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Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions[W:240]

Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

What is it about the fact that most abortions are performed in countries where it is illegal that escapes you? Does that make you want abortions illegal here too?

The article was clear: there is NO CAUSATION between legal abortion and the rate of abortions. The only causation illustrated by the study is that of access to birth control decreasing unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions - which any moron could deduce without a study.

The study is useless. Everyone knows that access to birth control will reduce unwanted pregnancies.

It's nothing but a misleading title. Correlation does not equal causation. Do you understand?
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

If it's so rare, why is everybody losing their ****? I don't support any elective abortions past 12 weeks. After that, exceptions should be made for medical cases of the mother or extreme deformities for the child.

If elective abortions simply aren't happening late, there should be no problem restricting them. I think most of you are just afraid it will prevent women who have medical cases or fetuses with deformities from getting an abortion. We should structure our laws so that this is not the case. Simply allowing all abortions with zero oversight is not the solution to make that happen.



Ok? The morning after is still available. If they want an abortion later than that, they need to find a clinic that can meet the regulations.

Making laws that pretend to safeguard womens health when they are in fact aimed at restricting the availability of safe abortions are nothing but despicable.
There is nothing in that bill that can be proven to address a REAL woman's health problem and it needs to be struck down and it will be.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Great...you figure out a way to fund "The Bedroom Sex Monitoring Police" nation-wide and I'll give you all of the moral support I can muster.

You don't need the "BSMP". All you need to do is to say.... "No Abortions except for Rape Victims* and in cases where the Mother's Life is in Immediate Danger**"

* = After the victim has filed the appropriate police reports and agreed to assist in the prosecution and testify against her assailant

** = In cases where the mother's LIFE (not health) are threatened by the continuation of the pregmancy, as determined by at least two doctors, one of which cannot be her PCP.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Making laws that pretend to safeguard womens health when they are in fact aimed at restricting the availability of safe abortions are nothing but despicable.
There is nothing in that bill that can be proven to address a REAL woman's health problem and it needs to be struck down and it will be.

I don't think any of us are pretending this is about women's health. It's about protecting those that can't protect themselves.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

I'm not saying they're happening in large numbers, never have. It's not often that somebody is stabbed in the face with a pencil. Should it be legal to do because it doesn't happen often?

You still never answered my questions.

- If it never happens, why is it a big deal if it's outlawed?
- Why can't we just reform the law so that medical exceptions are always allowed?

When we know that there is no "statistically significant" problem....and there's a lot of evidence to show that what most often claim is some horrible everyday ongoing events of abortion that are nothing but acts that reflect total irresponsibility...isn't true.

Bush himself pushed for and got the Partial Birth Act passed in 2004.

Let's toss out the emotionalism...and talk about true facts regarding abortion

Pro-birth advocates simply don't want any abortion to occur. Yes, some make exceptions. But most don't and will go to any length to end abortion.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

You don't need the "BSMP". All you need to do is to say.... "No Abortions except for Rape Victims* and in cases where the Mother's Life is in Immediate Danger**"

* = After the victim has filed the appropriate police reports and agreed to assist in the prosecution and testify against her assailant

** = In cases where the mother's LIFE (not health) are threatened by the continuation of the pregmancy, as determined by at least two doctors, one of which cannot be her PCP.

Tigger...the Texas State Legislators are way ahead of you. They like punitive measures, much like you do. So I suspect if our moral fascists who control the Texas government can, they will force all women in Texas to have tests monthly to see if they are pregnant and if they test positive they will be sent to birthing compounds and be held there until they actually give birth. That way they can completely make sure that no abortion ever occurs.

Meanwhile back at the capitol of Texas, they work vigorously to revamp the education system even more than they have to ensure that no science or civic classes or taught...and the majority of their curriculum will be course on creationism.

And they have been working extra hard to end most social programs which are for born children who are born into poverty, or suffer from abuse, abandonment, neglect and medical services.

Texas legislators should be made saints by the catholic church.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

When we know that there is no "statistically significant" problem....and there's a lot of evidence to show that what most often claim is some horrible everyday ongoing events of abortion that are nothing but acts that reflect total irresponsibility...isn't true.

Bush himself pushed for and got the Partial Birth Act passed in 2004.

Let's toss out the emotionalism...and talk about true facts regarding abortion

Pro-birth advocates simply don't want any abortion to occur. Yes, some make exceptions. But most don't and will go to any length to end abortion.

So you're refusing a second time to answer the questions?
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Tigger...the Texas State Legislators are way ahead of you. They like punitive measures, much like you do. So I suspect if our moral fascists who control the Texas government can, they will force all women in Texas to have tests monthly to see if they are pregnant and if they test positive they will be sent to birthing compounds and be held there until they actually give birth. That way they can completely make sure that no abortion ever occurs.

