• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Driving somewhere? There's a gov't record of that

I don't understand what the issue is here. I'm totally aware of the ramifications of cell phones, etc being surveilled and am totally against any gov't entity doing it. However, if you do something in public you have already surrendered any sort of privacy you can expect to have as a citizen. You committed whatever action we are speaking of in public after all. Whether it's the gossip next door or a traffic camera, you have been seen doing it. If one does not want to be observed driving, don't drive. Get a bike. They don't require a license plate.....yet.

So where will I ride this bike? Could it be somewhere people decided was fine to spy on citizens? :cool: You know, like in the public. :2razz:
 
I don't know, how can I expect privacy in my back yard? Seems pretty public to me. Let's go out and check...

Yup, I'm in the middle of my yard and all sorts of people can see me. Seems pretty public.

So where is my camera? Don't I deserve more love than cameras from space?

If people can see you in your back yard, then that is your issue and if someone saw you committing a crime or took a pic of you back there, there would be nothing you could say about it (as long as it didn't require them going through any extra effort to take that picture (such as entering your yard or standing on something/getting help).
 
If people can see you in your back yard, then that is your issue and if someone saw you committing a crime or took a pic of you back there, there would be nothing you could say about it (as long as it didn't require them going through any extra effort to take that picture (such as entering your yard or standing on something/getting help).

The point was that my backyard is a pretty open space that in no way shape or form could be considered private. How could I expect privacy in my backyard? Of course, in IRL I don't really have any neighbors.
 
Hey, give the government information about you. It's probably a brilliant idea that has no chance of turning out to be really stupid.

God knows what the government could do with my route to work every day... maybe they will plan road work to always make me late?!
 
God knows what the government could do with my route to work every day... maybe they will plan road work to always make me late?!

If you honestly don't understand how information is important than stop posting.
 
This is another polarizing and controversial issue. I just wonder how many of these we're going to go through before every able-minded American agrees that the police, intelligence agencies and intelligence gathering abuses upon us is not okay. I wonder if there even is a consensus point to which we'll all unite.
 
As long as it stops there I don't really have a problem with it. It does serve a public good and it is only recording activity done in public. No safety explanation would justify it if they were recording private activity like this though.
 
Sorry, but the government must warrant it's actions, not the other way around. I don't need to make an argument on they can't do something, they must tell me why they can. Saying that I can't expect privacy in a given situation is not good enough. They should not be able to log my daily affairs and keep them on record nor should they be able to watch me on the street with devices for police purposes. If they want to watch me they can get out there and put cops on the streets. I imagine a cop on every corner and not a camera though will make people like yourself start thinking to.

Typical Libertarian. Nobody is logging whatever bars you go to, what chicks you're screwing or who it is you're nice to on the street. Nobody, other than you, cares about your life.

Seriously, are you even listening to yourself? What? You think they just started taking pictures of your car today? They've been doing that for 20 years. You can't go to a liquor store without being filmed by 3 cameras. If you committed a crime tomorrow in some small town with 5 cameras, by Monday morning there would be 100 cops tracking down the whereabouts of your car.

So what exactly is it you're against? Being filmed by cameras which make it easier to track you down? Easier than the models who have been taking videos of you for the past 20 years? Well, lol, alright. 10 years from now these models will be in every mom and pop convenience store because they'll be made affordable by your sacrosanct supply and demand. Then what? You'll be against mom and pop stores having their cameras hooked up to police stations?
 
Last edited:
Typical Libertarian. Nobody is logging whatever bars you go to, what chicks you're screwing or who it is you're nice to on the street. Nobody, other than you, cares about your life.

Except that these cameras provide them information on who I'm with, what I'm doing, and where I'm going. There is an absolute ton of information these cameras provide the state.

Seriously, are you even listening to yourself? What? You think they just started taking pictures of your car today? They've been doing that for 20 years. You can't go to a liquor store without being filmed by 3 cameras. If you committed a crime tomorrow in some small town with 5 cameras, by Monday morning there would be 100 cops tracking down the whereabouts of your car.

I'm aware of all of this and the time period something has been going on doesn't mean anything to me. It's something that should have never been permitted and it's a good time as any to put a stop to it.

So what exactly is it you're against? Being filmed by cameras which make it easier to track you down? Easier than the models who have been taking videos of you for the past 20 years? Well, lol, alright. 10 years from now these models will be in every mom and pop convenience store because they'll be made affordable by your sacrosanct supply and demand. Then what? You'll be against mom and pop stores having their cameras hooked up to police stations?

Yes, I will be against the police getting information from mom and pop stores unless a crime was committed like always.
 
Last edited:
Could you imagine man power needed to actually monitor all of that supposed collected and stored information? Lets just look at one city for example. How many vehicles are moving about at any given time in somewhere like Los Angeles? Sure they might have that info somewhere but I doubt they will ever do anything with it.

ANd I know people that literally drive in circles for hours for entertainment, they call it cruising. Cruising alone would log thousands of hours of information to mix. They would need a reason to piece together what one driver was doing. It would be a impossible job to keep tabs on everyone's vehicles. Even with special software you would still need a reason to bother.
 
I want to know what freedom you all feel is being restricted by these images being taken. Your car is in public. It aids in preventing and stopping crimes. What exactly is it hurting? How is it violating any specific right of any individual?

Looks at the data, they have to scan millions of plate to catch 100 crooks. It's ridiculous. We don't have to justify what freedom we've lost, the police have to justify spending out tax dollars; and don't forget that.
 
Who cares if my car is outside in the public? Why does the government need to be taking pictures of it and then storing that on file??

