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Grandma, 72, shoots at home intruder in California, defends actions

ocean515 said:
So allowing people to die is the answer?
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No...the answer is clear and it already begun. First, modify the 3x law to reflect that people actually THOUGHT the law did, i.e., toughen sanctions against the most serious and violent felony offenders. This doesn't mean throwing the book at a 58 year old drug addict arrested for a rock of cocaine who has two robbery convictions from 27 years ago. The voter passed initiative in the last election requires that the third strike be a serious or violent offense. Consequently, prison beds will not be taken up with long prison sentences by those convicted of non-violent offenses.
The second solution is to change the law to allow simple possession to be charged as a wobbler, i.e., a felony or misdemeanor depending on the facts and the individuals record. This ensures that those who are first or relatively minor offenders will not spend lengthy prison sentences taking up beds that should be reserved for serious/violent offenders, while still allowing the prosecution leverage to charge repeat offenders as felons, thus allowing lengthier sentences.

Those are just 2 examples of "Smart Justice"....things that can be done that actually SAVE taxpayer money. Why is it that so-called "Conservatives" only solutions to the problems is spending more and more tax payer money building more prisons?
 
disneydude said:
No...the answer is clear and it already begun. First, modify the 3x law to reflect that people actually THOUGHT the law did, i.e., toughen sanctions against the most serious and violent felony offenders. This doesn't mean throwing the book at a 58 year old drug addict arrested for a rock of cocaine who has two robbery convictions from 27 years ago. The voter passed initiative in the last election requires that the third strike be a serious or violent offense. Consequently, prison beds will not be taken up with long prison sentences by those convicted of non-violent offenses.
The second solution is to change the law to allow simple possession to be charged as a wobbler, i.e., a felony or misdemeanor depending on the facts and the individuals record. This ensures that those who are first or relatively minor offenders will not spend lengthy prison sentences taking up beds that should be reserved for serious/violent offenders, while still allowing the prosecution leverage to charge repeat offenders as felons, thus allowing lengthier sentences.

Those are just 2 examples of "Smart Justice"....things that can be done that actually SAVE taxpayer money. Why is it that so-called "Conservatives" only solutions to the problems is spending more and more tax payer money building more prisons?
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Smart Justice?

Hey, I've had to live with what voters have done to this state, so why shouldn't those too stupid to stay out of prison have to do the same. Voters passed a law to modify 3X laws. So be it.

How does that change the fact violent criminals are being released due to budget deficts caused by overspending?

You write about leaps in logic while still in the air from the last post.

How many 3X felons because of $5 rocks of crack do you think are in the state prison population? Care to post some numbers?
 
ocean515 said:
Smart Justice?

Hey, I've had to live with what voters have done to this state, so why shouldn't those too stupid to stay out of prison have to do the same. Voters passed a law to modify 3X laws. So be it.

How does that change the fact violent criminals are being released due to budget deficts caused by overspending?

You write about leaps in logic while still in the air from the last post.

How many 3X felons because of $5 rocks of crack do you think are in the state prison population? Care to post some numbers?
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Sure...when I get a chance I'll do some research for you and post it. Here is a start....showing how Smart Justice like Prop 36 has decreased the levels of non-violent offenders in prison, thus freeing up more space for violent/serious offenders:

California's Changing Prison Population (PPIC Publication)
The violent crime rate has dropped from more than 1,000 per 100,000 residents in 1990 to less than 500 in 2010. The number of prisoners serving time for drug offenses has dropped by 20,000 since 2000, in part due to Proposition 36, which mandates treatment instead of incarceration for some drug felons. More recently, under realignment, many other nonviolent felony offenders are now remanded to local custody instead of to state prison, further concentrating the proportion of violent felony offenders in state institutions.


