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US Closing Embassies in Mideast for a Day amid Possible Qaeda Threat.....

The Boland Amendment was a poorly written amendment that was open to interpretation and was easily for those Americans who refused to stop fighting the Cold War to get around including the Reagan administration.

The Boland Amendment was just another attempt by the radical Left in Congress to have America surrender and stop fighting the Cold War.

The big question should be, who paid for those obsolete Hawk and Stinger missiles ? Not the U.S. Government.
Anyone who ever bought a six pack of Coor's back during the 1980's probably helped armed the Contras.

But the Iran Contra "scandal" is history. It was just one battle of the Cold War and the endgame was, our side won and the left in America and the Soviets lost.

I learned a long time ago that when you see something that isn't right but doesn't involve you it may be best to keep your mouth shut. But when it leads to murder, one doesn't necessary have to go public but be willing to testify under oath what he saw or knows.

Does Col. Jim Sabow ring a bell ?

You would have to go back to the beginning of the discussion to get why Iran-Contra was in the discussion. I take your point about the Boland Amendment. The story of Col. Sabow is a sad one, but it's not really germane to this discussion.:peace
 
Air America did not run drugs either.

Air America - Official Web Site for Air America

www.[B]air[/B]-america.org/‎:peace

I tend to agree. I've only known one individual who flew for Air America and he also says it's all a bunch of BS.

What I do know about what was going on back then, it wasn't the CIA, Army, Navy or Marines who were smuggling drugs from SE Asia into the CONUS but individual airmen who were stationed in Thailand. Because those individuals were serving in the Air Force at the time doesn't mean that the Air Force was in the drug business.

I seem to remember when a sailor got busted on a destroyer for trying to smuggle heroin in to Hawaii back in 71. It was the CID who busted him. Some would say the Navy was in the drugs smuggling business. It was just one sailor breaking the law. That's why the military has CID, or criminal investigation units.

Back during the 60's and 70's I had friends who had friends serving in Germany and would send a few ounces of hashies through the mail, does that mean that the U.S. Army was smuggling hash from Germany to the USA ? I don't think so.

Rep. Maxine Waters (D) can still be seen on Saturday nights standing on the corner of Florence and Western Ave. along with the hookers trying to score crack from a CIA operative drug pusher. After almost three decades she still hasn't been able to find her CIA drug connection.
 
You would have to go back to the beginning of the discussion to get why Iran-Contra was in the discussion. I take your point about the Boland Amendment. The story of Col. Sabow is a sad one, but it's not really germane to this discussion.:peace

I was just curious if you were aware of the Col. Sabow incident. Nothing more needs to be said on this thread or on the DP.
 
Oct 11, 2012- President Obama, "...and today, al-Qaeda is on the run and Osama bin Laden is dead."

Absurd when he said it but to his non thinking supporters, it sounded good so that was good enough, damn the facts. Of course an Obama supporter would probably claim Obama was telling the truth if an al-Qaeda member ran a car packed with explosives into one of our embassies and blew it up. You know, they were "on the run" until the bomb blew. That would be the standard type twist an Obama supporter puts on for just about everything the man touches.
 
So you was CIA? Briefed or knows the full details to include possible threats toward the CIA op? I'd say the Ambassador doesn't know all the details, nor wants to know. I am not saying the State Dept didn't know the CIA was running an OP in Benghazi, State gave them the 'securing regime weapons' cover, am saying it was not part of State's job to secure the Benghazi facility- that was for the CIA. State wasn't running around Libya looking for weapons- it just made a good cover for Americans moving weapons around.

My point is State didn't know a **** storm was about to descend on Benghazi. The CIA did a for **** job managing security and the Ambassador, most likely called to visit by the CIA, paid the price along with his 'IT' consultant and two CIA hired Guns. The CIA screwed the pooch, plain and simple. But sometimes the pooch gets screwed- FIDO. Who's head(s) roll is a CIA matter, not a public hearing Congress matter.

This is fascinating information. You appear to have insight of a deeply involved nature, to be able to speak to the particulars of a Chief of Mission briefing to the Ambassador like that. Are you sure you should be posting this on a debate forum instead of going to (say) CNN, or perhaps your SSO?

