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IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

They were not targeted. I'm not sure that there is even any legitimate debate over that.

Wow, talk about opposite ends of the spectrum.
Is this a semantic argument about the use of the word "targeted"? Would you prefer "unequally scrutinized based on political lean"?
 
You may have a point there. The Democrats court social conservatives and the Republicans court fiscal liberals. Those seem to be the swing voters but fiscal conservatives account for a huge portion of voters and we're fed up with both parties being against us.

Poll: GOP Can Broaden Appeal by Sticking to Fiscal Conservatism - US News and World Report

I agree. I am a fiscal conservative. Also, on the social side, I am pro-life, pro-gun and anti-government cheese. However, I do not feel the need to cram my conservative-side beliefs down the throats of my fellow American's and mandate that they live by my personal beliefs. That makes me, technically, according to extreme righties, a liberal.

I believe the GOP has became too dependent on the social conservatives, which mainstream, middle-of-the-road people (read; majority,) just seem to love to hate, and it is costing them dearly. But they are between the proverbial rock and hard place. If they cast away the social conservatives and Tea Party types from their flock, will there be enough moderates to fill the void? With with the recent "GOP obstruction" attitudes people have towards the GOP, and given the republican led congress disapproval numbers, would shunning the TP'er's even be enough to save their sinking ship?


Yes, the GOP has some hard decisions to make in the near future. I wish them well. Imagine how this country would be if the democrats had full control. I shutter to think about that. I hope when the smoke clears and cooler heads start prevailing, the GOP can fulfill it's potential and get back in step with America. But it helps them none when America identifies the likes of Palin, Bachmann, Perry, Cruz and FOXNews when they think of the GOP. They need to repair that brand image as well.
 
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Is this a semantic argument about the use of the word "targeted"? Would you prefer "unequally scrutinized based on political lean"?

The OP's article states: "An internal IRS report found the agency improperly targeted the small-government advocates for additional scrutiny."

Didn't think we would have folks insisting that they weren't targeted.
 
The OP's article states: "An internal IRS report found the agency improperly targeted the small-government advocates for additional scrutiny."

Didn't think we would have folks insisting that they weren't targeted.

Kind of depends on whether progressive groups were equally selected out. No word on that after all the so-called investigations.

Still, I'm happy to say that the tea party was targeted, now that it's clear a GOP operative was behind the targeting. Looks more and more like a Nixonian GOP dirty trick, perhaps linked to Issa.

Shouldn't we investigate that?
 
Is this a semantic argument about the use of the word "targeted"? Would you prefer "unequally scrutinized based on political lean"?

No need for political correctness. They both mean the same thing.

And no, it appears that this "scandal" is once again another big ****ing waste of time and energy.
 
when mr shafer referred apps back for "more information," did he instruct his agents to inquire about the content of applicants' prayers?

who did?

did mr shafer direct his workers to demand donor lists?

who did?

mr shafer said he did not instruct his officials to target tea and patriot groups

who did?

why does mr muthert testify he was directed to target tea apps by shafer?

why did ms hofacre swear she was "micromanaged" by carter hull in washington?

why did ms paz in dc request apps from cincy, why did ms hofacre send her superior in the capital 7?

how did propublica get nam's records?

did mr shafer contribute money to the romney campaign?

more broadly---

why can't obama say flatly when he learned what was going on at his irs for 2 years?

why does he claim to have read it in the paper?

how could his cos and white house counsel know and not their client?

why did shulman and miller lie to congress, why did lerner plead the 5th?

where is holly paz?

why did the white house blame rogues outta cincy, even cummings today concedes it came from dc?

why were obama's most pointed opponents picked out?

and why were progressives given a pass?

why has the admin's account gone thru so many tortuous tergiversations?

why do half million dollar donors to ofa get to meet with the white house every 3 months?

do you know how hard it is to get americans to say they're concerned their cic is a crook?

cnn yesterday has 47% saying the president, like nixon, went after his enemies

CNN Poll: Did White House order IRS targeting? – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

that's 10% more than felt that way in may

this is a poll, mind you, of american adults

that is, if we were asking likely voters, or even those merely registered, we'd top 50

if the white house continues to fail to answer the bottom line questions above, what will those surveys suggest next month?

why do cnn's gloria borger and jon king, natl journal's ron fournier, msnbc's richard todd and many more friends or former friends of this white house urge obama to come clean, for his and their good?

has he?

stay tuned

this does not appear to be political, but bungling

you don't know that, you're prejudging

why?

are you prejudiced?
 
