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U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

Thanks for the reminder, Sheik.

Rather like today's Democrat Party blaming the do nothing Congress on Republicans when there are bills passed by the GOP House sitting in the desk of Harry Reid yet Republicans get the blame. What you and others want to do is to continue to divert from the Obama record. We are four years after the end of the recession and the economic growth is stagnant, job growth poor, debt massive and the best you and others can do is go back to the sub prime crisis and blame Republicans for the economic results today? What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty? Maybe take a civics class to understand how Congress works.
 
Thanks for the reminder, Sheik.

LOL !!

Yea because thats all you need, a reminder that suites your corrupted world view.

Even if its out of context.

HR1461 was a bill created by Republicans, that made it through a Republican chaired Comittee that the Democrats threatened to Fillibuster as they ran out the clock on the Senates session.

With only a 55 vote majority, the Republicans needed 5 DEMOCRATS to step up and make it Fillibuster proof.

Not ONE useless Democrat politician stepped up.

Hey here's another reminder.

That bill was re-introduced in 2007 to a DEMOCRAT chaired Commitee.

What happened in that Committee ? What happened to the 2007 Bill ?

Cmon Libs, keep talking about the Sub-Prime Collapse, the Democrat mandated Bubble so I can thoroughly slap down your nonsense.
 
LOL !!

Yea because thats all you need, a reminder that suites your corrupted world view.

Even if its out of context.

HR1461 was a bill created by Republicans, that made it through a Republican chaired Comittee that the Democrats threatened to Fillibuster as they ran out the clock on the Senates session.

With only a 55 vote majority, the Republicans needed 5 DEMOCRATS to step up and make it Fillibuster proof.

Not ONE useless Democrat politician stepped up.

Hey here's another reminder.

That bill was re-introduced in 2007 to a DEMOCRAT chaired Commitee.

What happened in that Committee ? What happened to the 2007 Bill ?

Cmon Libs, keep talking about the Sub-Prime Collapse, the Democrat mandated Bubble so I can thoroughly slap down your nonsense.

No, they will do what they always do, ignore the facts and stay quiet only to come back later with the same old rhetoric bashing Bush for the economic results today, four years after the end of the recession and 4 1/2 years into the Obama Presidency. Obama supporters will always run when challenged but then like a pack of wolves high five each other when they think they have a winning argument. Obamabots will never have a winning argument with this empty suit who lacks the leadership skills and experience to be in the WH. He does take great vacations though and is working on joining the PGA tour when his term is up. Oh, by the way, he does have a great smile and the gift of gab with a teleprompter in front of him
 
No, they will do what they always do, ignore the facts and stay quiet only to come back later with the same old rhetoric bashing Bush for the economic results today, four years after the end of the recession and 4 1/2 years into the Obama Presidency. Obama supporters will always run when challenged but then like a pack of wolves high five each other when they think they have a winning argument. Obamabots will never have a winning argument with this empty suit who lacks the leadership skills and experience to be in the WH. He does take great vacations though and is working on joining the PGA tour when his term is up. Oh, by the way, he does have a great smile and the gift of gab with a teleprompter in front of him

Why has the majority of your thread contribution been aimed at discrediting the current administration? Nowhere in the OP or the source it is in reference to do we see any mention of Obama.

And yet you have what, at least 50 Obama/Democrat/liberals dedicated posts?

We also know why; every time good economic news is released, you and your ilk continue to downplay it as though it is meaningless.
 
LOL !!

Yea because thats all you need, a reminder that suites your corrupted world view.

Even if its out of context.

HR1461 was a bill created by Republicans, that made it through a Republican chaired Comittee that the Democrats threatened to Fillibuster as they ran out the clock on the Senates session.

With only a 55 vote majority, the Republicans needed 5 DEMOCRATS to step up and make it Fillibuster proof.

Not ONE useless Democrat politician stepped up.

Hey here's another reminder.

