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U.S. charges Snowden with espionage [W:60]

DaveFagan said:
I thought you would show the links from El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Philipines, Vietnam, and all the other places we have delivered Corporate friendly dictatorships, or tried to. You know, just own up to some of our/cia scumbag operations.
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I've spent a lot of time in Central America over the past 20 years and it's a very good thing the Communist dictatorships are gone. I'd hired a female architect at one point and her Nicaraguan parents had named her "America" in honor of the country that brought them democracy.

The United States has done a lot of good things in this world and I'd hold there record up next to any other country. Don't believe all the rubbish people say about the country or the people.
 
nota bene said:
From WaPo:

Snowden was charged with theft, “unauthorized communication of national defense information” and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person,” according to the complaint. The last two charges were brought under the 1917 Espionage Act.
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I like how we're the unauthorized persons. Yeah, all this national secrecy stuff is pretty BS.

Red_Dave said:
Espionage on whose behalf?
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Ours. And we can't possibly allow the people of the United States to get a peek at all these secret documents... which mostly contain evidence of them reading our secret documents.

Mr.Nick said:
And in bizarre circumstances the patriot is kicking it in communist land after informing (or rather confirming) the people that the US government operating in authoritarian fashion... Now he can't come back and is stuck with communists who obviously want to know what he knows...

This is the type of **** that happens when you expose this POS authoritarian government - you end up in China - The land where Mao is still held in extremely high regard with force and where Stalin is considered a comrade..
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Why is Snowden a patriot and not Manning?
 
MSgt said:
Own up? Well I'm not in the CIA so there's nothing for me to own up to. Nor did I suggest that the "torture" started with Bush. You did that. I don't mind a little waterboarding for the faithful. And some people in this world simply need killing.
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Are you saying we should water board the religious? Kind of extreme.
 
nota bene said:
I admit to knowing nothing about Iceland's politics, but why would it consider taking Snowden in and possibly offering him citzenship?
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The country has a reputation for defending freedom of speech, unlike our plutocratic dictatorship.
 
Grant said:
I've spent a lot of time in Central America over the past 20 years and it's a very good thing the Communist dictatorships are gone. I'd hired a female architect at one point and her Nicaraguan parents had named her "America" in honor of the country that brought them democracy.

The United States has done a lot of good things in this world and I'd hold there record up next to any other country.
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The US is not the problem. It's the corrupt US regime.
 
Paschendale said:
Why is Snowden a patriot and not Manning?
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Manning indiscriminately gave away a pile of secrets because he was dissatisfied with his service, the Army, and the war. He did it to punish the powers that be.

Snowden exposed a secret program that appears, on the surface, very much like a constitutional affront. He did not do it to punish the government, nor to hurt US interests; he chose a specific journalist he trusted to put another set of eyes on the information before it went public, just to insure there wasn't something in there that could do indiscriminate damage. He did it on behalf of the American citizen.

Manning tried to hurt, even if he thought his intentions (to stop the US from... whatever it was he was accusing it of) were pure. Snowden tried to help.
 
DaveFagan said:
Beginning with GWBush, the first moron, who initiated this wholesale gov't spying, torture, rendition, lying, etc. Obama has continued the practices. Both these Presidents should be prosecuted for stomping on the Bill of Rights.
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Brief history of US Government spying on citizens.

This goes back further then that. Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 were passed by a Federalist Congress during the Quasi-War with France. You couldn't criticize any federal official, except one.. the VP who at the time was Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was John Adams' bitter rival.

1920s had the Cipher Bureau which read every telegraph message sent overseas. Western Union allowed the Government to do this.

1941 Project SHAMROCK and Project MINARET started and lasted until 1975. It was because of these programs FISA courts were created.

In 1978 FISA warrants began to be issued.. before G.W Bush was elected only 5 of 18,000 warrants were denied.

These are just a few of programs ran.. NSA has a half dozen or so from ELECHON to Stellar Wind (Verizon & AT&T).
 
DaveFagan said:
That's the problem. GWBush, the first torturer and Obama are just fine. It's the Bill of Rights that's not so fine. If your allegiance to your country is reflected by your attitude on the leaders, then truth, liberty, freedom, justice, human rights have become irrelevant, eh?
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Calm down, Dave. The sky isn't falling. I know you're scared, but it'll be just fine.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
Manning indiscriminately gave away a pile of secrets because he was dissatisfied with his service, the Army, and the war. He did it to punish the powers that be.

Snowden exposed a secret program that appears, on the surface, very much like a constitutional affront. He did not do it to punish the government, nor to hurt US interests; he chose a specific journalist he trusted to put another set of eyes on the information before it went public, just to insure there wasn't something in there that could do indiscriminate damage. He did it on behalf of the American citizen.

Manning tried to hurt, even if he thought his intentions (to stop the US from... whatever it was he was accusing it of) were pure. Snowden tried to help.
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What about Snowden talking about operations against China? Is that heroic?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Calm down, Dave. The sky isn't falling. I know you're scared, but it'll be just fine.
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I'm as calm as the Sea of Tranquility where you must do your texting from. That lack of oxygen is obvious. That's why Snowden was listening to your phone calls, I guess.
 
Grant said:
I've spent a lot of time in Central America over the past 20 years and it's a very good thing the Communist dictatorships are gone. I'd hired a female architect at one point and her Nicaraguan parents had named her "America" in honor of the country that brought them democracy.

