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Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

The surgery is necessary for the mental health of the patient. You may see it as unnecessary but it is. SRS is not paid for by the government it is paid for by the person or insurance companies. In many countries it is covered as part of the health program and it should be. In the US public covers very little for mental health or teeth or eyes. Go figure. There are great measures taken to see that SRS does not happen to a person not really transgender. This is so in all the countries I can think of. Even in the countries where it is covered.

Stating psychology in general, but worse in a "field" that is very new and has very little in the way of research, as leading to such NECESSARY conclusions is inappropriate. This goes for any topic, not just transgender, be advised. You have no idea where the costs of SRS come from, whether there are tax incentives that the facilities get for legit purposes that they used to help fund SRS, the long term mental and health effects that it may have down the line that the person gets taxpayer funded assistance with, that is a direct result of having had SRS or if they try to reverse it. A minor issue, part of the overall mix.

Because of the newness of SRS and the infrequency, the idea that great measures are always taken is way too pie in the sky. Even wiki notes that some therapists believe SRS is the only way to go....what!?! How would they know this? I suppose if they refer to a clinic and the procedure is $40K, I could believe that too.

Great caution should be taken with something so outright dangerous as elective surgeries, entirely or nearly irreversible, lifelong hormone replacement/changes, and the social impact of gender transformation, the effect on sex life, that is largely based on pseudo-science, new pseudo-science at this point, in an area that can be exploited by practitioners for profit, etc. If you don't fairly represent that side as well, you do society a disservice IMO. Youth turn to all sorts of things they just know are right or necessary, adding this to the mix is worrisome. How many people get elective gastric bypass surgery and go through those hoops that claim they can't lose weight by eating fewer calories, and that they will stick to the plans, etc., and probably 90% of them are 100% full of ****? (family first hand here, I sympathize personally.....I'm being tough).

Acceptance of transgender is not the issue at all, it bothers be in no practical way. It's much more complicated than that. And while I think it should not be prohibited, given all of the above demands serious restrictions be placed on the practice to help even those who claim to *really need it*, and the therapists who will basically back up whatever their patient wants (what sort of profession is that??).
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. You seemed to be making the case that "gender" is largely a mental construct, and that the legal field (along with the medical field and "science") recognizes this to be true.
My point is that the law often suggests otherwise. It may recognize that something called "gender identity disorder" or "gender dysphoria" exists, but as to what actually determines gender, the law largely relies on physical characteristics. From a legal standpoint, gender is rarely defined by what’s in a person’s head, it’s defined by what’s in a person’s pants.

In fact it is you who has constantly misunderstood or misread what I have have typed. Now I have said it is both. I have said this throughout the thread where I have posted. The debate is with a person who denies it is mental at all and is stating it is purely physical. You may want to read my posts and see exactly what I have been saying before makes erroneous statements about what I have said and what i have not said. Gender may wrongly be defined by what is in a persons pants. This is wrong it is a combination between mind and body. If it were solely a physical problem there would be no need of therapy to have the situation fixed. You obviously read like zero of what i have posted as i have used the term gender dysphoria many times already. Try catching up before posting so far you have omitted half of what i stated and added to the half you decided to misquote or misunderstand.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Stating psychology in general, but worse in a "field" that is very new and has very little in the way of research, as leading to such NECESSARY conclusions is inappropriate. This goes for any topic, not just transgender, be advised. You have no idea where the costs of SRS come from, whether there are tax incentives that the facilities get for legit purposes that they used to help fund SRS, the long term mental and health effects that it may have down the line that the person gets taxpayer funded assistance with, that is a direct result of having had SRS or if they try to reverse it. A minor issue, part of the overall mix.

Because of the newness of SRS and the infrequency, the idea that great measures are always taken is way too pie in the sky. Even wiki notes that some therapists believe SRS is the only way to go....what!?! How would they know this? I suppose if they refer to a clinic and the procedure is $40K, I could believe that too.

Great caution should be taken with something so outright dangerous as elective surgeries, entirely or nearly irreversible, lifelong hormone replacement/changes, and the social impact of gender transformation, the effect on sex life, that is largely based on pseudo-science, new pseudo-science at this point, in an area that can be exploited by practitioners for profit, etc. If you don't fairly represent that side as well, you do society a disservice IMO. Youth turn to all sorts of things they just know are right or necessary, adding this to the mix is worrisome. How many people get elective gastric bypass surgery and go through those hoops that claim they can't lose weight by eating fewer calories, and that they will stick to the plans, etc., and probably 90% of them are 100% full of ****? (family first hand here, I sympathize personally.....I'm being tough).