What does rub me the wrong way is a select few never risked a paper cut 'conservatives' are trying to use this for political gain. Now even that is expected- not honorable but expected- but I doubt the operation closed down because of the Benghazi BS so there are still men and women out there and these asshats are running around flinging spittle in the vain and somewhat forlorn hope the GOP can both avoid a split off of the tea party and so dirty the Dems that they can't win more seats in '14 and so dirty Hillary she can't run in '16.

Ah, the old chickenhawk fail. Take a look around, NQR. You've got a lot of recent combat vets on this forum - guess which way they lean on this? Guess what they think about the idea of abandoning your people on the ground?

"Phony" Scandals don't come home in body bags.
 
My point is State didn't know a **** storm was about to descend on Benghazi.

This would be laughable except there is a chance you may be correct.

Remember why the Libya misadventure started to begin with according to Obama? "Thousands of people" are going to be killed he said. So what does he do to prevent that, he kills (or has killed) thousands of people to overthrow a reformed terrorist supporter who for the last several years had been toeing the line that the western world had wanted him to. Reckon more than just a few people might have been a little upset about that? Or how about arming members of al-Qaeda (our sworn enemy) along the way to accomplish that foolish task? None of it made any sense.

So yes, there is a chance that the incompetents running State had no clue as to what was about to take place. They were incapable of thinking the mission through to begin with total incompetence at the top. Any warnings or criticisms about their blundering ways would have been quickly shot down as this administration does on everything else. And of course we have witnessed the aftermath. Lie after lie after lie. Stonewall, misdirect, call it phony, whatever it takes to hope it all goes away.
 
This Sunday is Obama's Birthday.....The US is being Threatened that our Embassies in the ME, will be hit. This is all we are being told at this time. Other than it may go beyond this Sunday. Thoughts upon the matter?



The United States is closing all of its embassies Sunday in the Middle East and parts of Asia because of a possible al-Qaeda-related threat to diplomatic posts worldwide, American officials told NBC News on Thursday.

The U.S. has been "apprised of information that out of an abundance of caution and care for our employees and others who may be visiting our installations, that indicates we should institute these precautionary steps," said State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf.

A senior State Department official told NBC News that all embassies that are usually open in Sundays — primarily those in Muslim countries and Israel — would be closed Aug. 4 "out of an abundance of caution." Sunday is a normal workday in those countries.

Sunday is President Barack Obama's 52nd birthday, and it's also the day Iran inaugurates Hassan Rowhani as its new president. But U.S. officials told NBC News they had heard nothing to indicate that the date was chosen for either of those reasons.....snip~

US closing embassies in Mideast for a day amid possible Qaeda threat


I don't really understand why they do this. The threat will exist beyond just this one day and closing for one day does nothing more than disrupt the functions of the embassies. Most terrorist cells use, relative to the time, primitive means to attach their targets. Which means that simply changing the date of the attack is easily done. Closing for a day will really do nothing in preventing an attack. All it does is legitimize the people who wish or threaten to attack us.
 
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I don't really understand why they do this. The threat will exist beyond just this one day and closing for one day does nothing more than disrupt the functions of the embassies. Most terrorist cells use, relative to the time, primitive means to attach their targets. Which means that simply changing the date of the attack is easily done. Closing for a day will really do nothing in preventing an attack. All it does is legitimize the people who wish or threaten to attack us.

If the target(s) is/are our embassy/embassies then the closures disrupt the attack(s) and buy more time for our guys to figure out who/what/where.:peace
 
I don't really understand why they do this. The threat will exist beyond just this one day and closing for one day does nothing more than disrupt the functions of the embassies. Most terrorist cells use, relative to the time, primitive means to attach their targets. Which means that simply changing the date of the attack is easily done. Closing for a day will really do nothing in preventing an attack. All it does is legitimize the people who wish or threaten to attack us.

Heya Capster. :2wave: Well.....Like I mentioned earlier in the thread. We will need to stay on point until 911. Not relax things down at the end of Aug. Wish we could go proactive and target any Sunni Clerics that open their mouths to try and get people to rise up against us. Especially any tied to AQ and the MB.
 
Hound

The war on terror was invented by the Feds. The purpose is to demand more money and power from people. So when the intelligence and Pentagon are there, the terror will be there too. If there is none, they create one.

Human have hound in their house to protect their family against the wolf. As the hound getting more power, they don't want to be guards any more. They want to be master. So the hound trained some wolf they captured. Let these agent wolf to attack and kill human. Human is frightened. They give hound whatever they demanded -money, power ..... Now hound become master. When they need something, they let the agent wolf have an attack on human, then said, this is a long war, to protect your lives, I need warrantless surveillance, more budget fund, torture prison.... . The hound repeated its demand, "This enemy has struck us, and they will strike again, and we'll give our folks the tools necessary to protect the country," if you don't then the hound "can not protect ourselves".

That's why we saw after 10 years, occasionally a wolf or two were captured. But hundreds of thousands of innocent people died. There is an endless war to control people. A constant blackmail for more power.
 
Hound

The war on terror was invented by the Feds. The purpose is to demand more money and power from people. So when the intelligence and Pentagon are there, the terror will be there too. If there is none, they create one.

Human have hound in their house to protect their family against the wolf. As the hound getting more power, they don't want to be guards any more. They want to be master. So the hound trained some wolf they captured. Let these agent wolf to attack and kill human. Human is frightened. They give hound whatever they demanded -money, power ..... Now hound become master. When they need something, they let the agent wolf have an attack on human, then said, this is a long war, to protect your lives, I need warrantless surveillance, more budget fund, torture prison.... . The hound repeated its demand, "This enemy has struck us, and they will strike again, and we'll give our folks the tools necessary to protect the country," if you don't then the hound "can not protect ourselves".

That's why we saw after 10 years, occasionally a wolf or two were captured. But hundreds of thousands of innocent people died. There is an endless war to control people. A constant blackmail for more power.

hahah awesome
 
Well before there was Georgie Boy.....there was Bilbo the Clown. Aka Bill Clinton.

For Susan Rice, Benghazi Was Kenya 1998 Deja Vu

Parallels: A mission was attacked after warnings, Americans were killed after security requests were denied, and a diplomat went on TV to explain it all — our current U.N. ambassador, after embassy bombings in 1998.

'What troubles me so much is the Benghazi attack in many ways echoes the attacks on both embassies in 1998, when Susan Rice was head of the African region for our State Department," Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, said Wednesday after two hours with our U.N. ambassador. "In both cases, the ambassador begged for additional security."

In the spring of 1998, Prudence Bushnell, the U.S. ambassador to Kenya, sent an emotional letter to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright begging for a more secure embassy in the face of mounting terrorist threats and a warning that she was the target of an assassination plot.

The State Department had repeatedly denied her request, citing a lack of money. But that kind of response, she wrote Albright, was "endangering the lives of embassy personnel."

A matter of months later, on Aug. 7, 1998, the American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya were simultaneously attacked with car bombs. In Kenya, 12 American diplomats and more than 200 Africans were killed.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: For Susan Rice, Benghazi Was Kenya 1998 Deja Vu; Tanzania Too - Investors.com
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

Which didn't count those killed in Tanzania either[/B]. Course you didn't think Georgie Boy was even close to the Repeated failures of the Democrats with deaths and injured with Embassies. Which doesn't even count that screw up in Somalia. Which happened under Bilbo's keen eyes.

Notice the same excuses by the Democrats. Especially about that part about after they tightened up security and that part on.....Oh it will never happen again.


Is anyone else seeing the pattern? Clinton, Bush, Obama....nothing has changed. Same crap, same wars, same dangers. The only thing that changes is the amount we are in debt to other countries. And that one isn't changing for the better.
 
Is anyone else seeing the pattern? Clinton, Bush, Obama....nothing has changed. Same crap, same wars, same dangers. The only thing that changes is the amount we are in debt to other countries. And that one isn't changing for the better.

Maybe that means the US president doesn't control the world? That threats are complex and have a variety of causes and that one guy can't fix everything? That seems pretty obvious to me, but people always seem to come to the conclusion that there's some conspiracy to just not fix the problems. Very odd.
 
Maybe that means the US president doesn't control the world? That threats are complex and have a variety of causes and that one guy can't fix everything? That seems pretty obvious to me, but people always seem to come to the conclusion that there's some conspiracy to just not fix the problems. Very odd.

Or that what we've been doing for decade upon decade upon decade measurably isn't working and continuing to work in this manner is absolutely irrational, mind numbing, and dangerous to ourselves and our liberty.
 
Or that what we've been doing for decade upon decade upon decade measurably isn't working and continuing to work in this manner is absolutely irrational, mind numbing, and dangerous to ourselves and our liberty.

