• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Texas carries out its 500th execution since 1982

It certainly deters the recipient of the injection!

If it detered him, he wouldn't be there, would he.
Don't make me get statistical
 
I am no fan of Big Jim -- I think he helped ruin the state -- but whether he is literally a criminal I don't know.
He had 14 years urder is open and shutto do that? How long has Perry been governor? Do Texans support him overall and the death penalty in particular. If the murder is open and shut, I believe in the China method. If the murders are not open and shut cases, as it looks like A. Hernandez, O.J. Simpson, and G. Zimmerman are not, then what?
 
He had 14 years urder is open and shutto do that? How long has Perry been governor? Do Texans support him overall and the death penalty in particular. If the murder is open and shut, I believe in the China method. If the murders are not open and shut cases, as it looks like A. Hernandez, O.J. Simpson, and G. Zimmerman are not, then what?

I do believe the death penalty is grossly overused, certainly in Texas. Capital crimes ought to be really special, and the cases should be open-and-shut.
 
It deters recidivism, right?

Well, I don't want to quibble over semantics, but it prevents recidivism, that's for sure.
Listen. I'm against the death penalty but not for humanitarian reasons. I just have such a deep mistrust of government and politicians that I can't approve of giving them power to execute citizens. It's not just murderers that face the death penalty.
 
Well, I don't want to quibble over semantics, but it prevents recidivism, that's for sure.
Listen. I'm against the death penalty but not for humanitarian reasons. I just have such a deep mistrust of government and politicians that I can't approve of giving them power to execute citizens. It's not just murderers that face the death penalty.

It IS only murderers in the U.S. but, not to quibble, I completely respect your position.
 
It IS only murderers in the U.S. but, not to quibble, I completely respect your position.

US Federal capital crimes other than murder...

Espionage
Treason
Trafficking in large quantities of drugs
Attempting, authorizing or advising the killing of any officer, juror,or witness in cases involving a Continuing Criminal Enterprise, regardless of whether such killing actually occurs

States that allow capital punishment for crimes other than murder...

Treason (Arkansas, Calif., Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Washington)
Aggravated kidnapping (Co., Idaho, Il., Missouri, Mont.)
Drug trafficking (Fl., Missouri)
Aircraft hijacking (Ga., Mo.)
Placing a bomb near a bus terminal (Mo.)
Espionage (New Mexico)
Aggravated assault by incarcerated, persistent felons, or murderers (Mont.)

The State allows capital punishment for crimes against itself, where no-one is injured (treason, espionage). You give those bastards that kind of power and they'll abuse it.
 
US Federal capital crimes other than murder...

Espionage
Treason
Trafficking in large quantities of drugs
Attempting, authorizing or advising the killing of any officer, juror,or witness in cases involving a Continuing Criminal Enterprise, regardless of whether such killing actually occurs

States that allow capital punishment for crimes other than murder...

Treason (Arkansas, Calif., Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Washington)
Aggravated kidnapping (Co., Idaho, Il., Missouri, Mont.)
Drug trafficking (Fl., Missouri)
Aircraft hijacking (Ga., Mo.)
Placing a bomb near a bus terminal (Mo.)
Espionage (New Mexico)
Aggravated assault by incarcerated, persistent felons, or murderers (Mont.)

The State allows capital punishment for crimes against itself, where no-one is injured (treason, espionage). You give those bastards that kind of power and they'll abuse it.

These statutes may be on the books but the U.S. Supreme Court, in Kennedy v Louisiana 554 U.S. 407 (2008) restricted the imposition of capital punishment to crimes in which the victims' lives were taken. True, the opinion did "not address, for example, crimes defining and punishing treason, espionage, terrorism, and drug kingpin activity, which are offenses against the State," but no such cases have arisen in many decades and one can be sure that if one does arise, it will go to SCOTUS. I wouldn't bet my life on an execution being upheld in such a case.
 
These statutes may be on the books but the U.S. Supreme Court, in Kennedy v Louisiana 554 U.S. 407 (2008) restricted the imposition of capital punishment to crimes in which the victims' lives were taken. True, the opinion did "not address, for example, crimes defining and punishing treason, espionage, terrorism, and drug kingpin activity, which are offenses against the State," but no such cases have arisen in many decades and one can be sure that if one does arise, it will go to SCOTUS. I wouldn't bet my life on an execution being upheld in such a case.

Nor would you bet your life against it.
If you give the State the power of life and death you're gonna regret it sooner or later. Seriously, once they have that power in hand it's up to them how they use it. That list I cited can be expanded by legislation, by the jokers and yahoos sitting in government seats and empty Supreme Court seats are filled by the party in power. The only safe policy, in this context, is to not allow the government to execute citizens. Find another route.
 
