Jail break at Abu Ghraib

ecofarm · Jul 23, 2013

shrubnose said:
Unfortunately, before this is over with, lots of Iraqis may wish that they had Saddam back in power.

Promote genocidal totalitarianism with institutionalized rape much?

shrubnose said:
Read the news.

Read recent history. Your ignorance regarding the horror of Saddam is grotesque.

Surtr · Jul 23, 2013

Blue_State said:
Convoy fire is the ****!

Maybe we got less bullets because we got to shoot arty.

Maybe. I was a mechanic, but we had one of those hooah 1SGTs. Dude was Airborne SF, training was holier than the Bible to that guy.

Blue_State · Jul 23, 2013

OscarB63 said:
I'm in the Army reserves and we didn't even have enough ammo to get everyone in my unit qualified on their individual weapon this year. I haven't actually fired a weapon with the Army since 2009. Of course, I'm a logistics officer so it's not quite as important that I be able to hit a target at 300 meters.

Sir, order them some bullets!

Simon W. Moon · Jul 23, 2013

MadLib said:
So you think that, once Saddam falls on his own, there wouldn't be terrorism and civil war?

I'll have to get out my crystal ball. I don't use mine as often as you may use yours. Yours seems to get better reception than mine as well.

Simon W. Moon · Jul 23, 2013

ecofarm said:
Invasion of Iran 500k
Genocide (twice) 250k
Invasion of Kuwait
Intentional starvation 400k
Institutionalized rape
Large-scale torture
The violation of 17 Ch7 UNSCRs
Firing on a no-fly zone established to prevent further genocide
A fake WMD program
All of that gone, it's a new Chapter in Iraq's history - one with hope for development.

AFAICT, most all of that was gone before we invaded.

:shrug:

ecofarm · Jul 23, 2013

Simon W. Moon said:
AFAICT, most all of that was gone before we invaded.

:shrug:

Further genocide was prevented by a no-fly zone (which Saddam fired on). The 400k intentionally starved children was in the years directly before the invasion. The institutionalized rape and large-scale torture was on-going. The fake WMD program was being perpetuated by running inspectors in circles. UNSCRs were still being violated.

Had Saddam turned into an angel?

Simon W. Moon said:
I'll have to get out my crystal ball. I don't use mine as often as you may use yours. Yours seems to get better reception than mine as well.

Forget the crystal ball, get caught up on the facts first.

Unitedwestand13 · Jul 23, 2013

personally we should have burned abu ghraib to the ground and abandoned it, considering what we did to the prisoners there.

ecofarm · Jul 23, 2013

Unitedwestand13 said:
personally we should have burned abu ghraib to the ground and abandoned it, considering what we did to the prisoners there.

"We" didn't do anything to the prisoners. It was a crime and prosecuted as such. Do you refer to others' crimes in the civilian world as your own?

sangha · Jul 23, 2013

MadLib said:
Does anyone honestly think this wouldn't have happened if we didn't invade? It would be only a matter of time before Saddam fell, and after that terrorism, sectarianism and civil war would have occurred anyway. The difference is that we didn't sit by and watch it happen.

I'll add your prediction to The Big List of Right Wing Predictions That FAILED

Unitedwestand13 · Jul 23, 2013

ecofarm said:
Promote genocidal totalitarianism with institutionalized rape much?

Read recent history. Your ignorance regarding the horror of Saddam is grotesque.

considering the choice was between keeping the devil we knew, and unleashing the chaos we did not know, we only have the curse of hindsight.

Unitedwestand13 · Jul 23, 2013

ecofarm said:
"We" didn't do anything to the prisoners. It was a crime and prosecuted as such. Do you refer to others' crimes in the civilian world as your own?

abu ghriab was a military prison.

notquiteright · Jul 23, 2013

shrubnose said:
It's beginning to look like Donald Rumsfeld knew what he was talking about when he said that freedom is messy. He could have added: Especially when it's given to you by men with guns.

Rummy was an ideologue dummy. A better quote would be, "Kicking in an ant mound is messy and the 'liberator' of the ants are going to get bit and attacked as an hostile invader."

