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Seven killed in Florida

Nonsense. Any means of killing them is acceptable.
I did not say teargas doesn't do harm, I said it is a non-lethal agent. Those killed in Turkey were not killed by teargas but by being hit with the canisters. Getting hit in the head with the canister apparently can cause blunt force trauma, but unless you have asthma or other respiratory problems, the gas itself will not kill you.

lying must be your habit

they were killed by tear gase capsules ,one of them killed by real bullet
many of them were injured by tear gases thrown in their faces at close range

many of them were blinded by tear gase capsules and bluffs

and you admit you want to see them dead in other threads too
 
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The only correlation in the US would be a timeline showing both the increase in such events and the corresponding increase in the leftist social policies in the US. Circumstantial, true. But then, many things involving society are.

I don't believe there is that much of a lesser percentage of persons going off their nut in those other countries, they just have less affective tools. What the US has led the way on that these other countries have not is the breakup of family values, traditional roles and removing of discipline for children. I don't believe that the left in other countries have embraced those elements nearly to the extent that the US has. Couple this with the leftist ideas of entitlement and such things as welfare which says even a person that contributes nothing is entitled to something and you get a recipe for disaster.

I'm not a leftist, of course I have a grip on reality. If I didn't have at least some grip on reality, then I would be one of the socialist types, i.e. liberal/progressive/retarded moron/etc.

seriously - get an education.

you seem to live in some microcosm devoid of any knowledge of the world outside the US - AND lacking in awareness of correlations between high incidences of violence and other social factors.

your statement above indicates that your grip on reality is mediated through a world view that is influenced by irrational thinking. to put it nicely.
 
Demographics of the region say that odds are they were not people or innocent, but liberal/progressive or other type of socialist.

What else can you do but accept that it happened. Unless you presume there was actually some way to prevent it.

Strange, maybe to some, but as our society has become more liberal/progressive/socialistic leaning, we seem to have an increase of "nutjobs having bad days". Maybe we can prevent these nut jobs simply by eliminating all this socialist leftist BS in our society.

It may help to get a grasp of what progressive actually means; particularly the UK distinction.

BBC News - So what exactly is 'progressive' in politics?

Paul
 
seriously - get an education.

you seem to live in some microcosm devoid of any knowledge of the world outside the US - AND lacking in awareness of correlations between high incidences of violence and other social factors.

your statement above indicates that your grip on reality is mediated through a world view that is influenced by irrational thinking. to put it nicely.

And by education, you mean brainwashing to your point of view. I am aware of high incidences in violence and many social factors and are aware that no single element alone explains everything. However, I cannot communicate in such a small space all that would needed to be known. I gave you a hint as to where and what to look for if your interested. I am however not going to give a full dissertation linking everything to the point that it would satisfy you. For one thing, your bias would preclude you from logical consideration of the evidence. Secondly, I have seen no evidence that you have the intellectual capacity, much less the will learn on the subject past your own biases. You also probably would not even read such a document if created.
 
It may help to get a grasp of what progressive actually means; particularly the UK distinction.

BBC News - So what exactly is 'progressive' in politics?

Paul

The progressives in Britain are not, at this point, directly my enemy to the extent that I am mentally preparing to engage them in combat. I is best to know your enemy, true, but learning how progressive think (if they actually do) in Britain is of no use to me in America at this time. The progressives in America are part of the broader left (encompassing all who have some type of socialist minded ideas) are my mortal enemy that are destroying my country to the point that the need to engaging them in combat may not be too far off in the future. If and when they are defeated, and the British people ask for help, then the ones in Britain can come under consideration.
 
The progressives in Britain are not, at this point, directly my enemy to the extent that I am mentally preparing to engage them in combat. I is best to know your enemy, true, but learning how progressive think (if they actually do) in Britain is of no use to me in America at this time. The progressives in America are part of the broader left (encompassing all who have some type of socialist minded ideas) are my mortal enemy that are destroying my country to the point that the need to engaging them in combat may not be too far off in the future. If and when they are defeated, and the British people ask for help, then the ones in Britain can come under consideration.

Speaking in such apocalyptic terms, leads me to believe we are so far apart there is just way to much ground between us, that trying to understand each others position is futile. Good day.

Paul
 
So, your view is it should simply be accepted that some 'nutjob' is able to have a bad day, and go right ahead and shoot innocent people, and there is nothing to discuss?