Or it's not. What the US has been doing for decade upon decade worked quite well for quite some time. Is it not working as well now? Or are there other reasons why this would be a bigger problem? Think about it. Trying to blame one thing for a complex tapestry of actions, reactions, threats, trades, alliances, and belligerencies might just be a little myopic, no?
 
Or it's not. What the US has been doing for decade upon decade worked quite well for quite some time. Is it not working as well now? Or are there other reasons why this would be a bigger problem? Think about it. Trying to blame one thing for a complex tapestry of actions, reactions, threats, trades, alliances, and belligerencies might just be a little myopic, no?

Has it? Decades of war in the Middle East have solved terrorism or exacerbated it? Made our debt smaller, or expanded it? Caused government to increase is size and power particularly against our rights and liberties, or curtailed and limited it?

The measurements are there, measurement tells reality. Decades of spinning our wheels and we have nothing but debt, more intrusive government, higher threats from terrorists, and more dead Americans to show for it. Can't argue against measurement.
 
Has it? Decades of war in the Middle East have solved terrorism or exacerbated it?

It hasn't solved it nor exacerbated it. But it has helped.

Made our debt smaller, or expanded it?

Larger. Do you think the war on terror is the major reason for that?

Caused government to increase is size and power particularly against our rights and liberties, or curtailed and limited it?

lol you're one of those guys. Okay, nevermind lol

The measurements are there, measurement tells reality.

lol, no they don't, but you won't accept that, I can now tell.

Decades of spinning our wheels and we have nothing but debt, more intrusive government, higher threats from terrorists, and more dead Americans to show for it. Can't argue against measurement.

You keep saying decades but then you just went back one? I don't get it. When did this start? Maybe then you'll understand why I said it worked for quite some time. Since you're one of those guys, though, probably not.
 
It hasn't solved it nor exacerbated it. But it has helped.

Has it? So we're better off than in the 60's? Less debt? Less government? More freedom? Less international threats?

Larger. Do you think the war on terror is the major reason for that?

Well you don't spend trillions of dollars when you're broke and end up breaking even.

lol you're one of those guys. Okay, nevermind lol

So insult is the only way you can deal with question and debate?

lol, no they don't, but you won't accept that, I can now tell.

It's because I'm a scientist, I recognize data and measurement and analysis. What is better? What threats alleviated? Is America in a better place than before we started this interventionist attitude?

You keep saying decades but then you just went back one? I don't get it. When did this start? Maybe then you'll understand why I said it worked for quite some time. Since you're one of those guys, though, probably not.

You say it worked, but there's no evidence for that. Decade after decade after decade, we're still in the same places, fighting the same wars, dying in the same sand, broke and broken. But it's worked for quite some time, yes? Then you have evidence. I await your presentation of it.
 
Has it? So we're better off than in the 60's?

We maintained a very strong economy- although always decreasing relative to other nations for reasons that have nothing to do with domestic politics- and general stability through the 90s.

Less debt?

For most of it, yes. But again, that goes back to the developed world-aside from the US- being destroyed by the second World War. Was it any surprise that by even the late 40s the US was losing ground to Europe and the like? Of course not. By the 1960s it was even worse. And then with Deng in China? The 1980s were worse than, too. Nothing to do with domestic policy.

Less government?

lol? Are you implying the more government is always bad? Sometimes it's bad and sometimes it's good.

More freedom?

Same.

Less international threats?

Less.

Well you don't spend trillions of dollars when you're broke and end up breaking even.

The US isn't going to break even either way without adding significant revenue. The wars make no difference there.

So insult is the only way you can deal with question and debate?

No, but there's no convincing some people, and I know recognize you as one. Look at your sig, dude.

It's because I'm a scientist, I recognize data and measurement and analysis.

You should apply that scientific method.

What is better?

Who said the word 'better'? Use science to tell me, please.

What threats alleviated?

Since when?

Is America in a better place than before we started this interventionist attitude?

Yes.

You say it worked, but there's no evidence for that. Decade after decade after decade, we're still in the same places, fighting the same wars, dying in the same sand, broke and broken. But it's worked for quite some time, yes? Then you have evidence. I await your presentation of it.

Uhhh..the standard of living for the average American as compared to the rest of the world from, say 1870 and now.
 
We maintained a very strong economy- although always decreasing relative to other nations for reasons that have nothing to do with domestic politics- and general stability through the 90s.