And yet again.....you cry about "overspending"....and what is the one solution that you have offered to this debate? Lets see......hmmmmmm......Spending millions and millions of taxpayer money building more prisons and employing more prison guards. Forgive me if I'm tripping over your blatant hypocritical gaps in logic.
 
disneydude said:
Care to back up that bold faced lie with an example of someone in Los Angeles recently who defended his home against a burglar who was arrested and charged?
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Hey disneydude :2wave:

Just want to remind you, you can't even shoot your Daisy Red Ryder BB gun with in the city limits of Los Angeles.

Daisy-boy-sign-large.jpg
 
disneydude said:
Sure...when I get a chance I'll do some research for you and post it. Here is a start....showing how Smart Justice like Prop 36 has decreased the levels of non-violent offenders in prison, thus freeing up more space for violent/serious offenders:

California's Changing Prison Population (PPIC Publication)
The violent crime rate has dropped from more than 1,000 per 100,000 residents in 1990 to less than 500 in 2010. The number of prisoners serving time for drug offenses has dropped by 20,000 since 2000, in part due to Proposition 36, which mandates treatment instead of incarceration for some drug felons. More recently, under realignment, many other nonviolent felony offenders are now remanded to local custody instead of to state prison, further concentrating the proportion of violent felony offenders in state institutions.


And yet again.....you cry about "overspending"....and what is the one solution that you have offered to this debate? Lets see......hmmmmmm......Spending millions and millions of taxpayer money building more prisons and employing more prison guards. Forgive me if I'm tripping over your blatant hypocritical gaps in logic.
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Hmmm.

Well, I suppose I'll try to overlook the fact you have posted something over a year old, and from the wildly Progressive Public Policy Institute.

Of course there is this part from your friends at PPIC:

In response to the Supreme Court mandate, California now sends many lower-level offenders to local custody instead of to state prison. Since the advent of realignment on October 1, 2011, the total in-custody prison population has fallen by 12%, from 161,000 to 141,000 at the end of February 2012.​

Again, about that local custody thing. What do you think happens when those violent criminals hit the local levels? They are getting released, as I have posted from numerous sources.

Then there is this, from the same source:

Though the violent crime rate is down, a majority of prisoners (63%) are serving time for violent crimes.​

I thought the state prisons were full of innocent 3X felons caught with $5 rocks of crack?

You're not gaining much ground here DD.
 
ocean515 said:
Hmmm.

Well, I suppose I'll try to overlook the fact you have posted something over a year old, and from the wildly Progressive Public Policy Institute.

Of course there is this part from your friends at PPIC:

In response to the Supreme Court mandate, California now sends many lower-level offenders to local custody instead of to state prison. Since the advent of realignment on October 1, 2011, the total in-custody prison population has fallen by 12%, from 161,000 to 141,000 at the end of February 2012.​

Again, about that local custody thing. What do you think happens when those violent criminals hit the local levels? They are getting released, as I have posted from numerous sources.

Then there is this, from the same source:

Though the violent crime rate is down, a majority of prisoners (63%) are serving time for violent crimes.​

I thought the state prisons were full of innocent 3X felons caught with $5 rocks of crack?

You're not gaining much ground here DD.
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LOL....another incredible show of logic from you.

Thank you for pointing out in your post that I am correct....that the effect of smart justice progams is having a successful effect in ensuring that the majority of prisoners are serving time for violent crimes when you change the laws taking up beds for the $5 rock offender. Classic!

Prior to Prop 36 and the modification of 3x those offenders were taking up prison beds.

Leave it to a "conservative" to stare succesful legislation in the face and fail to see the effects.
 
APACHERAT said:
Because it's a boy thing.

You don't want the kids in your neighborhood bullying you and calling you a liberal pantywaist do you ?
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thats funny...nah....I never had a gun, although I shot guns in Scouting and stuff like that....never really enjoyed it. I had no problems being bullied or called a "lberal panywaist"...I was pretty easy to get along with.
 
MaggieD said:
As if she had to defend her actions:



Sans her gun, we'd be reading a very different story about Gram and her 85-year-old husband.