Acceptance of transgender is not the issue at all, it bothers be in no practical way. It's much more complicated than that. And while I think it should not be prohibited, given all of the above demands serious restrictions be placed on the practice to help even those who claim to *really need it*, and the therapists who will basically back up whatever their patient wants (what sort of profession is that??).

I really don't think I need be advised on anything in this topic from you who relates one case study to make a point when there are thousands upon thousands of cases already in the books that have been successful. Well when you come up with say a hundred cases studies of failure than perhaps you have a talking point. You have one and basing a debate on one case study doesn't cut it please be advised. You need to have more behind you than one case. Well lets see the data to prove beyond this one case where the success rate is so poor. Then i may give even a modicum of credence to your concerns. I bet if i look even a little bit i can find tens of thousands of cases where people have had surgery for cancer and died anyway. So tell me do you think people should have surgery for cancer.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Now I have said it is both. I have said this throughout the thread where I have posted. The debate is with a person who denies it is mental at all and is stating it is purely physical. You may want to read my posts and see exactly what I have been saying before makes erroneous statements about what I have said and what i have not said.
Don't know where you're getting this - I've been quite conscientious of the fact that you recognize both mental and physical components and made sure to reflect that in what I posted. I did not claim that you said "gender is a mental construct," I said that you "seemed to be making the case that it is largely" a mental construct. That was based on something you said earlier:

"Consider that most of our sexuality is mental and not physical at all. You disregard the greater portion of human sexuality in your discussion of gender."

Gender may wrongly be defined by what is in a persons pants. This is wrong it is a combination between mind and body. If it were solely a physical problem there would be no need of therapy to have the situation fixed.
Again, I did not talk in absolutes as you claim - I was actually very careful not to do so. I said that the law "largely relies on physical characteristics" and "rarely relies on what's in the head."

I was basically pointing out that with respect to gender, the law is more concerned with physical attributes than mental attributes, which was sort of the flip side of what I thought you were saying earlier - that gender has more to do with the mental than the physical. And even there I qualified my interpretation by saying "perhaps I misunderstood you."

Sheesh.

You obviously read like zero of what i have posted as i have used the term gender dysphoria many times already.
...quite the contrary, I know very well that you used the term because it's the only reason I brought it up.

Try catching up before posting so far you have omitted half of what i stated and added to the half you decided to misquote or misunderstand.
:stars:
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

So you agree it is switching, which means you were in fact one before. So it's not natural.

What does it matter if its natural?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Let me ask you this, is there a difference between a transgender, and a transexual? If so, can you explain?

Transgender is an umbrella term used to describe someone who isnt part of the gender norm like someone who is androgynous or gender queer or even transsexuals. A transsexual is someone who feels like they were born the wrong sex.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Actually truth according to the psychiatric, medical, and the legal field. Since it is agreed upon that sexual dysphoria is real by both ends of the medical field and a person who has the procedure can get married as the new gender i guess the answer would be pretty much everyone. The only people who seem to decent would be those who exhibit a gender bias.

Someone who is a Christian and knows what God says in the bible knows this would be classified as a perversion, like being queer.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Someone who is a Christian and knows what God says in the bible knows this would be classified as a perversion, like being queer.
I am still trying to figure out what mythology has to do with this Navy Seal?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Transgender is an umbrella term used to describe someone who isnt part of the gender norm like someone who is androgynous or gender queer or even transsexuals. A transsexual is someone who feels like they were born the wrong sex.

Feels like they were born of the wrong sex. People do realize that feelings don't equate facts right?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I am still trying to figure out what mythology has to do with this Navy Seal?

The only mythology I see is when a man wants to emasculate himself to be what he is not.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

The only mythology I see is when a man wants to emasculate himself to be what he is not.
Just because the body looks male does not make her a male. If the mind is female than she is female and those who would oppose this do not understand the nature of gender or sexuality.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Just because the body looks male does not make her a male. If the mind is female than she is female and those who would oppose this do not understand the nature of gender or sexuality.

Those who agree don't understand nature and bodily functions.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Feels like they were born of the wrong sex. People do realize that feelings don't equate facts right?
The fact is this woman now has a body which matches her mental makeup. This is the fact and it is wonderful this can be done now. The medical field has advanced in this a great deal since 1952. MtF is far better at this point than FtM but this is advancing considerably.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Just because the body looks male does not make her a male. If the mind is female than she is female and those who would oppose this do not understand the nature of gender or sexuality.

What if "in the mind" of this guy he is a Chevrolet, should he be given license plates to wear around his neck?

