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Walmart says it will kill plans to build 3 new stores if DC wage bill passes

polgara said:
Blaxshep, your argument is not with me. I agree with you. So how do we provide those jobs that pay a living wage, when businesses are apprehensive about their future?
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Tie maximum wage to minimum wage (I have read a couple of discussions on this and the consensus is that no one in a corporation should make more than 15X the minimum wage being paid by the corporation.) and we will all have to pay more for our goods and services but eliminating the government as the wealth distributor via entitlements should be far less than what we pay in taxes now.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, consumers benefit from buying domestic product by having the profits remain with the country.

Allowing below cost products to gain market share destroys domestic manufacturing, wipes out domestic jobs. It is a race to the bottom that only benefits the international corporation.

But being a libertarian, you are in favor of international corporations doing this.
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Not really. For starters, we're already about 90% of the value chain, even if the t-shirt is made in China. They produce for Pennies on the Dollar, compared to retail price. Check to see if companies like Walmart, Home Depot, etc, are turning a profit or merely transferring wealth to China.

Moreover, consumers win with lower end-user prices. Plus employment is higher, since more units are sold driving higher employment in services, which cannot be outsourced. Pay a checkout person in Malaysia 25 cents a day, and it still doesn't ring up a purchase at Walmart in Gainesville Texas. So we're kicking but and taking names in service jobs, doing better all the time. Problem is, like manufacturing workers before unions demanded more pay for the same work, they're paid too little.
 
Henrin said:
What is in the best interest of the consumer? Paying more for a product or less? Like it or not, paying less at the store is in the interest of the consumer as it allows their income to go further. Besides, paying more at the store doesn't mean they will in turn be paid more, nor does it mean they will be able to buy as much as they could before, but then it doesn't mean they will be able to buy less automatically either. The fact is that for the consumer there is no reason to pay more when they could just as easily pay less. The fact is one of the keys to success is being able to provide a product for cheaper than your competitor.
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Ah, but it does mean that the manufacturing job remains in the US.

We do not protect our domestic manufacturing, we allow international retailers/manufacturers to capture market share by undercutting domestic suppliers. This has happened for decades, fabric, radios, tv's, cars, optics, IC's....every industry has suffered the same fate because we allow the corporations to do this.

Consumers do not make the best choice, often they make a choice against their own interests, especially when wages have not kept pace with productivity.
 
Sisyphus said:
Not really. For starters, we're already about 90% of the value chain, even if the t-shirt is made in China. They produce for Pennies on the Dollar, compared to retail price. Check to see if companies like Walmart, Home Depot, etc, are turning a profit or merely transferring wealth to China.

Moreover, consumers win with lower end-user prices. Plus employment is higher, since more units are sold driving higher employment in services, which cannot be outsourced. Pay a checkout person in Malaysia 25 cents a day, and it still doesn't ring up a purchase at Walmart in Gainesville Texas. So we're kicking but and taking names in service jobs, doing better all the time. Problem is, like manufacturing workers before unions demanded more pay for the same work, they're paid too little.
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No, you are wrong for the same reasons already stated, when the jobs leave the country and wages do not keep pace, you end up with a lower and lower bar. It is a race to the bottom, we have been experiencing it for decades.
 
polgara said:
:funnypost: Or from the other side of the aisle, like debating Lefties! :lamo:
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Doesn't wash, nor transpose. For example, have some folks show up and get Nobels, it's awash with Libbies.

Then you go to a Special Olympics, and the only folks dumber than the athletes? Cons, 99% of the time.

Not trying to pick on anyone. Merely keep it real. ;) ;)
 
I'm not going to chime in about the bill itself, but I think that if the locally owned business can deal with the hike, Wal-Mart can. Just a guess though.

Edit: My apologies, I didn't understand the full content of the bill. Disregard the OP.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
Ah, but it does mean that the manufacturing job remains in the US.
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You're assuming we need to maintain these jobs. If you can outsource certain fields to focus your attention on other ventures it can only lead to growth of your economy. There is no reason to protect manufacturing when other parts of the world can handle those tasks for us. It's just a way to hold back the economy from growth and development.

We do not protect our domestic manufacturing, we allow international retailers/manufacturers to capture market share by undercutting domestic suppliers. This has happened for decades, fabric, radios, tv's, cars, optics, IC's....every industry has suffered the same fate because we allow the corporations to do this.
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Why should we? If they can not compete with the world market why then should they survive?

Consumers do not make the best choice, often they make a choice against their own interests, especially when wages have not kept pace with productivity.
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You're assuming that manufacturing jobs is in their interest.
 