That bill was re-introduced in 2007 to a DEMOCRAT chaired Commitee.

What happened in that Committee ? What happened to the 2007 Bill ?

Cmon Libs, keep talking about the Sub-Prime Collapse, the Democrat mandated Bubble so I can thoroughly slap down your nonsense.
,

From the AEI.
H.R. 1461: A GSE "Reform" That Is Worse than Current Law - Economics - AEI
 
Rather like today's Democrat Party blaming the do nothing Congress on
Republicans when there are bills passed by the GOP House sitting in the desk of Harry Reid yet Republicans get the blame. What you and others want to do is to continue to divert from the Obama record. We are four years after the end of the recession and the economic growth is stagnant, job growth poor, debt massive and the best you and others can do is go back to the sub prime crisis and blame Republicans for the economic results today? What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty? Maybe take a civics class to understand how Congress works.

Its one long nightmare, one long big F-up by the Dems.

From the early 90s allowing Community Orginizations like ACORN to influence policy, to lowering 100 year old Standards on the banks and 60 year old standards on Fannie Mae, to the appointment of DEMOCRAT CRIMINALS to run the GSEs like ENRON to Obama's disasterous economy.

From the Sub-Prime Collapse to Obama's stupid Green Jobs ininiative to the Democrats destructive Health Care Legislation this has been one long DEMOCRAT disaster in the making.

And its easily traced back with plenty of objective data to back it up.

ACORN ran a article in The Chicago Sun Times in 1994 that basically said if your credit sucks, if youv'e had a bankruptcy it doesn't matter, contact us and we'll get you a home loan.

Clintons 1995 Home-Ownership Strategy made public ANY banks CRA score so they could be targeted by Community Action Groups.

When Janet Reno wasn't giving the order to burn alive nearly a hundred innocent Americans in Waco, she was publicly threatening banks that wouldn't play ball.

Hell, Obama as a Attorney in Chicago used to go around jacking banks under the false pretense of " discriminatory " practices.

One massive failure after the other.
 
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Lets get back to this nonsense again.
Hint: When starting a conversation with someone you never met before, it is generally a bad idea to begin with an insult. You get off on the wrong foot.
Strike one.

The Food Stamp President, Obama, has set all kinds of records for dollar amounts and number of people receiving such handouts.
"Here are the keys to the house you won, sorry about the fire".


If it was such a stimulus how come the economy is still in the tank?
Well, if you had been reading through the thread, you would have caught on to the fact that it was pretty small in all sorts of measures, but most importantly, it was small in relation to the size of the collapse.

Goes back to government spending in general. If a countries wealth and economic condition depended on government spending, all countries would be very wealthy and enjoy nothing but economic good times. Especially the good old USA. Even today, we'd be in the best of times. It is of course, complete nonsense to think that government spending is going to produce good economic times as government produces practically nothing. It is a taker, not a producer. For every dollar it takes from someone who actually earned it, it also loses some of its value in overhead costs which are running wild these days. So it doesn't even come close to outputting anywhere near a dollar out that it took in. Long term, counting on government spending to help the economy along is a fools errand.
Ah, you are confusing a set of actions designed to counteract an economic collapse...with policy for "normal" (not collapsing) conditions. There was never an assumption on my part that govt was or is a profit making enterprise.....it is supposed to be non-profit.

I had thought that the government we are creating here is one that essentially is trying to reduce the risk of loss. We have govt to limit our collective exposure to invasion via military and police, we organize to keep water and sanitation safe, we have laws to protect our wealth from criminal acts. We organized our banks to try to quell the massive flows of currency so that our economic system does not become unbalanced. You might agree with some or all of what is said, depending on how conservative you are. You might stop me at the beginning or further down the line. Now, a lot people believe that govt can also serve the purpose of buffering severe economic conditions, that when demand has dropped, it can effect change to moderate the conditions.

There are some people who view themselves as predators, who feel it is the natural order of things for other people to lose and for themselves to gain from this loss. The degree to which one is against the above paragraph is I think directly correlated to the amount one views oneself as a predator.
 