Meanwhile back at the capitol of Texas, they work vigorously to revamp the education system even more than they have to ensure that no science or civic classes or taught...and the majority of their curriculum will be course on creationism.

And they have been working extra hard to end most social programs which are for born children who are born into poverty, or suffer from abuse, abandonment, neglect and medical services.

Texas legislators should be made saints by the catholic church.

Trust me, if I could get my fiance to agree and I could find a job down there, I'd be there in an instant.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Tigger...the Texas State Legislators are way ahead of you. They like punitive measures, much like you do. So I suspect if our moral fascists who control the Texas government can, they will force all women in Texas to have tests monthly to see if they are pregnant and if they test positive they will be sent to birthing compounds and be held there until they actually give birth. That way they can completely make sure that no abortion ever occurs.

Meanwhile back at the capitol of Texas, they work vigorously to revamp the education system even more than they have to ensure that no science or civic classes or taught...and the majority of their curriculum will be course on creationism.

And they have been working extra hard to end most social programs which are for born children who are born into poverty, or suffer from abuse, abandonment, neglect and medical services.

Texas legislators should be made saints by the catholic church.


Wow. "Trollo-lol-lol-lol, lol-lol-lol, lol-lol-lol, law-law-law-lawl..."

Birthing internment camps. Ayup. He went there. :roll:
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

So you're refusing a second time to answer the questions?

No RA...I'm not. Give me a minute to read back. I do try to be a credible, responsible person an poster in DP...and elsewhere. Hang on...
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Trust me, if I could get my fiance to agree and I could find a job down there, I'd be there in an instant.

Thata boy...I knew you would love to be involved. ;)
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

If it's so rare, why is everybody losing their ****? I don't support any elective abortions past 12 weeks. After that, exceptions should be made for medical cases of the mother or extreme deformities for the child.

If elective abortions simply aren't happening late, there should be no problem restricting them. .

And the main reason why the courts keep striking down laws which restrict an abortion before 22 weeks gestation is because those laws do not make exceptions for fetal or genetic abnormalities even if the fetus will be so malformed it will not survive.

Ultrasound tests for fetal abnormalities cannot be performed before 18 weeks then if something wrong is detected then take an amino test at 20 weeks.

If the abortion cutoff is at or before 20 weeks gestion women will not be able to have an abortion even if her doctor highly recommends one.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

And the main reason why the courts keep striking down laws which restrict an abortion before 22 weeks gestation is because those laws do not make exceptions for fetal or genetic abnormalities even if the fetus will be so malformed it will not survive.

Ultrasound tests for fetal abnormalities cannot be performed before 18 weeks then if something wrong is detected then take an amino test at 20 weeks.

If the abortion cutoff is at or before 20 weeks gestion women will not be able to have an abortion even if her doctor highly recommends one.

Then the laws should be amended to allow for medical exceptions if they don't already (most do). Your solution is to just allow everybody to have late term abortions even if there's nothing wrong with the fetus.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

I'm not saying they're happening in large numbers, never have. It's not often that somebody is stabbed in the face with a pencil. Should it be legal to do because it doesn't happen often?

You still never answered my questions.

- If it never happens, why is it a big deal if it's outlawed?
- Why can't we just reform the law so that medical exceptions are always allowed?

Here's the only way I can answer this. I support boundaries being set, with regard to viability. We know that a fetus can't survive outside the womb at 20 weeks. But, we also know that a 20 week plus abortions aren't common-place and is usually is for reasons related to defective fetuses or life or serious health issues of the mom. So I don't want to outlaw any provisions that would even cause disputes which would put a woman's life in harms way.

Am I going to be bent over a 20 week limit. Not really because I know that they are rare...and women aren't being so irresponsible that it's common for such abortions to occur.

And sticking with what we know to be true...over 85% of abortions occur much, much sooner than 20 plus weeks. Almost half of that stage. In other words...there is no crisis with 20 plus week abortions...just for the sake of convenience. Most doctors don't want to engage in a practice where they will be involved in late term abortions.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Then the laws should be amended to allow for medical exceptions if they don't already (most do). Your solution is to just allow everybody to have late term abortions even if there's nothing wrong with the fetus.

No that is not my solution.
No most abortion restriction laws in the USA do not take into account a malformed fetus.

I miscarried a very malformed fetus at 20 weeks gestation.
I was very lucky that my body went into early labor and expelled it naturally or I would have had to a late term abortion or taken the chance I would have had an infection that would made me sterile or even perhaps have cost me my life.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Unfortunately limiting the number of clinics to 4 will have a disasterous effect on abortions in Texas putting back room abortions all over the state.

