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Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

I hope some one can explain this to me
Obama made a speech claiming that all of congress was informed on the NSA information gathering
If that is true how is it that what Snowden did was a leak? you cant leak information that has supposedly had been already made public. Can you?
 
trfjr said:
I hope some one can explain this to me
Obama made a speech claiming that all of congress was informed on the NSA information gathering
If that is true how is it that what Snowden did was a leak? you cant leak information that has supposedly had been already made public. Can you?
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Well remember that members of Congress have security clearances, and a need to know.
 
Jack Hays said:
"The articles published in conjunction with these leaks contain numerous inaccuracies, both in describing the purpose of our efforts and in the way they characterize the work that we do.":2usflag:
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So they say.
 
trfjr said:
I hope some one can explain this to me
Obama made a speech claiming that all of congress was informed on the NSA information gathering
If that is true how is it that what Snowden did was a leak? you cant leak information that has supposedly had been already made public. Can you?
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If I said Obama lied would that be too obvious ?
 
cpwill said:
:
B) however, it does validate the model of using programming to scan for indicators such as communications with known terrorists to cue actual analyst collection and processing of specific data.
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Everyone expects that communications with known terrorists are monitored and tracked and they don't object to it because there is good reason to suspect that someone communicating with a known terrorist is likely to be involved in criminal activity. Information that is readily accessible to anyone with an internet connection is not private so it is not an issue if the government monitors it.

By contrast, telephone calls and e-mail messages by people who are not under specific suspicion are reasonably expected to be private. If there is no reasonable suspicion about an individual or specific group of individuals then the government is specifically prohibited from violating their privacy.
 
bubbabgone said:
If I said Obama lied would that be too obvious ?
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Everyone lies. Politicians, citizens, police, judges, doctors. If you are human and you are breathing, you've told lies. Including when it comes to critical things.
 
Hard Truth said:
Everyone expects that communications with known terrorists are monitored and tracked and they don't object to it because there is good reason to suspect that someone communicating with a known terrorist is likely to be involved in criminal activity. Information that is readily accessible to anyone with an internet connection is not private so it is not an issue if the government monitors it.

By contrast, telephone calls and e-mail messages by people who are not under specific suspicion are reasonably expected to be private. If there is no reasonable suspicion about an individual or specific group of individuals then the government is specifically prohibited from violating their privacy.
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You'd've thought, huh.
 
Visbek said:
Everyone lies. Politicians, citizens, police, judges, doctors. If you are human and you are breathing, you've told lies. Including when it comes to critical things.
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That's not intended as a WhiteWashParagon.jpg of our President, his NSA head, his IRS head, and various other Administration officials, is it?
 
trfjr said:
you are wrong majority of congress do not go through or take an oath of security only the ones in select committees do

Do Members of Congress Have Security Clearances? - GovLoop - Knowledge Network for Government
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Oath of security? Those supposed briefed would be on intelligence committees, what be required to have clearances probably TS. Anyway, what oath of security are you referring to?

Okay I see, Oath of Secrecy. Sounds rather clubbish. Most everyone else (i.e., military) have to go through a background check, interview, and training on the handling of classified data.
 
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trfjr said:
I hope some one can explain this to me
Obama made a speech claiming that all of congress was informed on the NSA information gathering
If that is true how is it that what Snowden did was a leak? you cant leak information that has supposedly had been already made public. Can you?
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for that promise, A promise that cant be made so how do you support a program that you cant promise it wont be abused. with this administrations track record how would anyone trust them with all that information?
 
Visbek said:
Everyone lies. Politicians, citizens, police, judges, doctors. If you are human and you are breathing, you've told lies. Including when it comes to critical things.
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Sorry, but no. Not close. If you want to count "white lies", or such as pretending there is a Santa Claus, then your statement is correct. But blatant lies ? No. Many of us do not, and have not.

Obama, however, lies like he could care less. He has eroded the credibility of the office to Nixonian levels again, and its still going down.
 
Hard Truth said:
By contrast, telephone calls and e-mail messages by people who are not under specific suspicion are reasonably expected to be private.
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And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
 
cpwill said:
And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
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Purportedly correct, but the record of the numbers you called and/or the people you e-mailed and when you called or e-mailed is also reasonably expected to be private.
 
cpwill said:
And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
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The numbers of the two phones was collected.

The length of the call was recorded.

The exact location of both phones was recorded.

This was all done without any suspicion whatsoever that any of the callers was involved in terrorist activity.

Why are you ok with this?
 
cpwill said:
And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
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That we know of ......... :roll: ............ yet.

