• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

roguenuke said:
It has been proven that marriage/married people benefit society.
Click to expand...

A man and woman who stay together to raise their children is a benefit to society and there is no doubt about that. However this law does not say that men and women cannot continue as has been customary and follow the traditional path. It only allows Gays to marry. That's it.

I doubt men and women will stop getting married, having children, raising them to be good citizens, and doing all the things necessary to keep society moving along. This is just a side show and will soon go unnoticed. The big deal is the debt, and the corruption and intrusion of the government into a formerly free society. That will kill traditional marriage and the country far more thoroughly and quickly than Gays marrying will.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
In what way? I will agree that families can be a benefit, but marriage is not necessary for that as a couple can live together without the recognition of marriage by a state entity...
Click to expand...

In order for him to get TriCare or a dependent ID, we had to be married. Plus, my BAH went up when we got married (although it was only a little).
 
Some ways that marriage benefits society.

Jim David: Sorry, NOM, But Same-Sex Marriage Has Actual Benefits

Why Marriage Is Good For You by Maggie Gallagher, City Journal Autumn 2000

The Economic Benefits of Gay Marriage | PBS NewsHour

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=29&ved=0CJkBEBYwCDgU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fftp.rta.nato.int%2Fpublic%2FPubFullText%2FRTO%2FMP%2FRTO-MP-HFM-205%2FMP-HFM-205-28.doc&ei=tOXMUYySHemSiAKwi4GIAQ&usg=AFQjCNHrVkTffTbhmjXC94rEjRdPnsFkeA&sig2=fMPZOhtNo7yf6NnyKeVRaA

There is no reason to believe that these same benefits would not be seen in same sex couples, at least to some degree. And, the economy benefit cannot be ignored. Even beyond taxes, being married means families are less likely to be on welfare or need longterm assistance. There are going to be either of two adults that can provide health insurance for the family, which is important if one of them doesn't have a job.

I'll even use a source that is pretty right wing/conservative to show the benefits of marriage because there is no logical reason why these benefits, at the very least most of them if not all, would not be seen in same sex couples as well.

Marriage and Welfare Reform: The Overwhelming Evidence that Marriage Education Works
 
yobarnacle said:
I remember in the 60s, homosexuals wanted to be left alone, they weren't hurting anybody.

Now, they don't want to be left alone. They want EVERYBODY they can get on their side!

they are NOT content to live quietly, but want to remake society to suit themselves.

They ARE a danger to traditional American society and values, and subverting our youth.

deny these statements if you can!
Click to expand...

I am glad that they are part of replacing traditional America with something a bit less close-minded, bigoted, rigid, and backwards than what we have had.

Deny these statements if you can.
 
mac said:
Yeah, no-one changes their views as they age...
Click to expand...

Never said that doesn't happen. However, if we look at social attitudes towards race for example, the attitudes of the younger generation of the 60's still prevails in those folks who are probably in their 50's or 60's now.
 
mac said:
I've come to realize that people's understanding of history is generally fairly superficial.
Click to expand...

What I find is that most people ignore context when discussing history.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I am glad that they are part of replacing traditional America with something a bit less close-minded, bigoted, rigid, and backwards than what we have had.

Deny these statements if you can.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't deny YOU feel that way. I'll take your word for it.

AND, you and those like you will reap the whirlwind.
but you'll probably blame it on anthropogenic climate change! :)
 
mac said:
Yes, they do. Look at abortion. Views shift.
Click to expand...

Abortion is a different issue that is often not affected by aging, but affected by procreating or the desire to procreate. False equivalency.
 
yobarnacle said:
A bad time is coming.
a government powerful enough to give you the things you want, is powerful enough to take the things it wants.

ya'll are digging your graves and eventually will lament it.
Click to expand...

OMG... stop crying already. DOMA is gone. Your marriage hasn't changed. Chicken Little is wrong.
 
yobarnacle said:
Just as Joe McCarthy warned in the 50s, the socialists have taken over the education and media.

No wonder so many folks took their kids out of public schools.

In addition, the estimated homeschooling rate?the percentage of the school-age population that was being homeschooled?increased from 1.7 percent in 1999 to 2.2 percent in 2003 (not shown in tables or figures).

Still looking for CURRENT rates.

these are kids you DIDN"T get to brainwash.

And there are millions more in fundamentalist church affiliated schools, (not parochial) who ALSO avoided liberal/socialist brainwashing.

Most of these children are being taught self reliance and respect for traditional values.

The right is NOT a dying breed.

The left is self destructive. They create non-sustainable government.

So which cities are going to be without electricity, when Obama shuts down the coal fired power plants?
Click to expand...

Actually, it is the kids in the fundamentalist schools that get brainwashed. The get taught inaccurate information, and sometimes taught to hate those different from themselves. Sending a kid to one of those schools is nearly akin to child abuse.
 
yobarnacle said:
No. They teach the principles the childs parents WANT taught, or the parents remove them from the school. the parents pay EXTRA for such private education. they also pay though realestate taxes for public education, whether it's of value or not.

chafes my butt to pay for liberal teachers to preach their nonsense.
That's ONE of the things we need to change before it's too late.
Click to expand...