The United States has done a lot of good things in this world and I'd hold there record up next to any other country. Don't believe all the rubbish people say about the country or the people.
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Your architect from is from Nicaragua, the country that Reagan/Bush terrorized. It's leader is Daniel Ortega, who was the leader of the Sandanistas that Reagan/Bush tried to kill. If anyone brought her freedom, it was Ortega, because we peddle oligarchical Dictatorships. We are collectively Americas, North and South and Central and Latin. The USA and Canada are also part of the Americas and neither is America.
 
austrianecon said:
Brief history of US Government spying on citizens.

This goes back further then that. Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 were passed by a Federalist Congress during the Quasi-War with France. You couldn't criticize any federal official, except one.. the VP who at the time was Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was John Adams' bitter rival.

1920s had the Cipher Bureau which read every telegraph message sent overseas. Western Union allowed the Government to do this.

1941 Project SHAMROCK and Project MINARET started and lasted until 1975. It was because of these programs FISA courts were created.

In 1978 FISA warrants began to be issued.. before G.W Bush was elected only 5 of 18,000 warrants were denied.

These are just a few of programs ran.. NSA has a half dozen or so from ELECHON to Stellar Wind (Verizon & AT&T).
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Current problems are a direct result of the Patriot Act, not the historical rights that were more limited.
 
solletica said:
Who the f--- is "we" ? Please explain.
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We, as in we, the United States of America. I wouldn't split hairs here about the collective "we". Whether you agree with what the country is doing or not, if you're American, you're part of the collective "we". Distancing yourself from your government loses most significance at the water's edge.
 
DaveFagan said:
I'm as calm as the Sea of Tranquility where you must do your texting from. That lack of oxygen is obvious. That's why Snowden was listening to your phone calls, I guess.
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Oh. Cause you seem to think the government is out to get you, which obviously isn't something a calm or rational person thinks.

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OldWorldOrder said:
Oh. Cause you seem to think the government is out to get you, which obviously isn't something a calm or rational person thinks.

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I don't think that the gov't is out to get me, I think they got you. As a Nation, we are imperialistic, oppressive, and export war for profit. Within the Nation, the gov't is working hard to feed the masses their mushrooms and not tell them they are living in darkness. Snowden is shining some light in the darkness. You won't be paid to see that.
 
DaveFagan said:
I don't think that the gov't is out to get me, I think they got you. As a Nation, we are imperialistic, oppressive, and export war for profit. Within the Nation, the gov't is working hard to feed the masses their mushrooms and not tell them they are living in darkness. Snowden is shining some light in the darkness. You won't be paid to see that.
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That's a lot of talk without saying anything. I'm not surprised, David. Can you expound on how people are 'living in darkness'?
 
Nice of Obama's friend Putin to provide aid to this poor soul. Putin has Obama wrapped around his finger like a Super Bowl ring.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
That's a lot of talk without saying anything. I'm not surprised, David. Can you expound on how people are 'living in darkness'?
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Certainly! All they have to do is read your posts and they will see how successful good propaganda is at mind bending resulting in an dark intellectual vacuum. I believe Snowden is a threat to you personally.
 
DaveFagan said:
Certainly! All they have to do is read your posts and they will see how successful good propaganda is at mind bending resulting in an dark intellectual vacuum. I believe Snowden is a threat to you personally.
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lol Dave! That didn't expound on anything.
 
Originally I thought Snowden was merely a whistle blower bringing out what he believed to be acts against our freedoms. Now he is proved to be a traitor to all freedom loving nations giving the contents for the four lap tops to the Chinese. How can anyone troubled by the acts of a governemtns aginst it's people side with the most well defined dictatorial forms of government in history? He is not against what our government is doing with Americans he is simply out to destroy America's fight against terrorists. So he bolsters the power of terrorism and it's ability to destroy our actions to stop them so we will again be more vulnerable to their attacks than we were on 09-10-11.He laughs at the 3,000 dead on 9-11.
 
rhinefire said:
Originally I thought Snowden was merely a whistle blower bringing out what he believed to be acts against our freedoms. Now he is proved to be a traitor to all freedom loving nations giving the contents for the four lap tops to the Chinese. How can anyone troubled by the acts of a governemtns aginst it's people side with the most well defined dictatorial forms of government in history? He is not against what our government is doing with Americans he is simply out to destroy America's fight against terrorists. So he bolsters the power of terrorism and it's ability to destroy our actions to stop them so we will again be more vulnerable to their attacks than we were on 09-10-11.He laughs at the 3,000 dead on 9-11.
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What's your evidence for the bold?
 
Espionage is the right charge. Divulging information about the U.S. hacking China to the Chinese is traitorous, and he deserves to be punished for it, even though it was pretty much common well-known information that we were doing it. However, I don't think he should be punished for leaking information about the PRISM program. For I believe that if he had gone the legal route, we, the people, would have never been the wiser. I'm not buying that the revelation has hurt us in any fashion. It is 2013, the War on Terrorism started before 09/11/01, communications were being monitored before then. If Mohammed Jihad stops using G-Mail, and starts using Hotmail, we'll just watch that too. It is not a hard fix. I believe the U.S. and U.K. governments are just upset that their populaces are more informed in the ways that they're being spied on by them.
 
If the administration is smart, they would splash that plane over open ocean.
Snowden is a criminal and has declared himself an enemy of the state.
 
CRUE CAB said:
If the administration is smart, they would splash that plane over open ocean.
Snowden is a criminal and has declared himself an enemy of the state.
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... While killing everyone else on board? That's not very moderate, in fact, that's down right extreme - something you'd hear Senator Lindsay Graham or former Vice President Dick Cheney say.
 
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