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Kind of depends on whether progressive groups were equally selected out. No word on that after all the so-called investigations.

Still, I'm happy to say that the tea party was targeted, now that it's clear a GOP operative was behind the targeting. Looks more and more like a Nixonian GOP dirty trick, perhaps linked to Issa.

Shouldn't we investigate that?

Should be easy enough to find out. OFA hasn't applied yet, but since they have 2 years to apply, I'm betting they will wait till their limit and disband. If they did apply, they should get red-flagged immediately since they don't qualify as a 501(c)4 since their primary goal is political.

Also, not sure how an individual can be called a "GOP operative" simply by identifying themselves as a Republican, quite a stretch there. His testimony is at odds with others at the Cincinnati office who stated, under penalty of perjury, that they were pressured from the IRS office in Washingon to target Tea Party groups
 
Of course not

It's proof that even "self-described conservative republicans" were conspiring to defeat Romney :roll:

And what proof do you have he was a republican? because Cummings says so? why would any one want to believe Cummings? he already lied about what that so called republican said so why should we believe Cummings when he says he is a republican?

this is what Cummings claimed the manerger said

"This Republican manager said there was no White House involvement, no political involvement, none of that. He made the decision doing the best he could to have some kind of consistency."

and this is actually what the manager said

The IRS manager, who was not named by the committee, said, “I am not aware of that,” when asked directly about a political bias or political motivations behind the targeting of conservative groups. And he said he had “no reason to believe” that the White House was involved in the decision to target conservatives.

big difference between “I am not aware of that,”“no reason to believe” and "there was no White House involvement, no political involvement"

so if Cumming will lie about what the so called conservative said he will lie about him being a conservative
 
Any old timer here will tell you that I was one of the very first to oppose Bush's war in Iraq. And, who the hell is "my people"? Fact is, you are nothing but a hack.

I'm not questioning you on being against the Iraq war. Otherwise, just stop short of the personal insults when you address me and everybody will be happy. And your people would be Americans and I didn't make any further distinction than that. Are you hearing voices?
 
I agree. I am a fiscal conservative. Also, on the social side, I am pro-life, pro-gun and anti-government cheese. However, I do not feel the need to cram my conservative-side beliefs down the throats of my fellow American's and mandate that they live by my personal beliefs. That makes me, technically, according to extreme righties, a liberal.

I believe the GOP has became too dependent on the social conservatives, which mainstream, middle-of-the-road people (read; majority,) just seem to love to hate, and it is costing them dearly. But they are between the proverbial rock and hard place. If they cast away the social conservatives and Tea Party types from their flock, will there be enough moderates to fill the void? With with the recent "GOP obstruction" attitudes people have towards the GOP, and given the republican led congress disapproval numbers, would shunning the TP'er's even be enough to save their sinking ship?


Yes, the GOP has some hard decisions to make in the near future. I wish them well. Imagine how this country would be if the democrats had full control. I shutter to think about that. I hope when the smoke clears and cooler heads start prevailing, the GOP can fulfill it's potential and get back in step with America. But it helps them none when America identifies the likes of Palin, Bachmann, Perry, Cruz and FOXNews when they think of the GOP. They need to repair that brand image as well.
If they cast away the Tea Party AND the social conservatives, they'd be the exact opposite of who they are now and that would put them to the left of the Democrats. All of the moderates would flock to the Democrats. If they're gonna ditch one or the other, it should be the social conservatives. These data agree with me. Fewer Americans Identify as Economic Conservatives in 2013 . IOW, the GOP needs to be more libertarian.
 
Kind of depends on whether progressive groups were equally selected out. No word on that after all the so-called investigations.
Yes, after all the investigating, there's no evidence that left leaning groups were scrutinized the way that right leaning groups were.
 
Oh FFS....

Without regard to who started the targeting or why we have seen and heard several top level officials who acknowledged that they were aware that the targeting was going on and did nothing about it. That's unacceptable under any circumstances. If nobody informed the White House that doesn't mean that the White House is guiltless in this. Oversight starts at the top and if the top has opted to insulate itself rather than lead then it becomes nothing more than a pawn of the infrastructure beneath it.