It's a punishment first and a deterent second.

It's a punishment first and second. If it was a deterrent Texas would have a low murder rate, wouldn't it?
 
It's a punishment first and second. If it was a deterrent Texas would have a low murder rate, wouldn't it?

That's irrelevant and it's a poor excuse for ending Capital punishment.

Look up " Kenneth Allen McDuff " and perhaps you'll understand why I don't trust the prison or penal system to keep dangerous criminals off our streets.
 
Not outside of immediate self defense or defense of others, no.



Fixed for accuracy. Unless you're ignoring the actual evidence and arguing that the death penalty is a deterrent, how is an executed prisoner safer than an incarcerated one?



Mostly it's that there is no such next life. But if you've read anything that I post on this issue, you would know that that is not at all how I argue for treating prisoners. I'm a very staunch advocate for restorative justice. See also my reply to Vance for additional details.



If it's more of a deterrent not to be killed, why kill? Deterring crime is actually a good thing. Also, I'm pretty sure that no one actually feels that way when facing death. A desire to accelerate slow and painful deaths notwithstanding, of course.



So, keep them cordoned off. Or even better yet, rather than simply keeping prisoners locked away, try to reform them. Restorative justice works. A lot of those death row inmates were in jail before they killed someone. If they had been properly educated and treated (as many have psychological disorders, were victims of abuse, or have mental disabilities) they could have become productive members of society rather than murderers. But you're right that more dangerous prisoners should not be mixed in with those that are not, for the safety of all.
There is nothing about the reform system of prison that works...nothing we have seen and certainly not involving rapists and murderers with life sentences. Been behind the walls? Worked with them? I have. Those that reform essentially reform themselves because the experience was so miserable they dont want to ever come back. Their time inside is spent surviving. The simple fact is that the vast majority that are in those prisons are right where they belong.

Ive long believed there should be extraordianry prison reform, but I doubt it would ever pass. Since there is no appetite for real reform, you are left dealing with reality. Even with those that rail on against capital punishment...if you are honest do you really believe people care more about the individuals or the 'cause'?
 
That's irrelevant and it's a poor excuse for ending Capital punishment.

It's not irrelevant and it's not presented as a reason to end capital punishment. There's reasons for capital punishment but deterrence isn't one of them. Might as well be honest about things if we're gonna have a discussion.

Look up " Kenneth Allen McDuff " and perhaps you'll understand why I don't trust the prison or penal system to keep dangerous criminals off our streets.

I don't need to look it up because I already don't trust the penal system to keep criminals off the street. But I also don't trust the government to not abuse the power of life and death. If those self-serving bastards have the power to execute citizens, you know they'll abuse it, sooner if not later.
 
What would you regard as an appropriate punishment for the old boy?

Life in prison.

It is not up to the state, IMO, to punish people.

It should only be up to the state to protect people.

People should be incarcerated not as punishment, but as protection to the public.

The state has proven time and time again that they are not qualified (and indeed, no one is, IMO) to deem what punishment fits a particular crime.
 
Capital punishment might be defensible but not as a deterrent. It's revenge, and revenge has value (I suppose) but I hate, I mean really hate the idea of government having the power to execute citizens. And don't tell me about separations of power- the court is an extension of the State.
I say, be honest about it and build a stage in the centre of town. Have the condemned's head pushed down on the block and ensure everyone is present to watch the axe fall. All this mollycoddling about gas chambers, electric chairs, lethal injections, whatever, that's all just to let Ma and Pa reconcile their Christianity with their desire for revenge.


Capital punishment is a 100% effective deterrent to the murderer every hurting anyone again.

What I don't agree with is people having to work just to pay to reward a killer with lifetime free housing, food, medical care and all other expenses.
 
And I refuse to allow a government to kill when I have the power to stop it. I don't approve of killing people at all, but killing innocent people is completely unacceptable. If there is any chance, I will not allow it.



It makes it much much easier. Callousness and indifference to the problems of others is pretty incompatible with socialist ideals. Egalitarianism does not allow for harming others to benefit oneself.

So you would be completely against abortion?
 
If the death penalty stopped crime then we'd be crimeless. The reality is that it doesn't deter anyone...


I could turn that around by saying, "evil people aren't concerned that their evil deeds will result in any sort of punishment"
 
What a milestone. I wonder if they had a cake. Or gave the lucky inmate a festive hat.

I don't know about if they had a party, but I was overjoyed. The new day is even brighter knowing this scum didn't get to see it!
 
The death plenty should not be a punishment as the taking of someone else life i wrong full stop. What is funny is the amount of people corrupt cooperation have killed and do there leaders get killed E.g. cocal in LEDCS the government's wars ect there are better ways of punishing people than killing them
 
Back
Top Bottom