Indeed, we bought on credit for pretty well as long as that could go. We gave to the banks to subsidize, we converted to corporate capitalism to add a bit of lifetime. But it wasn't sustainable, was it? Where are we now? Where's our production and manufacturing? Where is our ingenuity? Our progress?

For most of it, yes. But again, that goes back to the developed world-aside from the US- being destroyed by the second World War. Was it any surprise that by even the late 40s the US was losing ground to Europe and the like? Of course not. By the 1960s it was even worse. And then with Deng in China? The 1980s were worse than, too. Nothing to do with domestic policy.

So without spending all this money blowing up places in the middle east for as long as we have, we'd be in less debt? That's your argument?

But the offshoring or production actually has a lot to do with domestic and foreign policy. Our domestic policies have increasingly concentrated wealth into the smallest number of hands. The corporate capitalist model we now follow breeds more into that. Middle class and lower have been stagnate or losing ground. Only the top fractions of a percent have really grown. To keep everyone in line, to allow people enough consuming power to keep them pacified, we need cheaper and cheaper sources of labor. Slave labor essentially, which is why we have traditionally offshored production to countries with very few labor and environmental laws. It all plays into the same cycle.

lol? Are you implying the more government is always bad? Sometimes it's bad and sometimes it's good.

No, rather that government is dangerous. A necessary danger, but one that MUST be controlled. When you do not control it, you get what we have now; and we're not on a positive slope.


Same? I can't buy the same guns that could have been purchased pre-Reagan. I can't say what I could have said in the 50's (not that i was alive then, there was just less policing). We have "free speech" zones now, we prearrest people before political conventions, the NSA and all other branches of government keep close eye on us, you can't go through an airport without being treated as a criminal, cops can search our property for pretty well any reason, they can confiscate it for less. It's the same? I don't think that's an honest answer.


Less? I didn't need TSA in the 80's. We didn't have a color coded warning system. We didn't need the HLS, as aggressive an NSA, etc. If we're at less threat, why do we need so much more government force and infrastructure?

The US isn't going to break even either way without adding significant revenue. The wars make no difference there.

Our debt is around, what 16 trillion? The WoT has cost somewhere around 1.5 trillion. That's 1% It's actually rather significant. Much more so than the programs where we spend millions of dollars that people complain about.

No, but there's no convincing some people, and I know recognize you as one. Look at your sig, dude.

Indeed, tis nothing more than a statement of fact.

You should apply that scientific method.

I always do

Who said the word 'better'? Use science to tell me, please.

You said that our policies have helped, which means we are better off. I didn't say solved, I said better. You claimed it, I'd like to see some metrics on it.

Since when?

As far back as you please. Probably safer than during WW II? Pearl Harbor killed what, 2K...so a bit less than 9/11. And one can say 9/11 was worse since it was civilian target in an era where there wasn't major war between the major countries of the world. But perhaps. Let's say the 60's. Are we safer now than in the 60's? How many terrorist attacks did we have in the 60's? How many now? Did it peak? Are we on the down slope now? What data do you have in general to show trends. You claimed we're better off, our policies have helped. So you can show evidence of this helping, yes?


Evidence?

Uhhh..the standard of living for the average American as compared to the rest of the world from, say 1870 and now.

Uhhh, the standard of living, living wage, consumer power, and wealth accumulation in the US as compared to the US in the past. Helped means it got better, not worse. Let's see your data.
 
Indeed, we bought on credit for pretty well as long as that could go. We gave to the banks to subsidize, we converted to corporate capitalism to add a bit of lifetime. But it wasn't sustainable, was it? Where are we now? Where's our production and manufacturing? Where is our ingenuity? Our progress?

No one option is sustainable. Who said it was? But American interventionism certainly helped prop up the head start the US first received by sharing a landmass with unorganized and comparably technologically inferior city-states, a later received by being the one developed nation to avoid abject destruction. It helped. That's the point: you said it's hurt, I said it helped for the majority of the time applied.

So without spending all this money blowing up places in the middle east for as long as we have, we'd be in less debt? That's your argument?

We'd have less security, too. It's a balance.

But the offshoring or production actually has a lot to do with domestic and foreign policy. Our domestic policies have increasingly concentrated wealth into the smallest number of hands. The corporate capitalist model we now follow breeds more into that. Middle class and lower have been stagnate or losing ground. Only the top fractions of a percent have really grown. To keep everyone in line, to allow people enough consuming power to keep them pacified, we need cheaper and cheaper sources of labor. Slave labor essentially, which is why we have traditionally offshored production to countries with very few labor and environmental laws. It all plays into the same cycle.