Our nation wasn't 'messy' after our revolution, but we were not a cobbled together pseudo nation formed by Colonial powers irrespective of the vast differences in the peoples enclosed with the lines drawn on a map in a European Drawing Room while sipping brandy and smoking fine cigars...

Surtr · Jul 23, 2013

ecofarm said:
"We" didn't do anything to the prisoners. It was a crime and prosecuted as such. Do you refer to others' crimes in the civilian world as your own?

^A million times this^

A group of douchebags doing stupid **** is a group of douchebags doing stupid ****. Do something stupid, and the military will be the first to throw your ass under the bus.

sangha · Jul 23, 2013

Surtr said:
^A million times this^

A group of douchebags doing stupid **** is a group of douchebags doing stupid ****. Do something stupid, and the military will be the first to throw your ass under the bus.

The few who were prosecuted did the same things that many others were ordered to do.

ecofarm · Jul 23, 2013

Unitedwestand13 said:
abu ghriab was a military prison.

Crimes happen in the military, just as they do in the civilian world. If you do not take blame for others' civilian crime, why do so for crimes in the military?

ecofarm · Jul 23, 2013

sangha said:
The few who were prosecuted did the same things that many others were ordered to do.

Citation?

Let me guess... it's a conspiracy and no whistle blowers have come forward.

Surtr · Jul 23, 2013

sangha said:
The few who were prosecuted did the same things that many others were ordered to do.

Which is why the Commander of that facility was removed and punished as well.

apdst · Jul 23, 2013

Aderleth said:
"Hundreds of convicts, including senior members of al-Qaida, broke out of Iraq's Abu Ghraib jail as comrades launched a military-style assault to free them, authorities said on Monday. ...

Suicide bombers drove cars packed with explosives to the gates of the prison on the outskirts of Baghdad on Sunday night and blasted their way into the compound, while gunmen attacked guards with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. Other militants took up positions near the main road, fighting off security reinforcements sent from Baghdad as several militants wearing suicide vests entered the prison on foot to help free the inmates."

Abu Ghraib jail break: al-Qaida attack frees as many as 500 from Abu Ghraib.

All I can say is: Holy ****.

This what we get trying to be nice. We should have executed everyone of these bastards.

Morrigi · Jul 23, 2013

apdst said:
This what we get trying to be nice. We should have executed everyone of these bastards.

And what if it was American troops in a foreign prison camp who were freed by a similar assault? Should they have been executed?

We would do exactly the same thing in their shoes*, though probably with less suicide bombing and "Allahu Akbar".

*Being invaded, having hundreds of fellow countrymen and allies held prisoner, having limited resources and facing a somewhat competent conventional military, etc.

Or a bunch of people would just act like the sheep they are and lay down and die.

polgara · Jul 23, 2013

apdst said:
This what we get trying to be nice. We should have executed everyone of these bastards.

Greetings, apdst. :2wave:

We didn't, so at least 500 that hate us will live to fight another day. Who runs Abu Ghraib?

apdst · Jul 23, 2013

Morrigi said:
And what if it was American troops in a foreign prison camp who were freed by a similar assault? Should they have been executed?

We would do exactly the same thing in their shoes*, though probably with less suicide bombing and "Allahu Akbar".

*Being invaded, having hundreds of fellow countrymen and allies held prisoner, having limited resources and facing a somewhat competent conventional military, etc.

Or a bunch of people would just act like the sheep they are and lay down and die.

That's an assinine comparison. We should have killed these terrorists on the battlefoeld, just like we did SS troops during WW2.

sangha · Jul 23, 2013

ecofarm said:
Citation?

Let me guess... it's a conspiracy and no whistle blowers have come forward.

What did the convicted do that the unindicted didn't?

sangha · Jul 23, 2013

Surtr said:
Which is why the Commander of that facility was removed and punished as well.

AFAIK, the commander wasn't removed and punished for the orders given, but I could be wrong about that

ecofarm · Jul 23, 2013

sangha said:
What did the convicted do that the unindicted didn't?

Do you have evidence that someone tortured people like in Abu Ghraib and was not indicted?

ecofarm · Jul 23, 2013

sangha said:
AFAIK, the commander wasn't removed and punished for the orders given, but I could be wrong about that

The commander was removed and punished for lack of oversight. No such orders were given by the commander.

Jail break at Abu Ghraib

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