Paul

we have discussed crime and gun issues for years and generally posts such as yours combined with "progressive leans" indicate an anti gun rights agenda
 
good luck with that. I agree 100%. I believe tighter gun control would make a significant difference, but I don't think that the cause of gun violence in the US is the availability of guns

no one has been able to support your claim because in the USA we are getting more guns and in many states less gun control and crime is going down but it is going up in nations which have insane anti freedom gun laws
 
seriously - get an education.

you seem to live in some microcosm devoid of any knowledge of the world outside the US - AND lacking in awareness of correlations between high incidences of violence and other social factors.

your statement above indicates that your grip on reality is mediated through a world view that is influenced by irrational thinking. to put it nicely.

:lamo:lamo
 
**** happens.

I didn't know any of these people, as far as I've heard, and it isn't my state or my city or my county, and **** like this happens several times a year, and so it is kinda BFD to be honest.

In other news, a lot more than 7 people will die in traffic accidents this weekend, most of them alcohol-related.

Yes, you are right that "stuff" happens. But you know too that when a plane crashes and 100 passengers die it makes news although we both know that there were also 115 Americans who died that day in car crashes. (
But just for a strange sense of curiosity imagine if the major network news programs reported on each individual car accident that killed somebody that day.......)

That all being said, this opening thread is correct it was another shooting. But soon as you seen that title one knows this would turn into a pissing match.....again. Am not anti- gun but am anti-nut with a gun. The method of killing is really not important to me as he could have caused that whole building to burn and may have killed more but more important is what caused him to go nuts.

I do not believe though that if the initial 7 victims had a gun they would be alive. The one young guy parking and getting out of his car did not have any chance in hell unless you exit a vehicle with your gun drawn.

Having a gun is good as well as air bags in your vehicle but they are not going to protect you 100%. "Stuff" happens.
 
we have discussed crime and gun issues for years and generally posts such as yours combined with "progressive leans" indicate an anti gun rights agenda

I could very easily reply in kind, and say 'there is no point in discussing an issue with a rightwing nutjob like yourself' but does that not stifle debate at the start line?

Paul
 
I could very easily reply in kind, and say 'there is no point in discussing an issue with a rightwing nutjob like yourself' but does that not stifle debate at the start line?

Paul


I don't recall having "right wing nut job" as my lean. But this board crawls with posters who claim to be progressives and the vast majority of anti gun nonsense comes from people so self identified.
 
Holey Hannah, an astounding amount of incivility and irrelevant partisanship going on here.


There is really nothing much to say about this incident, other than "well, that's a shame... glad it didn't happen in my town," and move on... which is what most Americans did when they encountered this story.

The main reason for that is: there's not much to be done about this sort of thing. In a nation of over 315 million, with the particular social and economic problems and ethnic issues and etc that we have, things like this happen now and then.

Our mental healthcare system took a blow in major budget cuts in the 80s, particularly mental hospitals for the criminally insane and the dangerously disordered. As a result, a lot of people ended up on the street who needed to be housed in a secure unit. In part, this sort of thing is where we reap what we've sown in terms of national mental health.

OTOH, the long-term trends for violent crime and murder have been substantially DOWN for about 40 years now... so it really isn't as big an issue as the dramatic and overhyped media coverage make it seem.

As for guns, well... there are arguably more guns in the country than people, most of them never registered, and no action short of draconian police-state tactics is going to make them go away. There's little point in attacking it from that end.



So, frankly Paul, we shrug and we're thankful it wasn't anyone we knew and we go on with our lives... just like people who live in heavy tornado alleys like the Texas panhandle and Oklahoma after a storm; just like Hawaiians after an eruption; just like people continue to drive on the highways despite 40,000 traffic fatalities a year, just like we don't talk about restricting alcohol even though it is involved in roughly half of all fatal accidents and murders.



There's not much can practically be done about it so we shrug and carry on.
 
good luck with that. I agree 100%. I believe tighter gun control would make a significant difference, but I don't think that the cause of gun violence in the US is the availability of guns

Tighter gun control would make a difference?

In Mexico a citizen is not allowed to own a gun, so is Mexico a peaceful country?

When the law says citizens cannot own guns, only the criminals willhave guns, which is the situation in Mexico.
 
Demographics of the region say that odds are they were not people or innocent, but liberal/progressive or other type of socialist.

What else can you do but accept that it happened. Unless you presume there was actually some way to prevent it.

Strange, maybe to some, but as our society has become more liberal/progressive/socialistic leaning, we seem to have an increase of "nutjobs having bad days". Maybe we can prevent these nut jobs simply by eliminating all this socialist leftist BS in our society.