It completely disgusts me that people are fine with being spied on if it stops crime.

Its part of that "I got nothing to hide so its okay if...." mentality that some sheeple have.
 
Its part of that "I got nothing to hide so its okay if...." mentality that some sheeple have.

These clowns have huge balls asking us to justify why we should be able to keep our liberties. Who the hell do they think they are?
 
So where will I ride this bike? Could it be somewhere people decided was fine to spy on citizens? :cool: You know, like in the public. :2razz:
Sure. But they can't track progress of your bike by license plate because it doesn't have one. It seems that is your hang up so I gave you a solution.
 
I sense that many on this thread that have a problem with this would be very thankful if their kidnapped child or stolen car was returned due to the usage of cameras. Again, this isn't private data that the gov't is hoarding. It is something you do in public. It's something that you have already acknowledged is okay to do in front of other people. Could it be abused? Sure. I'm not acting as if it couldn't. However, there are many things we trust the gov't with that could be abused ie the military, our tax money (holy crap do they abuse that), etc. Part of our gov't system involves trust. Our gov't does not deserve any right now, but that's the way it is.
 
I hate to even slight agree with Herin, but...

Joko...I posted a thread apology for hitting Henrin for that comment in this thread....and I sent him a PM making another apology for bringing up the issue in really what is an inappropriate thread. He didn't respond so....??? I tried to be a gentleman about it. Oh well. :roll:

I really did think that he support the issue. Apparently I was wrong. But again, this was not the forum to hit him with my comment.
 
Last edited:
Could you imagine man power needed to actually monitor all of that supposed collected and stored information?
In this day and age, it's probably rather cheap to keep all that info on file. You could have OCR software that converts the plates into text, and adds it to a searchable database.
 
I sense that many on this thread that have a problem with this would be very thankful if their kidnapped child or stolen car was returned due to the usage of cameras. Again, this isn't private data that the gov't is hoarding. It is something you do in public. It's something that you have already acknowledged is okay to do in front of other people. Could it be abused? Sure. I'm not acting as if it couldn't. However, there are many things we trust the gov't with that could be abused ie the military, our tax money (holy crap do they abuse that), etc. Part of our gov't system involves trust. Our gov't does not deserve any right now, but that's the way it is.

Do it for the children, the other most used reason for giving in. The data does not support a massive benefit. It shows that by collection gazillions of bits of data, we've apprehended virtually a handful of people. And you're right, trusting the government is difficult and should be.
 
Do it for the children, the other most used reason for giving in. The data does not support a massive benefit.
What "data" are you looking at?
 
In this day and age, it's probably rather cheap to keep all that info on file. You could have OCR software that converts the plates into text, and adds it to a searchable database.

Ok but then what are they going to do with readily obvious patterns of behavior? They government cant (according to the Constitution) restrict your movements so whats the point?

So what if they know where I go? Are private investigators breaking the law?

Specifically the claim is big brother, but what does that mean? What Constitutional laws would be broken by having information that places a license plate at a certain location at a certain time? I suspect its the actions that could be done having that information that is the concern. So it isnt really having that information on file somewhere thats the problem its what could be done with that information. But what could be done with that information is the question?

Most people live mundane boring lives. They drive to the store visit friends and gas stations. Perhaps go on vacations. Its really not anything that having that information would be relevant to anyone, but perhaps the person that owns the car. It would be a good service actually, you could look at the records and be able to say yea I was there on time but you were not. But then cell phones with GPS can already do that.

It just makes one wonder what people are doing that they are afraid of law enforcement knowing.

Personally I live in a not so populated area. Once I leave town there isnt any patrol cars to capture my location. And sometimes in town you hardly see a cop car.

I also know that the local law enforcement keep tabs on peoples property. That way they can issue a ticket if you do something against a ordinance. Our right to privacy isnt really that big and never has been. The reason is because most things that we do are done in the public. Driving a car is only done in the public. So what if they know where you go and when. Its the why that is the concern.
 
Its part of that "I got nothing to hide so its okay if...." mentality that some sheeple have.

I don't really think that's the case here. I've seen most people on this thread at least arguing that if you have something to hide, then you shouldn't be doing it in public. It's not like the NSA and cell phones. Unless you're in a public place you have a reasonable expectation of privacy when talking on your phone. Even though it wouldn't affect me because I don't have something to hide, it still isn't justified because I could reasonably expect privacy there. On the other hand I shouldn't have an expectation of privacy when I drive around in public.
 
The scariest part of all of this is the fact that there are so many people that see data mining and the technology used to gather it as some sort of static endeavor that doesn't go anywhere or lead to anything. You are mistaken. Not only are they mining data, they're constantly developing more advanced and effective ways of doing it. This stuff gets more and more sophisticated every day as technology advances. Look at what they're able to do today as opposed to 50 years ago. Does anyone doubt that 50 years from now they'll be able to do things that make what is possible today seem primitive?

It's not the place in the road that we are today, it's the direction that the road takes us that is the real danger.
 
Ok but then what are they going to do with readily obvious patterns of behavior?
There's no evidence they are actively using this information to predict driving patterns, let alone other types of behavior.


Specifically the claim is big brother, but what does that mean?
Not much. 1984 was rather specifically anti-Stalinist and anti-police state. (Orwell was actually a socialist, btw.) Most people only have a vague idea of what 1984 is actually about.


What Constitutional laws would be broken by having information that places a license plate at a certain location at a certain time?
None.


what could be done with that information is the question?
Beats me. There's no indication that municipalities are reporting this to the NSA.
 
Back
Top Bottom