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After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

Aderleth said:
How so?
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Same questions, same answers over and over again. Are you under the impression his answer will change from the last 100 times that question has been asked and answered? It's simple, some folks believe that allowing homosexuals to marry each other harms society going forward. You believe that's not the case.
 
clownboy said:
Same questions, same answers over and over again. Are you under the impression his answer will change from the last 100 times that question has been asked and answered? It's simple, some folks believe that allowing homosexuals to marry each other harms society going forward. You believe that's not the case.
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Harms society how, exactly? I've just read through this entire thread. There is no answer to that question in the thread. If you're asserting the existence of a harm - especially in a debate about legal policy - you damn well better be able to articulate some specific thing, not just some vague nebulous assertion. I don't think either he or you can do that.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
I just don't see how homosexuality is an God-given right.
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Good for you. Your religious beliefs have ****all to do with legal policy in the US. You're free to believe as you will, just stop pretending that's anything remotely close to a valid reason to institute government based discrimination.
 
clownboy said:
For such a very small percentage you'd think media and advertising could go a day without shoving the behavior in our faces. It's gotten so that a person can't go to the mall or watch TV without getting a frequent sexual education.
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It just goes to prove that tabloidism is alive and well.

I was listening to BBC interview with a Russian politician. He talk about the how their politicians used issues such as homosexuality, abortion, etc to divert the citizens attention by emotionally charging them with issues that really had no real impact on them. He said it was the main strategy for politicians to avoid responsibility and accountability for way more serious social issues.

Suddenly I thought, "Hey, that's how our politicians do business!"
 
Aderleth said:
Good for you. Your religious beliefs have ****all to do with legal policy in the US. You're free to believe as you will, just stop pretending that's anything remotely close to a valid reason to institute government based discrimination.
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You do realize we were founded on Christian principles right? The founding fathers wanted a Christian nation, you do realize that right?
 
Aderleth said:
Harms society how, exactly? I've just read through this entire thread. There is no answer to that question in the thread. If you're asserting the existence of a harm - especially in a debate about legal policy - you damn well better be able to articulate some specific thing, not just some vague nebulous assertion. I don't think either he or you can do that.
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It's been thoroughly discussed in other threads on the topic (a multitude of them). You've been around here for long enough to know that's true. Now, you may not agree, in fact you've made it crystal clear you don't, but to keep asking the same question expecting a different answer - well, you know that definition. :mrgreen:
 
davidtaylorjr said:
You do realize we were founded on Christian principles right? The founding fathers wanted a Christian nation, you do realize that right?
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I realize that people like you have convinced yourself of that particular fallacy, yes.
 
clownboy said:
It's been thoroughly discussed in other threads on the topic (a multitude of them).
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Show me somewhere, anywhere, in any thread on DP in which someone has articulated some specific reason why or how gay marriage harms the country. Not nebulous claims about moral degradation or the fall of society, but some specific actual practical harm. I've never seen any such thing, but go ahead, prove me wrong.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
You do realize we were founded on Christian principles right? The founding fathers wanted a Christian nation, you do realize that right?
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Though a few were on and off deists none that I'm aware of wanted a theocracy. In fact they rather abhorred the notion of a state religion.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
You do realize we were founded on Christian principles right? The founding fathers wanted a Christian nation, you do realize that right?
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LOL....the Founding Fathers were not the radical right-wing Christian crusaders that you guys always pretend them to be:

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors. - Thomas Jefferson
 
clownboy said:
Not quite sure how you can make that call from Europe and not being DT himself. Are you signalling that you want others to tell you what's important to you and what affects you now?
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I don't need or want anyone, including you, to try to tell me anything.

I don't pay much attention to others rabbit-ass ideas.
 
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Aderleth said:
Show me somewhere, anywhere, in any thread on DP in which someone has articulated some specific reason why or how gay marriage harms the country. Not nebulous claims about moral degradation or the fall of society, but some specific actual practical harm. I've never seen any such thing, but go ahead, prove me wrong.
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No thanks it's a fool's errand. You don't believe any harm is possible so every argument made claiming harm you dismiss as "nebulous claims about moral degradation" or whatever.

Look, we get it, you don't believe any harm will come of it, can't imagine any harm will come of it, by golly there's no way in hell any harm will come of it. That's just fine. However, your opinion isn't a widespread as you like to tell yourself.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
You do realize we were founded on Christian principles right? The founding fathers wanted a Christian nation, you do realize that right?
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Actually that's not true...as stated in the Treaties with Tripole. In fact, John Adams reiterated that point..."this nation is NOT founded on Christianity!".

You are incorrect in that statement. Would you like to provide some evidence to your claim?
 
Removable Mind said:
Actually that's not true...as stated in the Treaties with Tripole. In fact, John Adams reiterated that point..."this nation is NOT founded on Christianity!".

You are incorrect in that statement. Would you like to provide some evidence to your claim?
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Christian Principles, that you cannot argue with.
 
clownboy said:
No thanks it's a fool's errand. You don't believe any harm is possible so every argument made claiming harm you dismiss as "nebulous claims about moral degradation" or whatever.

Look, we get it, you don't believe any harm will come of it, can't imagine any harm will come of it, by golly there's no way in hell any harm will come of it. That's just fine. However, your opinion isn't a widespread as you like to tell yourself.
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You just claimed that this has been discussed over and over again. Now you can't be bothered to find one single example? I'm not even challenging you to find a valid harm (which I know is impossible), just someone asserting a specific harm.

Sadly, I'm well aware that my opinion isn't nearly widespread enough. Nevertheless, it's not really an opinion that there aren't any actual harms that stem from gay marriage, it's a fact. Your unwillingness to even attempt to assert one demonstrates that on some level you already get that.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Christian Principles, that you cannot argue with.
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Funny thing.....those who scream the loudest to proclain their "Christianity" to the world are always those who are the first to pervert the actually teachings of Jesus Christ.
 
clownboy said:
Though a few were on and off deists none that I'm aware of wanted a theocracy. In fact they rather abhorred the notion of a state religion.
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"The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." ~ John Adams, 2nd President of the United States.




Man has created God in his own image:intolerant, sexist, homophobic , and violent." ~ Marie
 
Aderleth said:
You just claimed that this has been discussed over and over again. Now you can't be bothered to find one single example? I'm not even challenging you to find a valid harm (which I know is impossible), just someone asserting a specific harm.

Sadly, I'm well aware that my opinion isn't nearly widespread enough. Nevertheless, it's not really an opinion that there aren't any actual harms that stem from gay marriage, it's a fact. Your unwillingness to even attempt to assert one demonstrates that on some level you already get that.
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No, just tired of the horse beating, could just be my mood today, usually I'll beat the dead horse until it's mush. If you're sincere (which I doubt) about wanting examples of posts claiming arguments for harm caused, or will be caused, search through Ontologuy's posts. Should be easy to see. But you know this and there is nothing factual about your opinion. You have no superior claim to crystal ball gazing.
 
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davidtaylorjr said:
Christian Principles, that you cannot argue with.
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You know David...I'm sure that is a comforting thought to you. But when you examine the structure of our social legal system, which came from the same folks you claim created this nation from Christian principles... you have to remember that laws are indeed moral principles, which are designed to NOT be biased toward all of those who such laws apply.

Many Christian principles are indeed biased against many populations...if not in rote, but also in practice.

In the end...homosexuals have zero impact on your life personally...or your neighbors...or their friends or families.
 
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