We've also all seen the comparisons between Wal-Mart based employees (Sam's Club) and Costco based employees and the how Wal-Mart pays federal minimum wage to their employees and sees a sliver of the profit per employee that Costco sees from their higher paid and well compensated workers.
 
iacardsfan said:
I'm not going to chime in about the bill itself, but I think that if the locally owned business can deal with the hike, Wal-Mart can. Just a guess though.
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Maybe you should chime in as the new bill is targeted at specific businesses not your average local business...
 
blaxshep said:
Tie maximum wage to minimum wage (I have read a couple of discussions on this and the consensus is that no one in a corporation should make more than 15X the minimum wage being paid by the corporation.) and we will all have to pay more for our goods and services but eliminating the government as the wealth distributor via entitlements should be far less than what we pay in taxes now.
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I have also seen arguments that state that increasing the minimum wage is a losing proposition--the reason being that everything is going to cost more, so while there will be people with more money in their pocket, it's only until they go shopping for anything.

In a thousand years, I don't envision corporations agreeing to limit their salary range to 15x the minimum wage! Why should they? They will doubtless all relocate offshore instead, and only become wealthier in the process, IMO. :shrug:
 
iacardsfan said:
I'm not going to chime in about the bill itself, but I think that if the locally owned business can deal with the hike, Wal-Mart can. Just a guess though.
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Locally owned businesses are immune to the hike. Only large retail chains are affected.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Maybe you should chime in as the new bill is targeted at specific businesses not your average local business...
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I was just informed about not fully understanding the bill. My apologies.
 
iacardsfan said:
We've also all seen the comparisons between Wal-Mart based employees (Sam's Club) and Costco based employees and the how Wal-Mart pays federal minimum wage to their employees and sees a sliver of the profit per employee that Costco sees from their higher paid and well compensated workers.
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Costco hires far fewer workers and purposely loses money on their sales, but makes up for it in membership fees. If you want fewer people employed, then sure, let's have everyone follow Costcos business model.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
No, you are wrong for the same reasons already stated, when the jobs leave the country and wages do not keep pace, you end up with a lower and lower bar. It is a race to the bottom, we have been experiencing it for decades.
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Okay. Wages suck because kids in Malaysia make our wife-beater Ts. Why they didn't cover that when I was at Foster (UW) is a mystery to me.

Now then, back to market dynamics and economics not taught on Limbaugh's radio program: value-chain. You spend a buck. Where's it distributed? Mostly us, paying folks here, to get it from port into the nifty little bag, which you should recycle, cuz we Libbies get all lovey dovey about. Plus, units rule, since it takes folks to move more products, unit wise. And a refer made here, which at end user level, might be $3000 at the lower end, sell about 1/3 as many units as one selling for $1100, made in South Korea, and being pretty amazing good. So great. A manufacturing worker gets a job, but fewer truckers, warehouse, stockers, retailers are needed, further down the value chain. It's a net loss in jobs.

Plus, the notion that somehow manufacturing jobs are the ultimate, is pure nonsense. They made squat too, until unions forced more pay for the same work, and now they have paychecks local businesses and markets had come to rely on. Pay service workers the same, and bingo, problem solved, and we have tons of them -- and they cannot be outsourced!!!!

Glory Days 2.0, only more glorious.

In short, you're value is not what you do; its' what you make (and spend, into our economy).

Simple truth.
 
Sisyphus said:
Yeah; I picked up on that. I have a keen intellect (learned to read)

My question is what in particular supported your contention, and how so? I'm seeing no mutuality, and am hoping you can help me out.

TIA,

-S
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My view is that Wal-Mart has acted with business acumen and rationality to optimize their business success, and in so doing have provided a unique service to the poor. I do not claim they had altruistic intent, only that their outcome has benefited downscale consumers. "Private vice is often public virtue.":peace
 
Henrin said:
Costco hires far fewer workers and loses money on their sales, but makes up for it in membership fees. If you want less people employed, then sure, let everyone follow Costcos business model.
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What good does it do to have 3 entire stores with workers that are living below the poverty line and making less profit than somebody that is living much more comfortably. I understand people are taking any job they can get at this point but Costco is clearly benefiting greatly from this model.
 
Henrin said:
Costco hires far fewer workers and purposely loses money on their sales, but makes up for it in membership fees. If you want fewer people employed, then sure, let's have everyone follow Costcos business model.
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Absurd. 4th largest retailer in America. Profitable as all get out. Pays above industry wages, and has double the sales of Sam's Club. Also a local bit of pride: I live in Kirkland WA, where Costco is HQ'd (ergo, Kirkland Brand)
 
Sisyphus said:
Absurd. 4th largest retailer in America. Profitable as all get out. Pays above industry wages, and has double the sales of Sam's Club. Also a local bit of pride: I live in Kirkland WA, where Costco is HQ'd (ergo, Kirkland Brand)
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Nothing I said is absurd. They pay more, but they hire fewer workers. It's a function of their business model.
 
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