Meanwhile, it appears that all this is way beyond what the Patriot Act authorized. And what Obama promised. Its time to say "enough".
 
cpwill said:
And they are. No ones' content was collected or analyzed (that we know of) unless there was justification such as the scenario you yourself outlined.
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Snowden made it clear that they collect all data and worry about sorting it out later.
 
Kanstantine said:
The numbers of the two phones was collected.

The length of the call was recorded.

The exact location of both phones was recorded.

This was all done without any suspicion whatsoever that any of the callers was involved in terrorist activity.

Why are you ok with this?
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:shrug: As I've said, the programs make me uncomfortable, and I am understanding of the argument that the potential for abuse outweighs the benefit gained; though I think we should be willing to accurately describe the benefit gained as "fewer successful attacks against Americans".


But realistically, everything you do that is electronic and transmitted goes into a database and is stored, and is nigh on impossible to fully erase. If someone with the resources of the US IC wants that data, they are going to be able to get it out of that database - your only real defeat mechanism is encryption, and that will only protect content (which isn't being widely collected anyway - again, that we know of).


You know that part in the cop show where the lawyer asks the guy on the witness stand

"And so Mr Smith, you say you had no contact with the deceased on the night of the murder?"

"Mr Smith: That is correct"

"Lawyer: But isn't it true, Mr Smith, that the record shows that your cell phone made three calls to the victims' cell phone that night, and that all three resulted in conversations?"

[Dramatic Music Plays][Jury Gasps][Guilty Looking Guy Who Was Really Innocent Whom Matlock Just Saved Looks Relieved]


Well.....what record did you think they were referring to all these years? All that stuff is stored, and available to the government if they have a warrant. Which, they did.
 
American said:
Snowden made it clear that they collect all data and worry about sorting it out later.
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Fair - I need to point out that I am discussing explicitly the distinction between machine storage of data and actual human compilation of information for processing and analysis.


But (as I pointed out above in the Matlock example) all that data has been getting collected and stored for decades, and wasn't exactly a secret.
 
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Eighty Deuce said:
That we know of ......... :roll: ............ yet.
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That is correct. We also don't know if the Government has been in contact with Aliens, or is actually running a Jason-Bourne esque super-Assassin program utilizing mind-altering drugs and enhanced interrogation methods. But what I am pointing out is that there is a difference between a program and an abuse of a program.

Meanwhile, it appears that all this is way beyond what the Patriot Act authorized. And what Obama promised. Its time to say "enough".
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:shrug: maybe so.
 
cpwill said:
That is correct. We also don't know if the Government has been in contact with Aliens, or is actually running a Jason-Bourne esque super-Assassin program utilizing mind-altering drugs and enhanced interrogation methods. But what I am pointing out is that there is a difference between a program and an abuse of a program.
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And our confidence in the Executive to not abuse has been bolstered when ? Regardless, the extent of the harvesting seems to be way beyond what the Patriot Act authorized, and way beyond what Obama reassured those that believed him would happen !!!

This issue may be the only time that I have ever thought you were on the wrong side of the issue. Maybe a bit abstract, but how do you like this: All of the providers, such as Verizon and Gmail, etc, have clauses in their agreement with you to protect your info from all. That it is private and safe. Not shared. Even today.

So what does the Obama Admin do ? Gives them immunity from any prosecution for that being a lie.

What a racket !!

C'mon back over. Me thinks you got off a bit hasty on the wrong side on this one. :wink:
 
Eighty Deuce said:
And our confidence in the Executive to not abuse has been bolstered when ?
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:) not lately. As I've been saying, the possibility for good is as immense here as the possibility for abuse. If we as a people want to say that we think the latter outweighs the former, tthen that's fine. But we need to honestly admit that we are making a relative rather than an absolute judgement - there isn't an option where we retain only the power that can do good while losing only the power that can do evil.

Regardless, the extent of the harvesting seems to be way beyond what the Patriot Act authorized, and way beyond what Obama reassured those that believed him would happen !!!
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That last is certainly true.

This issue may be the only time that I have ever thought you were on the wrong side of the issue. Maybe a bit abstract, but how do you like this: All of the providers, such as Verizon and Gmail, etc, have clauses in their agreement with you to protect your info from all. That it is private and safe. Not shared. Even today.

So what does the Obama Admin do ? Gives them immunity from any prosecution for that being a lie.

What a racket !!

C'mon back over. Me thinks you got off a bit hasty on the wrong side on this one. :wink:
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:lol: the exact opposite, actually :)
 
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