This is one mixed-up guy who has chosen to live in the sewer with the rest of the degenerate sodomites, simple as that. And now, he is upset because everybody doesn't celebrate his new found freedom.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Those who agree don't understand nature and bodily functions.
This is a child's argument you use and you have yet to set out any proof that you are correct. I have given much in the way of explanation. You still give no basis for your claims. When you are able to debate than we will.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

This is a child's argument you use and you have yet to set out any proof that you are correct. I have given much in the way of explanation. You still give no basis for your claims. When you are able to debate than we will.

You also haven't answered my question. Let me post it again.

You say the switch is not something that just happens. Are you saying that all transexuals go through a process to prove that they are really the opposite sex, and they can't just go in and pay for an operation?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

What if "in the mind" of this guy he is a Chevrolet, should he be given license plates to wear around his neck?

This is one mixed-up guy who has chosen to live in the sewer with the rest of the degenerate sodomites, simple as that. And now, he is upset because everybody doesn't celebrate his new found freedom.
I have seem many silly responses on this thread and yet i have seen no opposition debate worth the time to respond to. This woman is not mixed up at all. Gender dysphoria is evident in youth long before puberty. There is no mix up about this at all. You follow societies misunderstanding and view of gender. You have no information to support your viewpoint like daivdtaylorjr. Neither of you have supported any claim about why gender dysphoria is not a clinical problem.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

You also haven't answered my question. Let me post it again.

You say the switch is not something that just happens. Are you saying that all transexuals go through a process to prove that they are really the opposite sex, and they can't just go in and pay for an operation?
Yes they must go through this process to have a legally and medically acceptable SRS. I am sure there may well be back street changes which will never be recognized by legal or medical standards. So no you just can't walk in to a medical facility and pay and have this done. It must be approved before any surgeon will do the procedure.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I have seem many silly responses on this thread and yet i have seen no opposition debate worth the time to respond to. This woman is not mixed up at all. Gender dysphoria is evident in youth long before puberty. There is no mix up about this at all. You follow societies misunderstanding and view of gender. You have no information to support your viewpoint like daivdtaylorjr. Neither of you have supported any claim about why gender dysphoria is not a clinical problem.

I never said it wasn't a clincial problem. They do belong in a clinic, they need psyciatric help to let them know they are confused and need to accept their body and understand they are what they are.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Yes they must go through this process to have a legally and medically acceptable SRS. I am sure there may well be back street changes which will never be recognized by legal or medical standards. So no you just can't walk in to a medical facility and pay and have this done. It must be approved before any surgeon will do the procedure.

Just like all abortions are done by the book, doubtful.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Just like all abortions are done by the book, doubtful.
You really do not read my posts. I said there were probably so back street surgeries did I not. I also said that these would not meet the standards to have birth certificates changed or be accepted by the standards. To have this done and be able to make all the paperwork changes there is a procedure. If it is done the correct way you can not just walk into some facility and have this type of surgery.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

You really do not read my posts. I said there were probably so back street surgeries did I not. I also said that these would not meet the standards to have birth certificates changed or be accepted by the standards. To have this done and be able to make all the paperwork changes there is a procedure. If it is done the correct way you can not just walk into some facility and have this type of surgery.

How many people would you say have this psycological problem?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I never said it wasn't a clinical problem. They do belong in a clinic, they need psychiatric help to let them know they are confused and need to accept their body and understand they are what they are.
They are getting help for the dysphoria by having SRS. You might want to read up before making wrong statements. Dysphoria is listed as a valid problem or illness so to speak just as cancer is and surgery can make both better.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

They are getting help for the dysphoria by having SRS. You might want to read up before making wrong statements. Dysphoria is listed as a valid problem or illness so to speak just as cancer is and surgery can make both better.

And do you have stats to backup that these people's lives are better and the Dysphoria is relaxed after the surgery?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

How many people would you say have this psycological problem?
I would say the percentage is really low maybe .5% or lower. Lesbians and gays make up only 3 to 4 % of the global population. Transgender people make up far less than this. I will say this many who want such surgery are never able to have it because they are not truly TG. They want the surgery for other reasons and are not valid. There are people who want limbs removed as well just for the heck of it. The medical field has to screen all elective surgeries. The process is screening is far different for may of these. Plastic surgery for facial changes and or augmentation of the breasts is not nearly as stringent as SRS. There is a process before a person can get hormone blockers and HRT. Again I say that some may well be done illegally there may well be Doctors who will do late term abortions and assisted suicides as well.
 
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