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U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

winston53660 said:
During Reagan's term is when the US went from a creditor nation to a debtor nation and the debt tripled.
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Yet we had a doubling of GDP, more personal spendable income, 60% increase in tax revenue to the govt. How did your claim hurt the average American during that period of time and in particular the 17 million new hires that Reagan economic created. Think Obama policies are geared to increase economic growth and job creation?
 
Conservative said:
Is that why Obama has added 6.2 trillion to the debt vs Reagan's 1.7 trillion? How many jobs has Obama created, 17 million like Reagan? You have a very poor memory of what happened during the Reagan term because you probably weren't old enough to know what happened. I was there during both and old enough during both. Let me know when Bush had a 3.5-3.6-3.7 trillion dollar budget? Any idea what the Reagan budgets were?
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You continue to confuse debt with spending, you confuse total with % of GDP.

The fact remains that Reagan tripled the debt and spent massively on military systems, those were stimulus to private corps, he was picking winners and losers, you remember only what you want.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You continue to confuse debt with spending, you confuse total with % of GDP.

The fact remains that Reagan tripled the debt and spent massively on military systems, those were stimulus to private corps, he was picking winners and losers, you remember only what you want.
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LOL, yep, I always confuse where our tax dollars go which in the case of the current spending levels the debt service. Spending causes debt and always will. Don't spend and you won't have any debt. Reagan's spending was paid for by the revenue increases generated by 17 million new taxpayers. When will we see Reagan style economic growth under Obama?
 
Mithros said:
Well I wouldn't really call that my opinion, it's more of an empirically derived statement that's backed up by the evidence.

The Gini Index is reasonable approximation of wages / productivity. It's pretty clear that unemployment rises when productivity outpaces wages.

View attachment 67150065
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And the effect of an aging population on the Gini Coefficient?

Regardless, there are many variables that an analysis of inequality of values can fail to account for.

Our gulf remains vast...
 
Boo Radley said:
You couldn't prove that by anyone listening to you. understand, anyone's
experience may be too narrow in focus, often not seeing the forest for the trees so to speak. You show repeatedly that you don't even know what the numbers you keep quoting mean.

The fact remains, presidents do not control the economy.
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What a ridiculously ignorant statement.

They do when they sign job killing bills like ObamaCare and Frank Dodd.

They do when they mandate new regulations via FIAT that put bullseyes on American industries under the pretense of environmental catastrophe.

They do when their FED appointee pumps TRILLIONS into the financial markets and loads up the Central bank books with toxic debt.

They most certainly DO control economies.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Still waiting for your finding me saying this

No, personal attacks and false premise is not rational debate.



I have offered plenty in this thread, you ignore it while you continue on with false premises.

We already went over this, and doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome.... is not rational.....just the opposite.

Again with the false premise.
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I note your desire to avoid the exchange of ideas, and remain with your obsession to accuse. I think it best to allow you to continue to demonstrate as much.
 
Conservative said:
Spending causes debt and always will.
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This is the block you have always had, you always will. Debt has more than one variable, they are not directly related, you continue to divert away from the topic with this canard.

Reagan DID NOT cover his spending, at all, he tripled it.
 
Conservative said:
Then we agree that the bills passed by the House should be put on the floor for debate as well? How can the House be called do nothing when there are actual bills passed sitting in Reid's desk? Seems to me that many have the Houses of Congress confused
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Sure, sets put everything, including the 37 times the loons tried to repeal BOcare up for a vote.Lets scope everything and let the light shine on congress.:2wave:
 
ocean515 said:
And the effect of an aging population on the Gini Coefficient?

Regardless, there are many variables that an analysis of inequality of values can fail to account for.

Our gulf remains vast...
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Absolutely. But feel free to submit any data to back up your claim, and it will undoubtedly shrink.

This is one of those issues where there may be no single right answer, but there are pretty easy ways to evaluate how right an answer is.

There's a substantial correlation between the Gini Coefficient (ie wages not keeping up with productivity) and unemployment. You disagree, though I'm not at all sure why yet.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
This is the block you have always had, you always will. Debt has more than one variable, they are not directly related, you continue to divert away from the topic with this canard.

Reagan DID NOT cover his spending, at all, he tripled it.
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Better tell that to the BEA because the chart I posted, you know, the one you ignored, doesn't show that. You seem to have a real problem I believing your opinion is actual fact and actual facts are someone else's opinion. I feel bad for you.

Nothing is going to change your mind as you are always going to ignore massive debt created by Obama, stagnant economic growth, poor job creation while demonizing Reagan's job creation, economic growth, and increases in govt. revenue through tax cuts.

