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University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

disneydude said:
Dude...if you can't follow along and understand context what are you doing here? I shouldn't have to lay it out for you.
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It's an easy question disney...Why you gettin' all frustrated? Just answer the question.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't. And have no reason to accept it.
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Ok, so you don't believe his eye witness testimony...So what, who are you? Why should your belief in what someone says they witnessed, or not matter?
 
CalGun said:
That is the kind of liberal I like. One that can recognize the extremism of their own and call it out. Congrats.
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Good Lord your patronizing condescension is eye-rolling and vomit inducing. :roll:
No matter the lean, anyone with more than one functioning brain cell can easily decipher--that if the OP story is correct--then indeed Mr. Jarvis went way too far.
 
Middleground said:
Good Lord your patronizing condescension is eye-rolling and vomit inducing. :roll:
No matter the lean, anyone with more than one functioning brain cell can easily decipher--that if the OP story is correct--then indeed Mr. Jarvis went way too far.
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If everyone can agree that Mr. Jarvis went way too far as you say, what sanction will he receive? Any?
 
Middleground said:
Crucifixion? :2razz:
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Funny, but no, I mean really now....Everyone says how wrong they believe he is for this kind of rule, yet, when pressed on whom it was, and what would happen the response seems to be "who cares?".... This guy receives no sanctions for his bone headed move in creating such a rule, it just leaves it open to more....I mean, if there is no negative outcome, then why not do these things as long as you can get away with them, then move on to the next authoritarian bull move?
 
j-mac said:
Funny, but no, I mean really now....Everyone says how wrong they believe he is for this kind of rule, yet, when pressed on whom it was, and what would happen the response seems to be "who cares?".... This guy receives no sanctions for his bone headed move in creating such a rule, it just leaves it open to more....I mean, if there is no negative outcome, then why not do these things as long as you can get away with them, then move on to the next authoritarian bull move?
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Did he not apologize and see the error of his way? Do you really need a pound of flesh? I dunno, but asking a student to remove a cross is not on the same scale as...hmmmmm... i dunno, committing murder. Or removing their clothes.
 
Middleground said:
Did he not apologize...
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Did he? Or did he just give the usual condescending non apology when addressing his crap rule?

...and see the error of his way?
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Well, we really don't know do we? Only time would tell that, but my guess is no.

Do you really need a pound of flesh?
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"Pound of flesh"? No...Accountability? Yes, I think his position, and power of that position warrants it.

I dunno, but asking a student to remove a cross is not on the same scale as...hmmmmm... i dunno, committing murder.
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Can't you make this point without creating a strawman argument?
 
j-mac said:
Did he? Or did he just give the usual condescending non apology when addressing his crap rule?



Well, we really don't know do we? Only time would tell that, but my guess is no.



"Pound of flesh"? No...Accountability? Yes, I think his position, and power of that position warrants it.



Can't you make this point without creating a strawman argument?
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My mistake, there is no quote from the orientation supervisor. However, reps from the university have stated:

University spokeswoman, Susan Kashack, stated,

“It was absolutely an inappropriate action for him to make that request of her.”

“It’s possible that political correctness got out of hand.” added SSU President Ruben Arminana.
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Tell me, what would make you happy? will a direct apology be enough or do you want this person to lose their job over this mistake?
 
Middleground said:
My mistake, there is no quote from the orientation supervisor. However, reps from the university have stated:



Tell me, what would make you happy? will a direct apology be enough or do you want this person to lose their job over this mistake?
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I would like to see some honesty out of the man that actually made the stupid rule. I'd like to see him step forward himself, and not hide behind spokespeople, and come out and say that he made a mistake with that rule, and in the future he would take greater care to think of the ramifications of the rules he puts into place. I certainly don't think that a mediocre response from a spokes person, and a lessor administrator take the fall for this guy's stupidity.

As for losing his job? Not at present, but if these kinds of things continue to show a religious bias pattern toward those that don't think as he does, and a lack of objectivity in the respect of others free speech rights, then yes, I would at that time call for his resignation.
 
j-mac said:
I would like to see some honesty out of the man that actually made the stupid rule. I'd like to see him step forward himself, and not hide behind spokespeople, and come out and say that he made a mistake with that rule, and in the future he would take greater care to think of the ramifications of the rules he puts into place. I certainly don't think that a mediocre response from a spokes person, and a lessor administrator take the fall for this guy's stupidity.