If we're going to report horror stories, we need to report when the good guys win. Thoughts?
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Someone needs to take Granny down to the range.
 
iacardsfan said:
Self defense can be achieved without a high powered assault rifle! If a 72 year old woman can defend herself with a revolver than anybody can.
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Here we go. :roll:
 
disneydude said:
LOL....another incredible show of logic from you.

Thank you for pointing out in your post that I am correct....that the effect of smart justice progams is having a successful effect in ensuring that the majority of prisoners are serving time for violent crimes when you change the laws taking up beds for the $5 rock offender. Classic!

Prior to Prop 36 and the modification of 3x those offenders were taking up prison beds.

Leave it to a "conservative" to stare succesful legislation in the face and fail to see the effects.
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Dang DD, I couldn't possibly hope to de-throne you from the "incredible show of logic" title.


Violent criminals are being released TODAY. They are going out and harming the public. This is the result of budget gimmicks Progressives are making to try and balance the budget while maintaining pay and benefits to public employee unions.

Would it be possible for you to stick to the point, rather than flopping around in some off point thing you're doing?
 
MaggieD said:
There is no doubt in my mind that this home was targeted by this jerk. Two old people. That's no coincidence.

My mom is 83, her partner is 82. There are some druggies across the street who asked her one day who lives with her. I take that very seriously. I don't know what she could do to counter that, but I will never forget they asked.
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She could bait them for one last criminal visit of their natural lives.
 
MaggieD said:
I firmly believe this man (who lived in a half-way house nearby) targeted this elderly family -- because I agree with you. Continuing in the face of a big-assed barking dog makes no sense.
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This solid citizen probably thought the dog was their best defense. Since he was able to get past the dog, he thought he was home free. LOL was a bonehead. Got hisseff a big surprise!!
 
ocean515 said:
Dang DD, I couldn't possibly hope to de-throne you from the "incredible show of logic" title.


Violent criminals are being released TODAY. They are going out and harming the public. This is the result of budget gimmicks Progressives are making to try and balance the budget while maintaining pay and benefits to public employee unions.

Would it be possible for you to stick to the point, rather than flopping around in some off point thing you're doing?
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What part of this is happening less and less because bed space is being freed up by Smart Justice ideas like Prop 36 and 3X modification do you not understand? The more bed space you free up with non-violent offenders, the more bed space is available for the serious and violent offender. That is basic math.

Despite your leaps in logic.....prison overcrowding has nothing to do with a rant you want to make about public employees. Sorry....there is simply no correlation there.

Want to stick to a point? How do you explain the obvious hypocrisy in your cries about governmental overspending while claiming the only solution to release of prisoners is spending millions upon millions of taxpayer money building more and more prisons and paying more and more prison guards? Do you not see the lack of logic in such an argument? Or is it the only solution that so-called "Conservatives" have to offer?
 
disneydude said:
What part of this is happening less and less because bed space is being freed up by Smart Justice ideas like Prop 36 and 3X modification do you not understand? The more bed space you free up with non-violent offenders, the more bed space is available for the serious and violent offender. That is basic math.

Despite your leaps in logic.....prison overcrowding has nothing to do with a rant you want to make about public employees. Sorry....there is simply no correlation there.

Want to stick to a point? How do you explain the obvious hypocrisy in your cries about governmental overspending while claiming the only solution to release of prisoners is spending millions upon millions of taxpayer money building more and more prisons and paying more and more prison guards? Do you not see the lack of logic in such an argument? Or is it the only solution that so-called "Conservatives" have to offer?
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I really have no interest in trying to further educate you on what is happening right now, today.

I suggest you run along to another cause because you've failed on this one.

Violent criminals are being released right now. The rest of your "don't bust the druggies" rant has no bearing on this fact.
 
ocean515 said:
I really have no interest in trying to further educate you on what is happening right now, today.

