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After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

digsbe said:
Seriously, SSM is not the same as Jim Crow and Brown vs Board. It's an illogical comparison similar to those who are anti-SSM bringing up polygamy, bestiality, incest, and any other sexual issue that is not similar to SSM.

Freedom is allowing people to vote and have their beliefs heard. As of now state SSM bans are constitutional, people have that freedom. What is not freedom is to violate the voting rights of others, force them to go against their beliefs and impose morality upon societies that have decided that same sex unions are not within the definition of marriage. Freedom is not having those who loose in a democratic battle screaming and crying about feeling discriminated (when it isn't illegal) and then forcing their beliefs into law upon the majority. That is tyranny. Forcing states that have banned SSM to accept it is tyranny. It violates the principals of the people in that state and imposes a moral code upon people that have rejected such. In an identical way it would also be tyrannical to do so to a state that has approved of SSM but forcing them to go against that.
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Freedom is sooooo much more than allowing people to vote and have their beliefs heard. In fact...the foundation of freedom protects fundamental rights and freedoms from ever being PUT to a popular vote.

Lets take a look at what your just wrote through a similar lens: "What freedom not freedom is to violate the voting rights of others, force them to go against their beliefs and impose morality upon societies that have decided that inter-racial unions are not within the definition of marriage. Freedom is not having those who lose in a democratic battle screaming and crying about feeling discriminated (when it isn't illegal) and then forcing their beliefs into law upon the majority. That is tyranny. Forcing states that have banned inter-racial marriage to accept it is tyranny. It violates the principals of the people in that state and imposes a moral code upon people that have rejected such. In an identical way it would also be tyrannical to do so to a state that has approved of inter-racial marriage but forcing them to go against that"

Digs...the SAME EXACT argument that you are making was raised by the bigots who fought against inter-racial marriage. There is no difference whatsoever.
 
roguenuke said:
According to what you just posted, then overturning interracial marriage bans was tyranny digsbe. The Loving decision was, according to this argument, a violation of freedom. Because interracial marriage bans were put into place for many of the same reasons that same sex marriage bans were put into place, imposition of a moral code. Those that opposed interracial marriage by far felt that it was morally objectionable to be in an interracial relationship. Even many blacks felt those bans belonged in place or at least opposed such relationships.
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Exactly! The bigots who fought against inter-racial marriage felt just as "morally justified" as those who fight against marriage equality today. The both attempted to proclaim moral superiority where is doesn't exist.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Morals are relative. You don't seem to know that, so I thought I'd tell you.
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I imagine you don't have a clue about morals or God. I don't really expect much from someone who claims that is is proven that homosexuality is proven to be normal. Rationalization of sin does not change the fact that everyone will give account to the Lord Jesus Christ of things done in this life.
 
Texmex said:
I imagine you don't have a clue about morals or God. I don't really expect much from someone who claims that is is proven that homosexuality is proven to be normal. Rationalization of sin does not change the fact that everyone will give account to the Lord Jesus Christ of things done in this life.
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Krishna's ain't.
 
digsbe said:
1.)Seriously, SSM is not the same as Jim Crow and Brown vs Board. It's an illogical comparison similar to those who are anti-SSM bringing up polygamy, bestiality, incest, and any other sexual issue that is not similar to SSM.

2.) Freedom is allowing people to vote and have their beliefs heard.
3.) As of now state SSM bans are constitutional, people have that freedom.
4.) What is not freedom is to violate the voting rights of others, force them to go against their beliefs and impose morality upon societies that have decided that same sex unions are not within the definition of marriage. Freedom is not having those who loose in a democratic battle screaming and crying about feeling discriminated (when it isn't illegal) and then forcing their beliefs into law upon the majority. That is tyranny. Forcing states that have banned SSM to accept it is tyranny. It violates the principals of the people in that state and imposes a moral code upon people that have rejected such. In an identical way it would also be tyrannical to do so to a state that has approved of SSM but forcing them to go against that.
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1.) this is one of the most ignorant statements i have ever read from you digs(thats because you typically never make them) and i wonder how many people you offened saying that them wanting equal rights and fighting for civil rights is like bestiality

2.) factually wrong if that vote infringes on rights
3.) as of now they arent either because they that argument hasnt been heard and in the few cases they were heard at the state level they were deemed unconstitutional.
4.) good thing this wouldnt be happening, didnt happen when those bans were overturned and wont happen in the future when they are.