LOL !!

Ok now youv'e gone from criticizing the Republicans for not implementing it to criticizing the bill ?

Because I " reminded " you WHY HR1461 never got a vote.

It's a interesting case study in psychology, you Libs that is. Does the word " humility" mean anything to you ?

I mean because of-course the ALTERNATIVE to HR1461 was MUCH MUCH better.

The washing out of 16 to 18 TRILLION dollars in wealth.

Tens of thosuands of people losing their homes, millions losing their jobs, lively hood

THATS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR as they sat in front of Committees and lied about the true health of the GSEs.

And I thought you people were " compasionate".

And you peoples response after the collapse of the Democrat Mandated Sub-Prime Bubble was.....(drum roll) ...elect a Jr Senator with radical ties and a radical ideology with ZERO experience and ZERO qualifications to run our Country.

Lol...it's just so unbelievable, it's so surreal.

Liberalism can not be tamed or corrected. It has to be CRUSHED, STAMPED out like a disease carrying cockroach.
 
Why has the majority of your thread contribution been aimed at discrediting the current administration? Nowhere in the OP or the source it is in reference to do we see any mention of Obama.

And yet you have what, at least 50 Obama/Democrat/liberals dedicated posts?

We also know why; every time good economic news is released, you and your ilk continue to downplay it as though it is meaningless.

Why? Because with leadership comes responsibility and accountability. There is no good economic news regardless of what your textbook tells you. I suggest start thinking with the brain instead of your heart but more importantly do some research for a change. Obama is an economic disaster as evidenced by the actual results not the reported results. You need to stop looking at people as numbers and realize how badly they are being hurt by this economy. The only ones benefiting are those evil rich people that liberals love to hate yet ignore what Obama is promoting.

We are four years after the end of a recession and the economic numbers are barely what they were when he inherited the recession so what do we have to show for four plus years of Obamanomics?
 
There is no good economic news regardless of what your textbook tells you.

Why do you persistently attempt to straw-man every individual who has a different point of view? My take on political economy has absolutely nothing to do with this phantom textbook you reference.

We are four years after the end of a recession and the economic numbers are barely what they were when he inherited the recession so what do we have to show for four plus years of Obamanomics?

That is what happens when the U.S. experiences the worst economic crisis since the 1930's.
 
LOL !!

Yea because thats all you need, a reminder that suites your corrupted world view.

Even if its out of context.

HR1461 was a bill created by Republicans, that made it through a Republican chaired Comittee that the Democrats threatened to Fillibuster as they ran out the clock on the Senates session.

With only a 55 vote majority, the Republicans needed 5 DEMOCRATS to step up and make it Fillibuster proof.

Not ONE useless Democrat politician stepped up.

Hey here's another reminder.

That bill was re-introduced in 2007 to a DEMOCRAT chaired Commitee.

What happened in that Committee ? What happened to the 2007 Bill ?

Cmon Libs, keep talking about the Sub-Prime Collapse, the Democrat mandated Bubble so I can thoroughly slap down your nonsense.

"The Administration has long called for legislation to create a stronger, more effective regulatory regime to improve oversight of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banks ("housing government-sponsored enterprises" or "housing GSEs") and appreciates the considerable efforts of Chairman Oxley and Chairman Baker in crafting H.R. 1461. However,

H.R. 1461 fails to include key elements that are essential to protect the safety and soundness of the housing finance system and the broader financial system at large. As a result, the Administration opposes the bill."
 
Why do you persistently attempt to straw-man every individual who has a different point of view? My take on political economy has absolutely nothing to do with this phantom textbook you reference.



That is what happens when the U.S. experiences the worst economic crisis since the 1930's.