I am Reading the book 1984 right now.

Your post sounds like what I am reading.

They were not people (party members) they were proles (the poor).
 
I am Reading the book 1984 right now.

Your post sounds like what I am reading.

They were not people (party members) they were proles (the poor).

Never read it. Who is saying that (in the book) about whom? Is it the nanny state socialist retards that are trying to build an Orwellian society saying it about the glorious patriots standing up for human freedom? Or the other way around.
 
no one has been able to support your claim because in the USA we are getting more guns and in many states less gun control and crime is going down but it is going up in nations which have insane anti freedom gun laws

do you have anything to substantiate this?
 
Tighter gun control would make a difference?

In Mexico a citizen is not allowed to own a gun, so is Mexico a peaceful country?

When the law says citizens cannot own guns, only the criminals willhave guns, which is the situation in Mexico.

If you want to compare yourself to mexico - go ahead ... I always thought the US was supposed to be more like western Europe, Canada and Australia ....
 
Holey Hannah, an astounding amount of incivility and irrelevant partisanship going on here.


There is really nothing much to say about this incident, other than "well, that's a shame... glad it didn't happen in my town," and move on... which is what most Americans did when they encountered this story.

The main reason for that is: there's not much to be done about this sort of thing. In a nation of over 315 million, with the particular social and economic problems and ethnic issues and etc that we have, things like this happen now and then.

Our mental healthcare system took a blow in major budget cuts in the 80s, particularly mental hospitals for the criminally insane and the dangerously disordered. As a result, a lot of people ended up on the street who needed to be housed in a secure unit. In part, this sort of thing is where we reap what we've sown in terms of national mental health.

OTOH, the long-term trends for violent crime and murder have been substantially DOWN for about 40 years now... so it really isn't as big an issue as the dramatic and overhyped media coverage make it seem.

As for guns, well... there are arguably more guns in the country than people, most of them never registered, and no action short of draconian police-state tactics is going to make them go away. There's little point in attacking it from that end.



So, frankly Paul, we shrug and we're thankful it wasn't anyone we knew and we go on with our lives... just like people who live in heavy tornado alleys like the Texas panhandle and Oklahoma after a storm; just like Hawaiians after an eruption; just like people continue to drive on the highways despite 40,000 traffic fatalities a year, just like we don't talk about restricting alcohol even though it is involved in roughly half of all fatal accidents and murders.



There's not much can practically be done about it so we shrug and carry on.
the murder rate in the US is FAR higher than in comparable nations - and while these mass shootings are shocking, they make up a relatively low proportion of the overall murder rate.

that said - they do occur far more frequently than in other countries (although the worst of these atrocities did not occur in the US) - even taking into account the population size, there are other countries that have populations just as diverse as in the US, and in any case the majority of mass shooting perpetrators are white males.
 
And by education, you mean brainwashing to your point of view. I am aware of high incidences in violence and many social factors and are aware that no single element alone explains everything. However, I cannot communicate in such a small space all that would needed to be known. I gave you a hint as to where and what to look for if your interested. I am however not going to give a full dissertation linking everything to the point that it would satisfy you. For one thing, your bias would preclude you from logical consideration of the evidence. Secondly, I have seen no evidence that you have the intellectual capacity, much less the will learn on the subject past your own biases. You also probably would not even read such a document if created.

no. an educated person is able to assess information and construct a rational argument. they may not agree with me, but their argument will draw on factual information, not opinions and wild statements that can easily be dismissed by someone who can read.
 
do you have anything to substantiate this?

If you want to argue gun issues you should be aware of basic facts. England's rate of violent crime has increased steadily since the collective garment voiding due to Dunblane
 
NO. As the words suggest " Another shooting for America to deal with" is there something you don't understand in that sentence?

Paul

If you weren't referring to national policy why does America have to deal with it? Shouldn't it be a more personal matter for the families to deal with instead of 300 million people chiming in?
 
If you want to compare yourself to mexico - go ahead ... I always thought the US was supposed to be more like western Europe, Canada and Australia ....

The where doesn't matter.

The US is very much like Mexico in that in most major cities there are gangs who act very much like the cartels, so the comparison is correct.
 
If you want to compare yourself to mexico - go ahead ... I always thought the US was supposed to be more like western Europe, Canada and Australia ....

Actually, western Europe, Canada and Australia are supposed to be a lot like us. We were first, they just followed, at least in part, our example.
 
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