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) seized power in Afghanistan in reaction to a crackdown against the party by that country's repressive government.

The PDPA was committed to a radical land reform that favoured the peasants, trade union rights, an expansion of education and social services, equality for women and the separation of church and state. The PDPA also supported strengthening Afghanistan's relationship with the Soviet Union.

Such policies enraged the wealthy semi-feudal landlords, the Muslim religious establishment (many mullahs were also big landlords) and the tribal chiefs. They immediately began organizing resistance to the government's progressive policies, under the guise of defending Islam.

Washington, fearing the spread of Soviet influence (and worse the new government's radical example) to its allies in Pakistan, Iran and the Gulf states, immediately offered support to the Afghan mujaheddin, as the “contra” force was known.

Following an internal PDPA power struggle in December 1979 which toppled Afghanistan's leader, thousands of Soviet troops entered the country to prevent the new government's fall. This only galvanized the disparate fundamentalist factions. Their reactionary jihad now gained legitimacy as a “national liberation” struggle in the eyes of many Afghans.

The Soviet Union was eventually to withdraw from Afghanistan in 1989 and the mujaheddin captured the capital, Kabul, in 1992.

Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.

Washington's policy in Afghanistan was shaped by US President Jimmy Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and was continued by his successors. His plan went far beyond simply forcing Soviet troops to withdraw; rather it aimed to foster an international movement to spread Islamic fanaticism into the Muslim Central Asian Soviet republics to destabilize the Soviet Union.

Brzezinski's grand plan coincided with Pakistan military dictator General Zia ul-Haq's own ambitions to dominate the region. US-run Radio Liberty and Radio Free Europe beamed Islamic fundamentalist tirades across Central Asia (while paradoxically denouncing the “Islamic revolution” that toppled the pro-US Shah of Iran in 1979).

Washington's favoured mujaheddin faction was one of the most extreme, led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. The West's distaste for terrorism did not apply to this unsavory “freedom fighter”. Hekmatyar was notorious in the 1970's for throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil.

After the mujaheddin took Kabul in 1992, Hekmatyar's forces rained US-supplied missiles and rockets on that city — killing at least 2000 civilians — until the new government agreed to give him the post of prime minister. Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction.

Hekmatyar was also infamous for his side trade in the cultivation and trafficking in opium. Backing of the mujaheddin from the CIA coincided with a boom in the drug business. Within two years, the Afghanistan-Pakistan border was the world's single largest source of heroin, supplying 60% of US drug users.

In 1995, the former director of the CIA's operation in Afghanistan was unrepentant about the explosion in the flow of drugs: “Our main mission was to do as much damage as possible to the Soviets... There was a fallout in terms of drugs, yes. But the main objective was accomplished. The Soviets left Afghanistan.”.....snip~

Nothing in that has anything to do with Bin Laden, and no Hekmatyar was not our favorite. Rabbani and Massoud were.
 
Looks like I will......as History sure isn't carrying much of what Bergen, Coll, and Osama's brother has to say. Like I stated before. Get back to me when ya get done reading from who had to learn about who and was trying to figure out who and all that he said she said bull****. Then try reading some other credible sources. :roll:

lol wow that's irony. I hope you do some research about these years someday. You talk like you have a real interest in them, so you should read about them some!
 
Stop crying and being emotional. You're so emotional. Control your temper.

(See, there I'm mocking you: it's easy to call someone emotional when you want to harm their argument, but it isn't really mature. Secondly, the point is to show you that not all sources are created equally. I can find a source that says lizard men are real, that doesn't make it true. If someone were to supply me with that link, I would just laugh at them. I hope you see the point).

Now stop whining and put on your big boy pants. Why did you talk about crime in South Africa when the discussion was about nuclear threats? Why did you do that?

Why did you present a graph that didn't talk about wealth disparity when I was talking about wealth disparity.

You need to calm down and control your temper. Instead of being emotional and insulting people, just address points and cite sources. That's it.
 
lol wow that's irony. I hope you do some research about these years someday. You talk like you have a real interest in them, so you should read about them some!

Perhaps, you should have looked closer.
f_whistle.gif


Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"?

Osama Bin Laden was a contract operative of the CIA and was recruited long before 9/11.