ALso the statement "forcing/impose morality" is totally intellectual dishonest and shows your biased. No morality will be imposed by granting equality. That statement is 100% false and empty hyperbole.

There is factually no tyranny present.
 
Texmex said:
I imagine you don't have a clue about morals or God.
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I happen to be one of the most religious people here. I'm certain I understand God far better than you.

I don't really expect much from someone who claims that is is proven that homosexuality is proven to be normal.
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It has been. I don't expect much someone who chooses to be ignorant of these facts. You have chosen to bury your head in the sand. That's fine... but each and every time you demonstrate how little you understand about this issue, I'll be there to point out how wrong you are. You won't get it, but others will.

Rationalization of sin does not change the fact that everyone will give account to the Lord Jesus Christ of things done in this life.
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I'm Jewish. Jesus was nothing more than a prophet to me. And your belief in what Jesus represents to YOU is meaningless.
 
Lakryte said:
So if sodomy is the problem, do you favor prohibiting heterosexual sodomy?
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Studies show that there is a lot more heterosexual sodomy going on than homosexual sodomy.

So those who are opposed to sodomy might need to focus a little better
 
AGENT J said:
im guessing since the comparison is logical and similar it will never end untill equality is achieved.
Of course it bothers those that are against equality because it destroys just about any opposition and shinse a light on how silly arguing against it is and how wrong it is. Its good, very good.
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Those who are opposed to equal rights for all in the USA will end up disappointed because most Americans support equal rights now and that sentiment will be stronger in the future.

The haters lost in the past, they are losing now, and they will always lose.

Because there is more love than hate in this world.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that." ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I'm Jewish. Jesus was nothing more than a prophet to me. And your belief in what Jesus represents to YOU is meaningless.
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So you claim to be a Christian who rejects Jesus Christ as anything more than a Jewish prophet.

:lamo :lamo :lamo
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I happen to be one of the most religious people here. I'm certain I understand God far better than you.
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I never cease to be amazed at how many people make statements like that. It seems one of the defining characteristics of those that are psychotic is that they all think they understand God far better than others. It's probably because of all the voices in their head. ;)
 
shrubnose said:
Studies show that there is a lot more heterosexual sodomy going on than homosexual sodomy.
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good god, where do you go to find studies like that?! and how do they even.....never mind? delete post
 
Texmex said:
So you claim to be a Christian who rejects Jesus Christ as anything more than a Jewish prophet.

:lamo :lamo :lamo
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CaptainCourtesy said:
I'm Jewish. Jesus was nothing more than a prophet to me. And your belief in what Jesus represents to YOU is meaningless.
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Proving that you don't know what you are talking about is SO easy.
 
Papa bull said:
I never cease to be amazed at how many people make statements like that. It seems one of the defining characteristics of those that are psychotic is that they all think they understand God far better than others. It's probably because of all the voices in their head. ;)
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Actually, all it requires is study and research... rather than just spewing doctrine without understanding where it comes from and what it means.
 
Papa bull said:
I never cease to be amazed at how many people make statements like that. It seems one of the defining characteristics of those that are psychotic is that they all think they understand God far better than others. It's probably because of all the voices in their head. ;)
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Sorry you got all bent out of shape over this, Captain. I only meant to say that it's something people should think about before claiming God-knowledge superiority because it's something damned near all psychotics do.... talk to God. Not saying your psychotic. Just saying it's a really strange thing to hear people saying given that if they're truly sane they should know 2 things. 1), they don't really know God all that well. 2), they don't know how much anyone else knows about God, either.

But take it for what it's worth. Claims to know God more than other people are strange. People who aren't pscyhotic can certainly say things like that. But people who are psychotic, do, too. Just sayin'.
 
Papa bull said:
Sorry you got all bent out of shape over this, Captain. I only meant to say that it's something people should think about before claiming God-knowledge superiority because it's something damned near all psychotics do.... talk to God. Not saying your psychotic. Just saying it's a really strange thing to hear people saying given that if they're truly sane they should know 2 things. 1), they don't really know God all that well. 2), they don't know how much anyone else knows about God, either.

