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Ecuador's president to U.S.: Don't threaten us on Snowden case

Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

Of course not. Unlike some on here, however, I take no pleasure in U.S. 'defeats' or in the notion that people are visiting Russia and disclosing secret information.
 
Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

Henry David said:
If you really consider what Snowden did to be a crime, that suggests that you do not know the difference between right and wrong.

The question becomes, how is it a crime, how is it wrong, to expose the crimes of government?
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I believe that what he has done is against the law, but to your point there are several related considerations...

  1. Is the law correct? Constitutionally correct, I mean.
  2. If the law is not correct, then don't people have an obligation to challenge it?
  3. If they have an obligation to challenge it, what form should the challenge take? Given the government's desire to have absolute control in matters like this, it's not unreasonable to expect that one would be essentially squashed to such a degree that their protest would never see the light of day, and hence be brushed under the rug. As such, it's not unreasonable to seek out alternative methods.
  4. In short, I'm sorry, but sometimes one has to do what one has to do.
 
Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

radcen said:
In short, I'm sorry, but sometimes one has to do what one has to do.
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Sure, as long as one understands the risks involved. Snowden is young and naive. He was probably surprised when he discovered corruption in government. With a few more years under his belt he would have understood that corruption is everywhere and not given it a second thought. That's the way government expects it to be. Now they have to deal with a renegade and they will do so.
 
Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

fmw said:
I didn't say it was right or wrong. I said it was a crime. It was illegal. People who get security clearances sign a contract not to reveal the classified information. The law specifies punishment for those who do. Very straightforward. Not a question of right and wrong. A matter of law.
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Call me a romantic idealist, but I would like to think that our laws criminalize actions that are wrong. Which is to say that our laws do NOT criminalize actions that are right and moral.

I find it wrong that the government, with the assistance of Booz Allen, violates the Fourth Amendment as a regular and widespread practice. I think the Fourth should be respected, along with the rest of the USC.

So while it is true that Snowden has broken some petty law, by defending the larger principle of constitutional governance, his transgression is easily forgiven.
 
Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

radcen said:
I believe that what he has done is against the law, but to your point there are several related considerations...

  1. Is the law correct? Constitutionally correct, I mean.
  2. If the law is not correct, then don't people have an obligation to challenge it?
  3. If they have an obligation to challenge it, what form should the challenge take? Given the government's desire to have absolute control in matters like this, it's not unreasonable to expect that one would be essentially squashed to such a degree that their protest would never see the light of day, and hence be brushed under the rug. As such, it's not unreasonable to seek out alternative methods.
  4. In short, I'm sorry, but sometimes one has to do what one has to do.
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You are quite right. Your post reminds me of my namesake HD Thoreau's point that we all have an obligation to Civil Disobedience when the law is illegitimate or poor. Our civic duty demands that we nullify through the jury process or disobey through disobedience those lousy laws that government insists on passing.
 
Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

Henry David said:
Call me a romantic idealist, but I would like to think that our laws criminalize actions that are wrong. Which is to say that our laws do NOT criminalize actions that are right and moral.

I find it wrong that the government, with the assistance of Booz Allen, violates the Fourth Amendment as a regular and widespread practice. I think the Fourth should be respected, along with the rest of the USC.

So while it is true that Snowden has broken some petty law, by defending the larger principle of constitutional governance, his transgression is easily forgiven.
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I'm not arguing that. But understand that it isn't some petty law. Some want to try him for treason for which the punishment is death. This isn't about right or wrong as I said. it is about power and control as is everything the federal government does. I view Snowden as somewhat of a hero but one that is in deep doo doo with the government.
 
Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

fmw said:
I'm not arguing that. But understand that it isn't some petty law. Some want to try him for treason for which the punishment is death. This isn't about right or wrong as I said. it is about power and control as is everything the federal government does. I view Snowden as somewhat of a hero but one that is in deep doo doo with the government.
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No doubt about it--he's in deep doo doo, and he knew that would be the outcome before he took the overt act. So did Ellsberg and so did Manning and many other less famous ones.

It is never wrong to expose government crimes, and it is always right to expose government crimes. That is the duty of journalism really, always has been. But today's media is wholly owned, the presstitutes.

So he is way braver than either you or I. :peace
 
Re: Ecuador Stands Up To US

Geoist said:
No sovereign nation should be threatened by another for considering asylum for someone who has not directly hurt anybody (and has awakened this nation to injustices).
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Successive governments have ignored or manipulated the Constitution, have failed to protect the borders, have divided Americans into Races which they can control through welfare and food stamps, have started wars without much thought given to outcomes, and have drawn lines in the sand which have had as much significance as cancelling Easter Egg hunts.

Meanwhile they have a sycophant media who advance their careers with access to the White House, and 'reliable sources', by not being critical of the Administration.

It was Matt Drudge, condemned by all the MSM as being an amateur hack, who broke the story on Clinton and his lies, and who has since encouraged many others to report more responsibly in reporting what actually goes on among the very powerful people who run the country.

Some time ago good Americans everywhere would have condemned these actions but since the government has been treating their own people as suspicious criminals then its about time the people began to turn this game around.

I'll reserve judgement on this guy until the smoke clears, but its clear already that Obama's 'lines in the sand' are not a threat to anyone anymore, no matter how weak they are among the international communities.
 
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