I suggest you run along to another cause because you've failed on this one.

Violent criminals are being released right now. The rest of your "don't bust the druggies" rant has no bearing on this fact.
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LoL....like a typical conservative...you've lost the battle you punt. Sorry Ocean...but it has nothing to do with "don't bust the druggies"...it has everything to do with making sure our prisons are doing what they are intended to do, keep the public safe by keeping the serious/violent offenders off the streets. You have rather conveniently ignored the fact that the solutions that I pointed out are being successful at that...the only thing you have offered in your last 20 posts is "spend more tax payer money and build more prisons"....while at the same time talking out the other side of your mouth and crying about government overspending. You can't even win a debate with yourself. Good luck.
 
sangha said:
And not just any big-assed dog...a freaking Rottweiler!

People make a big deal out of pit bulls, but most of them are pretty friendly. If a burglar breaks in, they're just as likely to show the intruder where the good stuff is.

Rotties, on the other hand, are known for being protective and territorial.
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Interestingly enough (but sensible, if one thinks it through), a soldier once told me that a big dog is less a deterrent to a burglar (or a soldier) than a small one. If someone is entering your home after hearing that Rottie barking, he's prepared to deal with him (knife) if he should attack. Ankle biters?? They're effective noise makers. Ha!
 
disneydude said:
LoL....like a typical conservative...you've lost the battle you punt. Sorry Ocean...but it has nothing to do with "don't bust the druggies"...it has everything to do with making sure our prisons are doing what they are intended to do, keep the public safe by keeping the serious/violent offenders off the streets. You have rather conveniently ignored the fact that the solutions that I pointed out are being successful at that...the only thing you have offered in your last 20 posts is "spend more tax payer money and build more prisons"....while at the same time talking out the other side of your mouth and crying about government overspending. You can't even win a debate with yourself. Good luck.
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LOL.

I haven't punted DD. I've grown bored of you. Unlike you, I don't get personal validation by thinking I've won a debate on a website where everyone is anonymous.

You're into legalizing drugs, and you've derailed the point to make your desire known.

I don't think your argument will bring much comfort to those who mourn the death of their loved ones who were killed at the hands of the violent criminals freed through early release programs pushed by ProgLibs in Sacremento.
 
iacardsfan said:
Self defense can be achieved without a high powered assault rifle! If a 72 year old woman can defend herself with a revolver than anybody can.
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After my Dad died, my Mom had two revolvers she couldn't use because the trigger pull was too stiff. I swapped her a semi-auto pistol for one of the revolvers; suddenly she went from barely scaring the target to drilling out the K-zone like a pro.


I said "You keep that one long as you need it, Ma."


One size does not fit all...
 
Goshin said:
After my Dad died, my Mom had two revolvers she couldn't use because the trigger pull was too stiff. I swapped her a semi-auto pistol for one of the revolvers; suddenly she went from barely scaring the target to drilling out the K-zone like a pro.


I said "You keep that one long as you need it, Ma."


One size does not fit all...
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Don't you know that your mother doesn't need a semi-automatic assault pistol!!!! Use a shotgun....give two blasts in the air like Biden says. Come to you senses man!

;)
 
American said:
Don't you know that your mother doesn't need a semi-automatic assault pistol!!!! Use a shotgun....give two blasts in the air like Biden says. Come to you senses man!

;)
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Ma couldn't have held a full-size shotgun steady at that point in her life, too heavy... so Uncle Joe can kiss my ass.... :)
 
What's with all the comments about being surprised that someone in California has a gun in their house?? WTF? I've lived in California nearly all my life, and there has always been a gun in my home, even when I was a child. I'm annoyed that a radically liberal California legislature has been whacking away at our ability to buy and own certain semi-automatic weaponry, and is trying to limit ammunition sales, etc. But yes, Californians can legally purchase and own guns.

Bravo for the brave woman who protected her wheelchair-bound husband. You go, girl!!
 
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