But take it for what it's worth. Claims to know God more than other people are strange. People who aren't pscyhotic can certainly say things like that. But people who are psychotic, do, too. Just sayin'.
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Here's the thing, though. Knowledge and understanding of God's words are not just about attending religious services and following doctrine. I often see a lot of that with people here... and people "out there". As with most things, critical examination of various sources and understanding how things were developed and interpreted and WHY things were interpreted the way they were/are often helps with understanding. Religion and faith is so subjective and many of the documents describing doctrine are so old and shrouded in mystery that understanding them can be a real challenge. My point is that regurgitating scripture without understanding the context, history, and interpretation doesn't mean one understands God's words. To me, that's how Tex presents.

Psychotics present a little differently than what I just described.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Here's the thing, though. Knowledge and understanding of God's words are not just about attending religious services and following doctrine. I often see a lot of that with people here... and people "out there". As with most things, critical examination of various sources and understanding how things were developed and interpreted and WHY things were interpreted the way they were/are often helps with understanding. Religion and faith is so subjective and many of the documents describing doctrine are so old and shrouded in mystery that understanding them can be a real challenge. My point is that regurgitating scripture without understanding the context, history, and interpretation doesn't mean one understands God's words. To me, that's how Tex presents.

Psychotics present a little differently than what I just described.
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You're talking about understanding of religion here, but you were talking about knowing all about GOD. I'm pretty well versed on religion, too. But there's not one thing I can tell you I know for sure about God. And I'm sure what makes anyone else think they would know more. It's odd stuff. I get it with psychotics. They have voices in their heads, but what about people who are almost certainly somewhat sane like you or me.... what would give us the notion that we had some inside track on knowing all about God?
 
Papa bull said:
You're talking about understanding of religion here, but you were talking about knowing all about GOD. I'm pretty well versed on religion, too. But there's not one thing I can tell you I know for sure about God. And I'm sure what makes anyone else think they would know more. It's odd stuff. I get it with psychotics. They have voices in their heads, but what about people who are almost certainly somewhat sane like you or me.... what would give us the notion that we had some inside track on knowing all about God?
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Let me clarify. Understanding God's words is more of what I meant. Understanding God Himself, at least to me, is a very personal thing.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Let me clarify. Understanding God's words is more of what I meant. Understanding God Himself, at least to me, is a very personal thing.
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Seems I'm not the only one that needs to be more clear in what they're posting in order to make sure people don't get the wrong impression, then.
 
Papa bull said:
Seems I'm not the only one that needs to be more clear in what they're posting in order to make sure people don't get the wrong impression, then.
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Which is why it is always good to ask if something seems to be "off".
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Which is why it is always good to ask if something seems to be "off".
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Just because what you said wasn't what you meant doesn't mean I should have known that... "Well, gee, you should have asked instead of assuming what I said was what I meant since what I said wasn't really what I meant." OKeedokee. :) But I get it.... It's my fault for accepting what you said at face value; not your fault for saying something that sounded so queer. I used to think you were a centrist, but that sort of thing tells me you're really a lefty.
 
Papa bull said:
Just because what you said wasn't what you meant doesn't mean I should have known that... "Well, gee, you should have asked instead of assuming what I said was what I meant since what I said wasn't really what I meant." OKeedokee. :) But I get it.... It's my fault for accepting what you said at face value; not your fault for saying something that sounded so queer. I used to think you were a centrist, but that sort of thing tells me you're really a lefty.
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You have many different ways to respond to things like you saw. You made a choice. That IS your responsibility.

Now, this kind of derailing is not appropriate, so I am stepping back from it.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You have many different ways to respond to things like you saw. You made a choice. That IS your responsibility.

Now, this kind of derailing is not appropriate, so I am stepping back from it.
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Well, you did make an issue out of it. But I think stepping back is probably a smart choice for you. Cheers.
 
Papa bull said:
Sorry you got all bent out of shape over this, Captain. I only meant to say that it's something people should think about before claiming God-knowledge superiority because it's something damned near all psychotics do.... talk to God. Not saying your psychotic. Just saying it's a really strange thing to hear people saying given that if they're truly sane they should know 2 things. 1), they don't really know God all that well. 2), they don't know how much anyone else knows about God, either.

But take it for what it's worth. Claims to know God more than other people are strange. People who aren't pscyhotic can certainly say things like that. But people who are psychotic, do, too. Just sayin'.
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Members of the KKK say things about homosexuals that are the same things that you say about homosexuals. It's just strange that you use the same arguments. Just sayin.
 
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