I would like to see us limit them to zero!
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Wow. "Trollo-lol-lol-lol, lol-lol-lol, lol-lol-lol, law-law-law-lawl..."

Birthing internment camps. Ayup. He went there. :roll:

My goodness, Jay...aren't you being the love bug this morning!
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

No that is not my solution.
No most abortion restriction laws in the USA do not take into account a malformed fetus.

I miscarried a very malformed fetus at 20 weeks gestation.
I was very lucky that my body went into early labor and expelled it naturally or I would have had to a late term abortion or taken the chance I would have had an infection that would made me sterile or even perhaps have cost me my life.
Here's the only way I can answer this. I support boundaries being set, with regard to viability. We know that a fetus can't survive outside the womb at 20 weeks. But, we also know that a 20 week plus abortions aren't common-place and is usually is for reasons related to defective fetuses or life or serious health issues of the mom. So I don't want to outlaw any provisions that would even cause disputes which would put a woman's life in harms way.

Am I going to be bent over a 20 week limit. Not really because I know that they are rare...and women aren't being so irresponsible that it's common for such abortions to occur.

And sticking with what we know to be true...over 85% of abortions occur much, much sooner than 20 plus weeks. Almost half of that stage. In other words...there is no crisis with 20 plus week abortions...just for the sake of convenience. Most doctors don't want to engage in a practice where they will be involved in late term abortions.

Correct me if I'm completely wrong on this, but it seems like both of you wouldn't necessarily find it a bad thing for an earlier elective cutoff if 100% of medical/deformity situations could be exempted, correct? It seems far more that you are concerned about abnormal conditions.

My plan would be such:

- Any elective abortions up to 12 weeks completely legal
- Any abortions after 12 weeks must be either for major fetus deformities or for real medical danger for the mother. The applicability in these situations would be determined by doctors bound by a loose legal framework.

What would be the problem with this? Any extraneous situations would be covered, and normal elective abortions would be limited after 12 weeks. Is there any reason why a perfectly healthy woman with a perfectly healthy baby needs to wait 12-24 weeks to make a decision?
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

My plan would be on demand for the first 12 weeks.
Between doctor and patient for the next 8 weeks.
And for fetal or genetic malformations , danger to the life or irreparable damage to a major bodily function of the woman after 20 weeks gestation.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

I would like to see us limit them to zero!

Yeah put them back in the back rooms with untrained hacks. That will solve the problem for you. You can pretend that abortions aren't happening.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

If it's so rare, why is everybody losing their ****? I don't support any elective abortions past 12 weeks. After that, exceptions should be made for medical cases of the mother or extreme deformities for the child.

If elective abortions simply aren't happening late, there should be no problem restricting them. I think most of you are just afraid it will prevent women who have medical cases or fetuses with deformities from getting an abortion. We should structure our laws so that this is not the case. Simply allowing all abortions with zero oversight is not the solution to make that happen.




Ok? The morning after is still available. If they want an abortion later than that, they need to find a clinic that can meet the regulations.

There are none in Texas under the new law.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

Obviously that's not true otherwise you'd support the bill.

Liar. Extreme liar in your message about me and my message history.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

They're not waiting until it's more expensive. It becomes more expensive as they wait. However, it doesn't become so expensive that it's unreachable. For example: Imagine you want to buy X on week Z. However, the longer you wait, the more X goes up in value. Only the rising of this value is not so high that you don't catch up to it by week Y.

So using numbers: Say that before week 4 an abortion costs 400. A woman is not able to afford an abortion within the first 4 weeks because she can only put away 50$ a week. By week 8, the abortion cost goes up to 450. The woman by week 8 is still not able to afford it. However, by week 9, she's gathered enough money to afford it.

4weeks x 50 = $200 : Abortion cost 400. - She can't afford it.
8weeks x 50 = $400 : Abortion cost 450 - She can't afford it.

9th week: Woman has gotten 450 dollars - she can afford it however at a higher price than if she had gotten it in week 4.


To figure the cost of an abortion under the new Texas law, you have to calculate the costs of traveling to another state into that and traveling to the airport or driving over 1000 miles round trip to do so - and then the cost of the abortion in that state.
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

There are none in Texas under the new law.

Short little ambiguous one-liners are not a rebuttal. I don't even know what you're talking about. None of what? Abortion clinics? Morning after pills? Abortions? Abortion pills? Laws?
 
Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

joko, the answer is very simple..... IF YOU CAN'T SUPPORT THE CHILD YOU MIGHT CREATE - DON'T HAVE THE SEX THAT MIGHT CREATE IT!!!!!

Easy for a person who doesn't have sex to propose? :roll:
 
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