As for losing his job? Not at present, but if these kinds of things continue to show a religious bias pattern toward those that don't think as he does, and a lack of objectivity in the respect of others free speech rights, then yes, I would at that time call for his resignation.
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Perfectly reasonable, IMO.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, so you don't believe his eye witness testimony...So what, who are you? Why should your belief in what someone says they witnessed, or not matter?
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Merely some with experience that doesn't believe him. Nothing more nor less.
 
j-mac said:
What are you trying to say here?
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Not complicated. I merely have experience as well, and don't believe him. Nothing more; nothing less.
 
Somerville said:
How is a 2011 article about a Muslim mother of elementary-age children relevant to a story about a university in 2013?
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Because one is welcomed wearing religious symbols and the other wearing a religious symbol, much smaller though, is banned? That shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.
 
Middleground said:
Did he not apologize and see the error of his way?
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Of course the bigger questions is how he came to expect that he could tell any woman to do remove a Christian symbol worn like a necklace. Did he just suddenly decide this was an offensive enough gesture that it had to be stopped immediately?

This really doesn't sound like a place of higher learning. All those sensitivity training courses seem to be having the opposite effect.
 
Grant said:
Because one is welcomed wearing religious symbols and the other wearing a religious symbol, much smaller though, is banned? That shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.
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Obviously difficult for you to understand the differences between the two individuals.

The Muslim mother is part of a group that goes into schools and explains Islam to kids who have heard nothing but bad words about the faith.

The student was part of a group that was supposed to welcome new and potential students to Sonoma State. She was not supposed to represent any religion as part of that task.

Again I have to ask: Why was it so important to her that she ran out of the room when asked to cover up her crucifix before meeting new students but when a glamour shot is taken of her - no crucifix.

The whole thing sounds like a pre-planned event
 
Boo Radley said:
Not complicated. I merely have experience as well, and don't believe him. Nothing more; nothing less.
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Oh, ok....It was just a little disjointed. Anyway, then, back to my original question, Who cares? Do you think that your particular experiences are relevant in anyway concerning this case at Sonoma State?
 
Somerville said:
Obviously difficult for you to understand the differences between the two individuals.

The Muslim mother is part of a group that goes into schools and explains Islam to kids who have heard nothing but bad words about the faith.

The student was part of a group that was supposed to welcome new and potential students to Sonoma State. She was not supposed to represent any religion as part of that task.

Again I have to ask: Why was it so important to her that she ran out of the room when asked to cover up her crucifix before meeting new students but when a glamour shot is taken of her - no crucifix.

The whole thing sounds like a pre-planned event
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To the last point, it could have been a subtle and ironic gesture of protest against the school.

Anyway, freedom of speech and all that. If I want to wear a shirt with a big-ass cross on the front and Bible scripture on the back, then so what? If I want to wear a shirt covered with praises to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so what? If I want to wear a shirt deriding the American government as terrorists, praising their every decision, claiming that everyone in the world is a baked potato, or just about anything else short of directly threatening anyone or anything, then why would it be a problem? Some people are far too easily offended by any and all religious or political statements whatsoever and they are free to do so. However, they cross the line when they force their beliefs and hurt feelings onto others.
 
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j-mac said:
Oh, ok....It was just a little disjointed. Anyway, then, back to my original question, Who cares? Do you think that your particular experiences are relevant in anyway concerning this case at Sonoma State?
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1) I didn't say anyone cares. 2) I was addressing his comment. 3) he made a claim he refused to support (odd you don't call him on that).

As for Sonoma state, she'll win and they will lose if they contest her. What they asked her can't be enforced.
 
Grant said:
Of course the bigger questions is how he came to expect that he could tell any woman to do remove a Christian symbol worn like a necklace. Did he just suddenly decide this was an offensive enough gesture that it had to be stopped immediately?

This really doesn't sound like a place of higher learning. All those sensitivity training courses seem to be having the opposite effect.
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The person acted like a jerk. It's not the first time a person at a job screwed up, and it won't be the last. But whatever you do, please don't pretend 'poor Christians' are being singled out by the evil lefties because it's absolutely not the case here.
 
ChezC3 said:
You don't have to.

anecdotal evidence is just that.

Believe or don't believe, I do not care.
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And thats the strength of your argument right there in the toilet.
 
Boo Radley said:
1) I didn't say anyone cares. 2) I was addressing his comment. 3) he made a claim he refused to support (odd you don't call him on that).

As for Sonoma state, she'll win and they will lose if they contest her. What they asked her can't be enforced.
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Ok then, we agree....Man that small point was hard to get out of you...ah well....:coffeepap:
 
poweRob said:
And thats the strength of your argument right there in the toilet.
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No, what you're asking is for me to divulge personal information to back up an anecdote, I'm not going to do that. So, I tell you to take it as it is, if you don't hey, great, if you do, hey, great, I don't care...

I know it to be true, that's about all that can be said on the subject.
 
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