Osama Bin Laden traveled to the United States and toured military bases and the White House. He used a CIA code-name, “Tim Osman”, and was looking for help against the Soviets.
http://www.orlingrabbe.com/binladin_timo…

Osama Bin Laden was officially recruited into the CIA in 1979. His activities were backed by the CIA, which, like him, had an account at BCCI Bank.
FAIR: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting

Bin Laden’s group of Afghans received backing from the CIA.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BR…
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghan…

Bin Laden’s CIA ties became well-known in April 1998, when MSNBC exposed his connections to the Agency.
Bin Laden comes home to roost | NBC News


The Papist-controlled US Government has claimed that it broke it’s ties with Bin Laden long before 9/11. However, an FBI insider said that Bin Laden was employed by the CIA until the very day of 9/11.
The BRAD BLOG : Ryland: A Sibel Edmonds 'Bombshell' - Bin Laden Worked for U.S. Until 9/11

There is some evidence to support her story. In July 2001 (Two months before 9/11), French media reported that a local CIA chief met with Osama Bin Laden at an American hospital in Dubai.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov…

There is absolutely no doubt that Osama Bin Laden and his associates are CIA. Thus, they are subservient to the Papist Crime Network. The CIA is a front operation for the Jesuits/Vatican.

Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"? - Yahoo! Answers


Nice try tho. :lol:
 
No, I was citing wealth disparity and you presented that graph as proof that disparity was greater in the gilded age, but it didn't show that at all.

No, and now you're lying. Here is the exchange:

Uhhh, the standard of living, living wage, consumer power, and wealth accumulation in the US as compared to the US in the past. Helped means it got better, not worse. Let's see your data.


The word disparity never came up between us before then. So you're lying. Very mature. Very emotionally in control.

So besides insult and emotional outburst and logical fallacy, what have you actually presented here?

Well, now the fact that you're also a liar who doesn't realize that on a messageboard, you can actually go back and see what people said.
 
They'll bitch if he does.

They'll bitch if he doesn't.

So why bother?
 
No, and now you're lying. Here is the exchange:





The word disparity never came up between us before then. So you're lying. Very mature. Very emotionally in control.



Well, now the fact that you're also a liar who doesn't realize that on a messageboard, you can actually go back and see what people said.

Speaking of which, following the conversation backwards it started from

Has it? Decades of war in the Middle East have solved terrorism or exacerbated it?

Which clearly meant the time frame on the decades of war in the ME, not going back to the gilded age. And it doesn't disprove my point that things are worse for the average American as wealth disparity has caused a flattening of purchasing and consuming power while more and more power and wealth accumulates in the smallest number of hands.
 
Perhaps, you should have looked closer.
f_whistle.gif


Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"?

No.

Osama Bin Laden was a contract operative of the CIA and was recruited long before 9/11.

No.

Osama Bin Laden traveled to the United States and toured military bases and the White House. He used a CIA code-name, “Tim Osman”, and was looking for help against the Soviets.
http://www.orlingrabbe.com/binladin_timo…

No. The link doesn't even work, btw. I'm sure it went somewhere very reputable years ago, though. lol

Osama Bin Laden was officially recruited into the CIA in 1979. His activities were backed by the CIA, which, like him, had an account at BCCI Bank.
FAIR: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting

No.

Bin Laden’s group of Afghans received backing from the CIA.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BR…

Bin Laden didn't have a group of Afghans, so no. Your link doesn't work, btw.


Your link doesn't work.

Bin Laden’s CIA ties became well-known in April 1998, when MSNBC exposed his connections to the Agency.
Bin Laden comes home to roost | NBC News

No.

The Papist-controlled US Government has claimed that it broke it’s ties with Bin Laden long before 9/11. However, an FBI insider said that Bin Laden was employed by the CIA until the very day of 9/11.

Papist-controlled, huh? LOL, no.

The BRAD BLOG : Ryland: A Sibel Edmonds 'Bombshell' - Bin Laden Worked for U.S. Until 9/11

This is what happens when you just copy and paste from a nutjobs rantings: your links don't work and you have **** in here that's useless.

There is some evidence to support her story. In July 2001 (Two months before 9/11), French media reported that a local CIA chief met with Osama Bin Laden at an American hospital in Dubai.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov…

Link doesn't work, and no.
There is absolutely no doubt that Osama Bin Laden and his associates are CIA. Thus, they are subservient to the Papist Crime Network. The CIA is a front operation for the Jesuits/Vatican.

lol no.

Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"? - Yahoo! Answers

No.

Nice try tho. :lol:

I can't say the same for you, unfortunately.

We see the company Ikari keeps. Tell me more about South Africa, Ikari.
 
Speaking of which, following the conversation backwards it started from

Speaking of which, you lied and are too emotional and petulant to admit it.


Which clearly meant the time frame on the decades of war in the ME, not going back to the gilded age.

I asked you how long. You said whenever. Since you were complaining about American interventionism, I went back to what is universally considered the beginning of American interventionism.

And it doesn't disprove my point that things are worse for the average American as wealth disparity has caused a flattening of purchasing and consuming power while more and more power and wealth accumulates in the smallest number of hands.

But it proves you're liar, and you still don't know the four things that you were arguing about that you clearly didn't know anything about. So again, why would you continue to talk to a liar that doesn't know about the things he's talking about? I'm talking to you only to show you how transparent and pathetic what you've been doing has been.
 
No.



No.



No. The link doesn't even work, btw. I'm sure it went somewhere very reputable years ago, though. lol



No.



Bin Laden didn't have a group of Afghans, so no. Your link doesn't work, btw.



Your link doesn't work.



No.



Papist-controlled, huh? LOL, no.



This is what happens when you just copy and paste from a nutjobs rantings: your links don't work and you have **** in here that's useless.



Link doesn't work, and no.


lol no.



No.



I can't say the same for you, unfortunately.

We see the company Ikari keeps. Tell me more about South Africa, Ikari.

Well the links work back in the earlier post. As I just brought them up from there. Imagine that. :lol:

Bin Laden’s CIA ties became well-known in April 1998, when MSNBC exposed his connections to the Agency.
Bin Laden comes home to roost | NBC News

Resolved Question

Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"?

Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"? - Yahoo! Answers

Don't forget the Bio too. ;)
 
Speaking of which, you lied and are too emotional and petulant to admit it.




I asked you how long. You said whenever. Since you were complaining about American interventionism, I went back to what is universally considered the beginning of American interventionism.



But it proves you're liar, and you still don't know the four things that you were arguing about that you clearly didn't know anything about. So again, why would you continue to talk to a liar that doesn't know about the things he's talking about? I'm talking to you only to show you how transparent and pathetic what you've been doing has been.

American military interventionism which was clear from the time frame I laid out in previous posts. And you didn't prove anything. The graph you gave was per capita GDP, it didn't show any statistical breakdown which is what I said earlier. It doesn't track consumer power by economic group, it doesn't track costs of living, it doesn't account for inflation, etc. It's just our GDP divided by our population.

So if you can get past the emotional insults and just address points as they're laid out and quit trying to move goal posts to try to make a point, then that would be great.
 
Well the links work back in the earlier post. As I just brought them up from there. Imagine that. :lol:

Bin Laden’s CIA ties became well-known in April 1998, when MSNBC exposed his connections to the Agency.
Bin Laden comes home to roost | NBC News

And yet none of that indicates that bin Laden worked for the CIA. It indicates that bin Laden would sometimes fight alongside Afghans, and that the CIA gave the ISI money, and that the ISI gave the Afghans money. bin Laden didn't need ISI money. So, like I told you pages ago: YOUR LINK DOESN'T SAY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IT DOES

Resolved Question

Very much so.

Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"?

Was Osama Bin Laden a CIA operative code named, "Tim Osman"? - Yahoo! Answers

Don't forget the Bio too. ;)

Did you just link me Yahoo! Answers? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

mj-laughing.gif
 
American military interventionism which was clear from the time frame I laid out in previous posts. And you didn't prove anything. The graph you gave was per capita GDP, it didn't show any statistical breakdown which is what I said earlier. It doesn't track consumer power by economic group, it doesn't track costs of living, it doesn't account for inflation, etc. It's just our GDP divided by our population.

So if you can get past the emotional insults and just address points as they're laid out and quit trying to move goal posts to try to make a point, then that would be great.

So you lied or didn't lie?
 
So you lied or didn't lie?

You never addressed the point. You posted a graph that had nothing to do with what you were claiming it had something to do with. I don't care how far you go back, but our interventionism in the ME which really took off near the end of/after WW II. It was in 1944 that the UK and US split up the ME for oil concerns. We've been meddling ever since.
 
Back
Top Bottom