No, the offshoring really doesn't. Nations with large and varied interests will have large and varied foreign military/political/socio-economic interests. You're confusing the cause with the effect.

No, rather that government is dangerous. A necessary danger, but one that MUST be controlled. When you do not control it, you get what we have now; and we're not on a positive slope.

Everything's dangerous. Water is dangerous if you drink too much. It's also dangerous if you don't have enough. Very dangerous in your lungs. Less so in your stomach. To say water is completely good for you or completely bad for you, then, would be wrong. It depends on the degree, it depends on how it's applied. Government is the same way.

Same? I can't buy the same guns that could have been purchased pre-Reagan. I can't say what I could have said in the 50's (not that i was alive then, there was just less policing). We have "free speech" zones now, we prearrest people before political conventions, the NSA and all other branches of government keep close eye on us, you can't go through an airport without being treated as a criminal, cops can search our property for pretty well any reason, they can confiscate it for less. It's the same? I don't think that's an honest answer.

You can also marry a guy. You can marry someone who isn't of your race. You can now fly, much cheaper than in the 1950s (per capita). Your wife can have maternal leave. Freedom is more than gun rights and the NSA (did you have cell phones in the 1950s anyway? So let's call that a wash- you didn't have any freedom from wiretaps then, either, that's why the Church Committee convened in the 1970s).

Less? I didn't need TSA in the 80's. We didn't have a color coded warning system. We didn't need the HLS, as aggressive an NSA, etc. If we're at less threat, why do we need so much more government force and infrastructure?

You don't have the Soviet Union on the brink of nuclear war. Are you saying the TSA is capable of killing more people at once than nuclear war? Has the TSA ever killed anybody? You're being very meolodramatic here.

Our debt is around, what 16 trillion? The WoT has cost somewhere around 1.5 trillion. That's 1% It's actually rather significant. Much more so than the programs where we spend millions of dollars that people complain about.

Has it cost that? Does that include troops salaries and perks? You should look into that.

Indeed, tis nothing more than a statement of fact.

No, it's not. That's kinda the problem. It's your opinion, and if you can't figure out that just because you think it, it's true, then you have some significant problems.

I always do

I hope to see it someday!

You said that our policies have helped, which means we are better off. I didn't say solved, I said better. You claimed it, I'd like to see some metrics on it.

I didn't say better. I said they maintained US standards for quite some time. Are Americans 'better off' than if those policies weren't applied from the 1890s onward? Of course.

As far back as you please. Probably safer than during WW II? Pearl Harbor killed what, 2K...so a bit less than 9/11. And one can say 9/11 was worse since it was civilian target in an era where there wasn't major war between the major countries of the world. But perhaps. Let's say the 60's. Are we safer now than in the 60's? How many terrorist attacks did we have in the 60's? How many now? Did it peak? Are we on the down slope now? What data do you have in general to show trends. You claimed we're better off, our policies have helped. So you can show evidence of this helping, yes?

We're much safer than the 1960s, of course. We're not under the threat of nuclear war. Terrorism is about the democratization of violence, via technology, and that has very little to do with American policy. What American policy could've completely avoided twitter?

Evidence?

Standard of living, 1870s to now. I already told you that, why did you ask again?

Uhhh, the standard of living, living wage, consumer power, and wealth accumulation in the US as compared to the US in the past. Helped means it got better, not worse. Let's see your data.

lol?
long-run-us-gdp-per-capita-growth-1870-2011-levels.png


If the only thing you want to use is wealth accumulation...it still wouldn't be smart thing to use when the comparison is against the gilded age lol
 
No one option is sustainable. Who said it was? But American interventionism certainly helped prop up the head start the US first received by sharing a landmass with unorganized and comparably technologically inferior city-states, a later received by being the one developed nation to avoid abject destruction. It helped. That's the point: you said it's hurt, I said it helped for the majority of the time applied.

Has it? You still offer no numbers nor analysis. You yourself said that this was a complex issue well before, yes? Did you take the time to disentangle the non-linear effects to say that interventionism=better? Or are you taking coincidence of economy and claiming that interventionism had positive effect on it? I just want your evidence for the claim, nothing more.