True

The fact that republicans lied is unimportant. The fact that the Obama administration did not lie is not important

What's important is that Obama get the blame, one way or another. It's a matter of principle!
 
Should be easy enough to find out. OFA hasn't applied yet, but since they have 2 years to apply, I'm betting they will wait till their limit and disband. If they did apply, they should get red-flagged immediately since they don't qualify as a 501(c)4 since their primary goal is political.

Also, not sure how an individual can be called a "GOP operative" simply by identifying themselves as a Republican, quite a stretch there. His testimony is at odds with others at the Cincinnati office who stated, under penalty of perjury, that they were pressured from the IRS office in Washingon to target Tea Party groups

Basically Issa blamed Obama for IRS staffers, so your crocodile tears are noted. We know that a conservative Republican was behind this "scandal". Reason enough now to investigate whether GOP higher ups were involved. You can't have your partisan cake and eat it too.
 
Predictable. It was a GOP operative all along. Either he was trying to create a fake scandal that he knew Issa would pick up (perhaps working with him -- that should be investigated) or he was trying to harm the tea party because it deflated GOP electoral prospects (again perhaps while working with the GOP leadership).

We need to investigate the GOP connection with this, starting with Issa.

Paranoia will destroy 'ya. LOL.
 
That's not what I meant. Why do you blame the Democratic majority on the Tea Party?

The reason that a democratic majority exists is because republicans ran conservative candidates a that were either bad candidates or extreme idealoges and cost the republicans potential victorys in senate races in Delaware, Nevada, Indiana, and Missouri.
 
By a GOP operative.

Doesn't fit into your narrative too well, does it?

I don't care if they were targeted by some idiot in a chicken costume! This is the government unduly screwing with American citizens based on nothing more than political ideology and it's intolerable.
 
I don't care if they were targeted by some idiot in a chicken costume! This is the government unduly screwing with American citizens based on nothing more than political ideology and it's intolerable.

That is a lie

From the article
The manager further testified that the Tea Party groups were deliberately grouped together so that they would receive consistent treatment. “There was a lot of concerns about making sure that any cases that had, you know, similar-type activities or items included, that they would be worked by the same agent or same group,” the manager testified.
 
I don't care if they were targeted by some idiot in a chicken costume! This is the government unduly screwing with American citizens based on nothing more than political ideology and it's intolerable.

Yeah, but that's only your opinion. If it can't be by Obama then nobody really cares anymore. And besides, if it's not by Obama then it isn't political ideology anymore either. It's necessary for the nation's security because otherwise more chickens are going to come home and could make you care again.
 
True

The fact that republicans lied is unimportant. The fact that the Obama administration did not lie is not important

What's important is that Obama get the blame, one way or another. It's a matter of principle!

Why do you have such a problem with holding the government accountable for their actions? The current administration has plead ignorance to the IRS issue, the Benghazi issue and the wiretapping of reporters as well as F&F before that. The stuff that they have admitted to and defended includes collecting personal information on ALL American citizens. Don't you find that to be the least bit troubling?

The two houses of Congress are the people's representatives. They are supposed to be accountable to the people and part of that accountability is taking reasonable actions to insure that government isn't treading too heavily on the toes of law abiding citizens. In light of the current situation I welcome these investigations. At least they're investigating something that matters instead of steroids in baseball.
 
I don't care if they were targeted by some idiot in a chicken costume! This is the government unduly screwing with American citizens based on nothing more than political ideology and it's intolerable.
That's what's relevant and that's what we know for sure. The only question is; how high does it go?
 
That is a lie

From the article

Dude, the TIGTA report shows how that "grouping" was accomplished and although grouping all the applicants that had "Tea Party" or "Patriot" in their name or talked about Constitutional overreach may be consistent that doesn't mean that it wasn't targeting based on political ideology.
 
That is a lie

From the article
"consistent" as in all Tea Party groups being treated like each other, but not "consistent" as in being treated like liberal groups
 
Yeah, but that's only your opinion. If it can't be by Obama then nobody really cares anymore. And besides, if it's not by Obama then it isn't political ideology anymore either. It's necessary for the nation's security because otherwise more chickens are going to come home and could make you care again.
"political Ideology" as in behavior, not motive
 
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