Because people are affected by the Obama economic results, millions of them and he promised he had the solutions to the problems. He failed and yet gets a pass. You call this the worst economic crisis since the 30's because that is what your textbook tells you. Reality tells me that the 81-82 recession affected more Americans negatively because it affected everyone's pocketbook due to the high inflation at the time. We didn't have high inflation this time, millions of Americans lost book value this time but millions more that didn't have investments or own a home didn't lose a thing because of low interest rates and low inflation.

People continue to be hurt today because of lack of positive leadership and the blame game that many blame continue to blame on the past. It does appear that your textbook doesn't tell you how the private sector works. The govt. bailout rewarded bad behavior which continues today with more people dependent on the govt. than ever before. That seems to be the Obama dream because he sure doesn't know how to stimulate the private sector.

You lack the very basic understanding of leadership. I am sure you can find a definition in your textbook that will help you
 
Why? Because with leadership comes responsibility and accountability. There is no good economic news regardless of what your textbook tells you. I suggest start thinking with the brain instead of your heart but more importantly do some research for a change. Obama is an economic disaster as evidenced by the actual results not the reported results. You need to stop looking at people as numbers and realize how badly they are being hurt by this economy.

The actual results....not he reported results.

Hmm.....so where is this "actual" data?
 
Because people are affected by the Obama economic results, millions of them and he promised he had the solutions to the problems. He failed and yet gets a pass. You call this the worst economic crisis since the 30's because that is what your textbook tells you. Reality tells me that the 81-82 recession affected more Americans negatively because it affected everyone's pocketbook due to the high inflation at the time. We didn't have high inflation this time, millions of Americans lost book value this time but millions more that didn't have investments or own a home didn't lose a thing because of low interest rates and low inflation.

People continue to be hurt today because of lack of positive leadership and the blame game that many blame continue to blame on the past. It does appear that your textbook doesn't tell you how the private sector works. The govt. bailout rewarded bad behavior which continues today with more people dependent on the govt. than ever before. That seems to be the Obama dream because he sure doesn't know how to stimulate the private sector.

You lack the very basic understanding of leadership. I am sure you can find a definition in your textbook that will help you
So lets see, did people lose asset value in 81? No, home prices did not lose value, interest rates were high both on loans AND on returns.
Did the job losses go on for a long time in 81? No, it was a fairly quick turnaround since it was an inflation shock recession.

Did people lose asset values in 2008? Oh yes, home values declined massively, and since this was the primary asset for the majority of people, the losses were great and widespread.

Did the job losses extend out for a long period? Yes, since demand was/is depressed, due to asset devaluation and income declines, a feedback loop caused further declines in demand, with more cutbacks by govt and business.


You just refuse to accept how this was different from 1981.
 
None of that matters that much. I don't say they don't discuss it, but they would plow through all of it if there was demand. You could cut taxes altogether, eliminate all regulations(and I wouldn't advise that), and they would still be sitting on their money. They need demand. Without it, you can't coax them enough. With it, you can't stop them. Everything else is a push.

Thats why they can't show with objective statistics that either has any significant effect on the whole. Either way, Bob might have issues, but Tom has new opportunities. Everything functions on demand and it's relationship to supply. You have fewer doctors, for example, to influence supply, thus raising prices. This is done not by the government, but by the AMA. This highlights one reason for healthcare reform.

ask yourself this, how would business respond if they didn't have to worry about healthcare any more? With UHC, you remove it from the connection with employment. This would do more than taxes would. Remember overseas, they can pay low wages, not worry about healthcare, or regulations. Sure, more people die from unsafe conditions, pollution in some places much worse, but they have none of it. Do you really think taxes are truly the big issue? And voters are programmed to respond that way. Just say tax cut, and you're more than half way home.

On he regulation issue, point me to one thread on a specific regulation? Instead there is just a mantra that there are too many. There may be, but which ones serve no purpose? This is the important question.

As for rational discussion, I appreciate it as well. It's always good when it can happen.

I can tell you from my own personal experience that what you suggest about demand is not alltogether true. Demand can be created, and is created all the time.