We'd have less security, too. It's a balance.

You have proof for this, or is it just assumption? My opinion is that without the interventionism our actions wouldn't play into the hands of terrorists. Hell, had we not trained OBL and the terrorists to fight the Russians, we'd likely see decreased threat now. Each time we intercede unjustly into foreign lands, we play into the propaganda of terrorists. We make the world a little less stable, a little more at risk. You can only bomb people for so long before they become REALLY pissed off about it, and if they can find no satisfaction through diplomatic means, they are all the more likely to try non-diplomatic means.

No, the offshoring really doesn't. Nations with large and varied interests will have large and varied foreign military/political/socio-economic interests. You're confusing the cause with the effect.

Not really. It's simplified because there has been growth in sectors not in industry, but those revolve around technology and would require that we educate more of our population to maintain. However, the wealth gap is not confused and the buying power is not confused. One of the reasons people bitch that we can't buy our own products is because wealth distribution did not keep up with labor and environmental laws. So to subsidize that, we use slave labor where we can get it. Currently it's China. Which in and of itself does lend to some stability because China is less likely to involve itself militarily against the United States with its economy so deeply entwined with our own. Which would bolster my point that trade, not war, make for stability.

Everything's dangerous. Water is dangerous if you drink too much. It's also dangerous if you don't have enough. Very dangerous in your lungs. Less so in your stomach. To say water is completely good for you or completely bad for you, then, would be wrong. It depends on the degree, it depends on how it's applied. Government is the same way.

Government is the same way. I did say it was necessary, and its necessity is in securing the rights and liberties of the People. Anarchy does not work. Measured fact as well. So we must have some, but too much currently has affected our freedom and liberty as well as put us in more danger of international retaliation.

You can also marry a guy. You can marry someone who isn't of your race. You can now fly, much cheaper than in the 1950s (per capita). Your wife can have maternal leave. Freedom is more than gun rights and the NSA (did you have cell phones in the 1950s anyway? So let's call that a wash- you didn't have any freedom from wiretaps then, either, that's why the Church Committee convened in the 1970s).

I can marry a guy in some states. It's not a wash though, all you have is superficial things which obviously would have been allowed had we invested in our freedom instead of killing those around us.

You don't have the Soviet Union on the brink of nuclear war. Are you saying the TSA is capable of killing more people at once than nuclear war? Has the TSA ever killed anybody? You're being very meolodramatic here.

We have something worse. A former Soviet block selling arms to others, not being able to account for some, and we trained the terrorists to help fight them and that pretty well backfired.

Has it cost that? Does that include troops salaries and perks? You should look into that.

Overall cost of the WoT. 1% of our debt

No, it's not. That's kinda the problem. It's your opinion, and if you can't figure out that just because you think it, it's true, then you have some significant problems.

Indeed it is. America has some of the most aggressive police in the world. We also jail more people per capita than any other nation on the planet. We've restricted areas of free speech, we monitor the "malcontents", there is no privacy anymore, and the 9th and 10th amendments are all but ignored.

I hope to see it someday!

If you're ever honest about the data, you'd see it already.

I didn't say better. I said they maintained US standards for quite some time. Are Americans 'better off' than if those policies weren't applied from the 1890s onward? Of course.

You said it helped, so that means it made things a bit better, I'm just trying to see if you could actually quantify your statements. Pssst....you haven't.

We're much safer than the 1960s, of course. We're not under the threat of nuclear war. Terrorism is about the democratization of violence, via technology, and that has very little to do with American policy. What American policy could've completely avoided twitter?

Are we? We no longer have the Soviet Union it's true. But we're worried about North Korea having weapons, Iran going nuclear, Russia not being able to account for all its nukes, etc.

Standard of living, 1870s to now. I already told you that, why did you ask again?

Because you've produced nothing to actually back it up other than saying the same thing again. Of course the standards of living neigh across the globe have increased but proportionally so? And still? 70+ years we've been in the ME, how have we fared?

lol?
long-run-us-gdp-per-capita-growth-1870-2011-levels.png


If the only thing you want to use is wealth accumulation...it still wouldn't be smart thing to use when the comparison is against the gilded age lol

Oh, America make some money, it's just that the money isn't distributed along natural demographics. Which is the dishonesty in that plot of yours, you're purposefully skipping over all the statistics.
 
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