The fundamentalist schools certainly brainwash the kids. The turn them into automatons who reject scientific fact, and dismiss those who are unlike them. Parents who send them there create clones, not individuals.
 
yobarnacle said:
Oh, I don't deny YOU feel that way. I'll take your word for it.

AND, you and those like you will reap the whirlwind.
but you'll probably blame it on anthropogenic climate change! :)
Click to expand...

I don't deny that YOU feel this way.

And you and others like you will continue to sing the blues even when things continue to get better and better for everyone.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
OMG... stop crying already. DOMA is gone. Your marriage hasn't changed. Chicken Little is wrong.
Click to expand...

Crying?

I'm grumbling! My marriage is fine. It's the country I'm worried about.

The fed will spend itself to death.

Then I'll live in a saner country called Florida.

I'll miss the good ole USA though!

Visitors to Florida will only get 90 day visas, then have to leave, will be MY recommendation.

We have hunting season, and tourist season.

How come we can't shoot tourists?

The way it currently works, we just skin em alive! Dollarwise.
 
Last edited:
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, it is the kids in the fundamentalist schools that get brainwashed. The get taught inaccurate information, and sometimes taught to hate those different from themselves. Sending a kid to one of those schools is nearly akin to child abuse.
Click to expand...

You educate YOUR kids (if you can have any), and I already educated mine, all college graduates, no student loans. 5 kids.

Now I got 8 grandkids to watch over, though the responsibility and authority is their parents.

Still, I can help where my help is welcomed.

But YOU have no say in their education, thank God!
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The fundamentalist schools certainly brainwash the kids. The turn them into automatons who reject scientific fact, and dismiss those who are unlike them. Parents who send them there create clones, not individuals.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the THEORY of evolution, as scientific FACT?

Or the hypothesis of anthropogenic global warming as scientific FACT!

What FACTS do you think we reject? hmmmm?
 
yobarnacle said:
You educate YOUR kids (if you can have any), and I already educated mine, all college graduates, no student loans. 5 kids.
Click to expand...

Good for you.

Now I got 8 grandkids to watch over, though the responsibility and authority is their parents.
Click to expand...

Also good for you.

Still, I can help where my help is welcomed.

But YOU have no say in their education, thank God!
Click to expand...

And you have no say in the education of my or anyone ELSE'S kids, thank God.
 
yobarnacle said:
Are you referring to the THEORY of evolution, as scientific FACT?

Or the hypothesis of anthropogenic global warming as scientific FACT!

What FACTS do you think we reject? hmmmm?
Click to expand...

Things like evolution, scientific fact of the normalcy of homosexuality, formation of the universe, rejection of birth control, things like that. I don't care one iota about global warming.
 
yobarnacle said:
Are you referring to the THEORY of evolution, as scientific FACT?

Or the hypothesis of anthropogenic global warming as scientific FACT!

What FACTS do you think we reject? hmmmm?
Click to expand...

yes the theory of evolution, just like the theory of gravity... that some people can't understand how science uses terms makes for ignorant statements.

Scientific fact dates dna discoveries, the fossil record, earth strata shows millions of years of evolutionary progress....

I can understand how some fear change, lament the loss of the so-called good ol' days but in truth they were good for a rather limited segment of society. I am good with them grumbling and carrying on, it makes it easy to tell who they are.

FYI I was a grunt back in the day, soldiers obey lawful orders, not just officers. Sometimes they obey unlawful orders like My Lai, but the track record is pretty good on lawful. Given how many gays serve in the Military and many soldiers are at least gay tolerant I don't see a large segment of the guys who break things and kill people as their military job description 'crossing the picket line' for a few angry old dudes who create mayhem. A few tried that in 1861....how did that go?
 
notquiteright said:
yes the theory of evolution, just like the theory of gravity... that some people can't understand how science uses terms makes for ignorant statements.

Scientific fact dates dna discoveries, the fossil record, earth strata shows millions of years of evolutionary progress....

I can understand how some fear change, lament the loss of the so-called good ol' days but in truth they were good for a rather limited segment of society. I am good with them grumbling and carrying on, it makes it easy to tell who they are.

FYI I was a grunt back in the day, soldiers obey lawful orders, not just officers. Sometimes they obey unlawful orders like My Lai, but the track record is pretty good on lawful. Given how many gays serve in the Military and many soldiers are at least gay tolerant I don't see a large segment of the guys who break things and kill people as their military job description 'crossing the picket line' for a few angry old dudes who create mayhem. A few tried that in 1861....how did that go?
Click to expand...


Oh, and mayhem is a specific crime.

It's deliberately mutilating or maiming someone. FYI. :)
Congratulations and thanks for serving. So did I. If there were gays in service in MY day, they kept it hid. A BCD awaited any discovered.