I've cited examples of products that were not in demand, manufactured by companies that barely existed, where supply generated demand. This is well known, and, for example, forms the basis for funding Research and Development. Obviously, a final decision is based on whether the market could support the product. No reason to open a Rolls Royce dealership in downtown Detroit, for example, or build a skateboard park in a retirement village.

As to the Obamacare example, I think you may not have thought that through. Obamacare has exacerbated the doctor shortage, no alleviated it. With dramatic restrictions on Doctor compensation, and still questionable provisions required such things as "the doctor fix" just to fill in holes, Doctors are going to be far shorter supply than ever. Obamacare is a perfect example of the unintended consequences of goverment intervention and regulation.
 
Hint: When starting a conversation with someone you never met before, it is generally a bad idea to begin with an insult. You get off on the wrong foot.
Strike one.

"Here are the keys to the house you won, sorry about the fire".


Well, if you had been reading through the thread, you would have caught on to the fact that it was pretty small in all sorts of measures, but most importantly, it was small in relation to the size of the collapse.

Ah, you are confusing a set of actions designed to counteract an economic collapse...with policy for "normal" (not collapsing) conditions. There was never an assumption on my part that govt was or is a profit making enterprise.....it is supposed to be non-profit.

I had thought that the government we are creating here is one that essentially is trying to reduce the risk of loss. We have govt to limit our collective exposure to invasion via military and police, we organize to keep water and sanitation safe, we have laws to protect our wealth from criminal acts. We organized our banks to try to quell the massive flows of currency so that our economic system does not become unbalanced. You might agree with some or all of what is said, depending on how conservative you are. You might stop me at the beginning or further down the line. Now, a lot people believe that govt can also serve the purpose of buffering severe economic conditions, that when demand has dropped, it can effect change to moderate the conditions.

There are some people who view themselves as predators, who feel it is the natural order of things for other people to lose and for themselves to gain from this loss. The degree to which one is against the above paragraph is I think directly correlated to the amount one views oneself as a predator.

Well, if we were playing baseball you struck out using an article claiming food stamps are stimulus that was rated as only half true. Maybe you thought people wouldn't read the entire article or maybe you didn't. Beats me. But as I wrote earlier, either way makes no difference to me, it's all nonsense. Taking a dollar from someone only to give that dollar to someone else doesn't stimulate anything except the greed of the person getting the dollar for doing nothing.
 
Well, if we were playing baseball you struck out using an article claiming food stamps are stimulus that was rated as only half true. Maybe you thought people wouldn't read the entire article or maybe you didn't. Beats me.
Um, the polifact article was determining if the statement "stimulus is more effective than tax cuts" was true, not whether "food stamp are stimulus".

But as I wrote earlier, either way makes no difference to me, it's all nonsense. Taking a dollar from someone only to give that dollar to someone else doesn't stimulate anything except the greed of the person getting the dollar for doing nothing.
I understand that macro concepts like multipliers are tough...and Randian objection to altruism is held by a lot of people these days, predatory feelings come to the surface in times of stress....in some people.
 
"The Administration has long called
for legislation to create a stronger, more effective regulatory regime to improve oversight of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banks ("housing government-sponsored enterprises" or "housing GSEs") and appreciates the considerable efforts of Chairman Oxley and Chairman Baker in crafting H.R. 1461. However,

H.R. 1461 fails to include key elements that are essential to protect the safety and soundness of the housing finance system and the broader financial system at large. As a result, the Administration opposes the bill."


Ok, I made a mistake.

It was S.190 and I was refering to the bill not getting a vote in the Senate, plus it was a Senate Comittee.

HR1461 was watered down for the House Comittee's Democrats and actually added in up to 700,000 dollar jumbo loans AND it created a Slush fund AND it put off the transition for a new regulatory controller to take the reins away from HUD for a year.

Good reason for it being voted down.

Never the less S.190 was not allowed a vote because of Democrats threats of Fillibuster.
 
So lets see, did people lose asset value in 81? No, home prices did not lose value, interest rates were high both on loans AND on returns.
Did the job losses go on for a long time in 81? No, it was a fairly quick turnaround since it was an inflation shock recession.

Did people lose asset values in 2008? Oh yes, home values declined massively, and since this was the primary asset for the majority of people, the losses were great and widespread.

Did the job losses extend out for a long period? Yes, since demand was/is depressed, due to asset devaluation and income declines, a feedback loop caused further declines in demand, with more cutbacks by govt and business.


You just refuse to accept how this was different from 1981.

And you continue to lack a basic understanding of leadership apparently believing that the 81-82 recession ended on its own without leadership. I can see why you are self employed with no employees. If you ever grow big enough to actually employ someone you might understand the term incentive and the costs associated with hiring and firing employees.

Good leadership skill isn't something Obama or his supporters understand at all but he does have a great following. some confuse following with good leadership skills. You live in that little textbook liberal world where people are nothing more than numbers and businesses are here for your own use and entertainment.

People don't change and behavior is part of the individual. 81-82 was different as I have pointed out, high inflation, high unemployment(oh wait, we have that now), low morale(oh, wait, we have that now), poor economic growth(oh, wait, we have that now) so I guess the only thing different today is the inflation quotient?

According to you job losses that don't go on for long correct themselves when a Republican showing leadership is in the WH, but job losses that continue with a Democrat in the WH need a lot more time to correct themselves.

Demand of course is never created by offering incentive, look at your own life where you buy things regardless of cost or money in the bank. People with more spendable income obviously are more miserable and never spend that money, never save it, never pay off bills, never invest it which of course none of these benefit the economy.

People lose asset values all the time and it affects their pocketbook if they sell during poor economic times. Wonder how that affects the 50% or so of the public that doesn't own any assets thus have nothing to sell?

Homeownership in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting how that number is almost equal to the percentage of working families that are paying all the Federal Income taxes in this country.

You see, you continue to have a very distorted view of leadership and doubt you got anything out of the textbooks about leadership for if you looked up leadership in the textbook you wouldn't find anything that relates to Obama and if you lived during the Reagan years you would have seen classic leadership on display.
 
Um, the polifact article was determining if the statement "stimulus is more effective than tax cuts" was true, not whether "food stamp are stimulus".

I understand that macro concepts like multipliers are tough...and Randian objection to altruism is held by a lot of people these days, predatory feelings come to the surface in times of stress....in some people.

Once again, maybe you think people won't read what you post. This comes from the article:
"A temporary increase in food stamps has the biggest stimulative effect"

And you also wrote out that SNAP was stimulus. So I don't understand the backtracking at this point. But it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me my countries economic health. We had two years worth of complete loony tune leadership that set the stage for a bigger disaster than the great depression. At least the major bleeding was stopped after that.

Have you considered sending the stress blurb to the White House?
 
I can tell you from my own personal experience that what you suggest about demand is not alltogether true. Demand can be created, and is created all the time.

I've cited examples of products that were not in demand, manufactured by companies that barely existed, where supply generated demand. This is well known, and, for example, forms the basis for funding Research and Development. Obviously, a final decision is based on whether the market could support the product. No reason to open a Rolls Royce dealership in downtown Detroit, for example, or build a skateboard park in a retirement village.

As to the Obamacare example, I think you may not have thought that through. Obamacare has exacerbated the doctor shortage, no alleviated it. With dramatic restrictions on Doctor compensation, and still questionable provisions required such things as "the doctor fix" just to fill in holes, Doctors are going to be far shorter supply than ever. Obamacare is a perfect example of the unintended consequences of goverment intervention and regulation.

Excellent post! I especially enjoyed the analogies you used! :thumbs:

IMO, the doctor shortage is going to be a real problem very soon, considering the fact that baby boomers are retiring at a rate of 10,000 a day, straining an already fragile system! :eek:
 
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