No fact is ever going to get in the way of your personal opinions and lack of understanding of economic data
 
Conservative said:
LOL, yep, I always confuse where our tax dollars go which in the case of the current spending levels the debt service. Spending causes debt and always will. Don't spend and you won't have any debt. Reagan's spending was paid for by the revenue increases generated by 17 million new taxpayers. When will we see Reagan style economic growth under Obama?
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Perhaps if Obama were to balloon government spending and the public sector job market in the same way Reagan did, instead of us constantly shedding government employment, we might see job growth of that particular caliber. Such an action would return us to expanding deficits which is a giant no-no these days, but there's give-and-take with this sort of thing. For now though, we'll continue to rely on only the private sector for work and continue to fight this employment issue with one hand tied thanks to the persistent reductions in the public job sector.
 
ocean515 said:
I note your desire to avoid the exchange of ideas, and remain with your obsession to accuse. I think it best to allow you to continue to demonstrate as much.
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I'm not going to spend my time correcting your false premises that avoid my original point while yo go off on ad hominems. If you want debate, then engage in it honestly. I have my hands full with enough liars as it is.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I have my hands full with enough liars as it is.
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It really is quite annoying, isn't it? I truly wonder why people feel the need to do it, why they are so desperate to be right then debate dishonestly. It's one thing to disagree, people disagree with me all the time and I have no problem with it. But when they are dishonest about it...it really just annoys me.
 
Donc said:
Sure, sets put everything, including the 37 times the loons tried to repeal BOcare up for a vote.Lets scope everything and let the light shine on congress.:2wave:
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Republicans seem to understand that you don't increase hiring by putting increased costs on the books of small business. When will liberals understand that private businesses cannot print cash to pay for increased costs caused by higher taxes, more regulations, and Obamacare?
 
Conservative said:
You don't put roadblocks in the way and then blame the slow recovery on a "balanced sheet" recession
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It is a balance sheet recession. In real terms, people are more poor than they were prior to 2008. This is simply a matter of fact.
 
Conservative said:
Republicans seem to understand that you don't increase hiring by putting increased costs on the books of small business.
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Something Reagan did when he doubled payroll taxes on the self employed.
 
Mithros said:
Absolutely. But feel free to submit any data to back up your claim, and it will undoubtedly shrink.

This is one of those issues where there may be no single right answer, but there are pretty easy ways to evaluate how right an answer is.

There's a substantial correlation between the Gini Coefficient (ie wages not keeping up with productivity) and unemployment. You disagree, though I'm not at all sure why yet.
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I think you are correct that there may not be a single right answer.

For example, where does the effect of imported goods come into play, as it relates to increases in productivity, without an increase in wages?

For example, to combat decreasing market share, and therefore decreasing revenues, the automobile industry fought with the UAW to increase productivity in order to lower fixed and variable labor costs attached to each car manufactured. With high wages, and lower productivity, US auto makers found it increasingly difficult to compete, and still have enough revenue to support R&D.

Raw numbers would not account for this shift, but would reflect the increased gap, which could be misinterpreted.
 
Conservative said:
Republicans seem to understand that you don't increase hiring by putting increased costs on the books of small business. When will liberals understand that private businesses cannot print cash to pay for increased costs caused by higher taxes, more regulations, and Obamacare?
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Um, the ACA has not been in effect over the last 4 years, taxes had been reduced.

You have nothing.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
The chart did not show the accumulation of debt, if you believe Reagan accumulated something other than a tripled debt, show it.
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No, the chart showed expenses and revenue growth by year but if you want to talk debt would be happy to, 1.7 trillion added in 8years vs. 6.2 trillion in 4 plus years. Doubt seriously that anyone who supports Obama should be talking about the Reagan debt that increased employment by over 17million whereas Obama still has 2 million fewer employed than when the recession began. This really bodes the question what is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty?
 
Conservative said:
Republicans seem to understand that you don't increase hiring by putting increased costs on the books of small business. When will liberals understand that private businesses cannot print cash to pay for increased costs caused by higher taxes, more regulations, and Obamacare?
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Whats this post
"increased costs on the books of small business"
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have to do with the post that you quoted? and this outta left field post?
"When will liberals understand that private businesses cannot print cash "
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bizarre post even for you.:roll:
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, the ACA has not been in effect over the last 4 years, taxes had been reduced.

You have nothing.
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Taxes have been reduced? how much have your personal income taxes been reduced? I certainly understand why someone who doesn't employ anyone doesn't understand a financial statement of businesses that do
 
winston53660 said:
Something Reagan did when he doubled payroll taxes on the self employed.
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And he raised the gas tax, and business taxes...

You know, maybe Obama shouldn't try to follow in the footsteps of Reagan. :p
 
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