As to 1861, the union wanted Robert E Lee to command union forces. He declined, and commanded Army of Virginia instead.

Sort of a major..uh...general crossing the line.

But I digress.

do you know what punishment the union inflicted on Gen Lee after the war?


Okay, I'll give you a hint.


They took away his plantation and made it a graveyard for soldiers.

So...what is the name of lee's plantation?

Come on Americana students! :)
 
Last edited:
yobarnacle said:
Oh, and mayhem is a specific crime. It's deliberately mutilating or maiming someone. FYI. Congratulations and thanks for serving. So did I. If there were gays in service in MY day, they kept it hid. A BCD awaited any discovered. As to 1861, the union wanted Robert E Lee to command union forces. He declined, and commanded Army of Virginia instead. Sort of a major..uh...general crossing the line. But I digress. do you know what punishment the union inflicted on Gen Lee after the war?
Click to expand...

Nice to see you skipped the scientific fact part... ;)

Well I didn't want to call what a few angry old guys threaten- to be revolution. And if you don't think 'revolution' is gonna mutilate or maim folks you have never been close to combat. It is a maiming and mutilating process. :roll:

I saw where you said you served but last time we spoke you said it was a a deck jockey? Is that naval for grunt? my point is it takes more than a VFW cap to be combat effective.

This isn't 1861 which would have been the high water mark for any 'revolutionaries' to break away or seize the government- how did that go? Not well if the Commanding General of the Southern Forces in Virginia lost his plantation to become the sacred burial ground for our war dead. (considering he could have been hung as a traitor I think General Lee and Southern President Davis, for that matter, got off lucky.)

Now back in 1861 we tended to think of ourselves by state first, nation second, AFTER the Union crushed the South we thought of ourselves as a nation first, state second.

Today I doubt many will cross the picket line as there is no strong state right issue here. if interracial marriage didn't spark this revolution in the 60's then SSM isn't gonna do it now...

I predict no revolution, no rioting in the streets by whoever you think will do so...

More like angry old guys frothing at meetings before going back to their hover rounds and oxygen tanks...
 
notquiteright said:
Now back in 1861 we tended to think of ourselves by state first, nation second, AFTER the Union crushed the South we thought of ourselves as a nation first, state second.
Click to expand...

As my husband pointed out during one of our very first discussions with each other on the Civil War (on which he is a huge history nut), prior to the Civil War, people referred to our country this way "the United States are". After the Civil War, people referred to our country differently, "the United States is". This subtle change in context/grammar denotes the major change the Civil War brought to our country.
 
notquiteright said:
Nice to see you skipped the scientific fact part... ;)

Well I didn't want to call what a few angry old guys threaten- to be revolution. And if you don't think 'revolution' is gonna mutilate or maim folks you have never been close to combat. It is a maiming and mutilating process. :roll:

I saw where you said you served but last time we spoke you said it was a a deck jockey? Is that naval for grunt? my point is it takes more than a VFW cap to be combat effective.

This isn't 1861 which would have been the high water mark for any 'revolutionaries' to break away or seize the government- how did that go? Not well if the Commanding General of the Southern Forces in Virginia lost his plantation to become the sacred burial ground for our war dead. (considering he could have been hung as a traitor I think General Lee and Southern President Davis, for that matter, got off lucky.)

Now back in 1861 we tended to think of ourselves by state first, nation second, AFTER the Union crushed the South we thought of ourselves as a nation first, state second.

Today I doubt many will cross the picket line as there is no strong state right issue here. if interracial marriage didn't spark this revolution in the 60's then SSM isn't gonna do it now...

I predict no revolution, no rioting in the streets by whoever you think will do so...

More like angry old guys frothing at meetings before going back to their hover rounds and oxygen tanks...
Click to expand...

I was a twin 50 gunner on a PCF (patrol craft fast) naval squadrons 1 and 3 (riverine warfare) during Tet and Sea Lords afterward. !968-1969.

I burned 8 tons of 50 cal ammo in that 12 months.

Qualify in your book?
 
yobarnacle said:
I was a twin 50 gunner on a PCF (patrol craft fast) naval squadrons 1 and 3 (riverine warfare) during Tet and Sea Lords afterward. !968-1969.

I burned 8 tons of 50 cal ammo in that 12 months.

Qualify in your book?
Click to expand...

as an ammo burner yes, so it was you and Kerry, key-rect? I never weighed what I burned up, how do you even do that? I was a ma deuce gunner on a 113 when I first got to Germany, we never weighed our ammo.

Now to address your rather snarky mayhem response... you agree there is rampart mayhem in revolution/war?

The missing science facts-
That were exists a fossil record, dna research, earth strata that are scientific facts supporting a theory, just like gravity?

Now how about the odds of many crossing over to support whoever you think would actually conduct a revolution?

You seem to throw a lot of vague out there, then walk away.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom