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Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181, 607]

Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

And you certainly don't tell me what to think.

I'm just grabbing this quote to address you. I understand what you're saying. I just think that if it were you, your children and your spouse, as an example -- and your husband decided he needed to change genders to survive, (which is true in many cases, I think) that you would put the interests of your children ahead of anything else and present it to them in a way that would help them understand.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

This is pure dishonesty. I am absolutely disgusted and can't even believe it.

This topic is filled with dishonesty.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I'm just grabbing this quote to address you. I understand what you're saying. I just think that if it were you, your children and your spouse, as an example -- and your husband decided he needed to change genders to survive, (which is true in many cases, I think) that you would put the interests of your children ahead of anything else and present it to them in a way that would help them understand.

Look, I'd rather not talk to someone who would accuse me of being a bigot. Kay?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

I'm just grabbing this quote to address you. I understand what you're saying. I just think that if it were you, your children and your spouse, as an example -- and your husband decided he needed to change genders to survive, (which is true in many cases, I think) that you would put the interests of your children ahead of anything else and present it to them in a way that would help them understand.

To survive? WTF?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

And you certainly don't tell me what to think.
Do you integrate anything that anyone says to you? So many people have patiently explained to you your misconceptions about this topic. CC even posted some of the most lengthy and detailed explanations of the issues and he literally treats trans people. You have a wealth of information in this thread and it seems like you haven't taken any of it in. Come on.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Kids are not tormented in school because of divorce and injury. This guy is putting his kids through hell so that he can be a woman. It's selfish. Even if it isn't a guarantee that they will go through hell, taking that risk is clearly selfish. .

I agree with you that it is selfish.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

To survive? WTF?

And they say they don't suffer from psychiatric disorder. :roll:
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Why are still quoting me. You think I'm a bigot.

I do think you're over reacting. Nit really addressing the differing opinions rationally. Maggie has been particularly reasonable. Life is messy and always has been. You can't protect kids from everything, and honesty (and being who you re is honest) I believe is important. Real important. The child is better off to weather a storm with a parent who loves them, no matter how imperfect the parent, than to pretend to be something your not and letting that sadness bled into their relationship.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

To survive? WTF?

Oh, for heaven's sake. Imagine you have the body of woman. How long would you want to live inside it. And don't be a smart ass. :rofl
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

And they say they don't suffer from psychiatric disorder. :roll:

I'm guessing the dude is going to off himself if he doesn't get it done right now! Seriously, if that is his mindset there is no doubt he does have problems.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

But, you can't know. :coffeepap

Judging by how I was back then I can be pretty sure though.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Look, I'd rather not talk to someone who would accuse me of being a bigot. Kay?

Okay, there's something wrong with you on this topic, Chris. I liked a post because most of it spoke to me. If you can't carry on a sensible conversation on this topic and understand that maybe, just maybe, you aren't looking at it as you would if it really happened to you and your family? Fine. And it's K. Not Kay.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Judging by how I was back then I can be pretty sure though.

You could be wrong, depending on how it was done. After all, I you love the person and not trappings, you would try to understand, wouldn't you?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

And you certainly don't tell me what to think.
Let me try a different approach:

I'm in my mid 20s and my mother is - as one would expect - a woman. She has been - as one would also expect - a woman for my entire life. If she told me today that she were a man and that she was going to transition, I cannot imagine thinking of myself as the victim in that story. I would be confused and it would take a while for me to wrap my head around it, but ultimately I would support my mom because she is my mother. She's taken care of me (still does and always will no matter how old I get). She loves me. She's my ****ing mother. The idea that I would make her transition about ME is sickening. I imagine most people - barring those with horrible parents - feel that way. Wouldn't you? If someone you loved to death said that they had been struggling with this their entire lives, would you make it about you or would you support them?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

This thoughtless asshole isn't the victim here. His FAMILY is HIS victim. What a jerk!

She isnt a thoughtless asshole. Your making an assumption that her family is devastated by her transition based off of no information at all.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Let me try a different approach:

I'm in my mid 20s and my mother is - as one would expect - a woman. She has been - as one would also expect - a woman for my entire life. If she told me today that she were a man and that she was going to transition, I cannot imagine thinking of myself as the victim in that story. I would be confused and it would take a while for me to wrap my head around it, but ultimately I would support my mom because she is my mother. She's taken care of me (still does and always will no matter how old I get). She loves me. She's my ****ing mother. The idea that I would make her transition about ME is sickening. I imagine most people - barring those with horrible parents - feel that way. Wouldn't you? If someone you loved to death said that they had been struggling with this their entire lives, would you make it about you or would you support them?

Excellent analogy. Sometimes, it's necessary to "make it real."
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

She isnt a thoughtless asshole. Your making an assumption that her family is devastated by her transition based off of no information at all.

She is putting her thoughts, feelings, and bias's onto other people in order to confirm to her world view. She has no desire to look at this issue in any other way. Sad really.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

She is putting her thoughts, feelings, and bias's onto other people in order to confirm to her world view. She has no desire to look at this issue in any other way. Sad really.

Why do you think the SEAL felt it necessary to take this public rather than handling the matter privately?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Why do you think the SEAL felt it necessary to take this public rather than handling the matter privately?

Things can be made public in lieu of a person's will for privacy.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Their genitals are genuine. And, as I have said, I believe that they have partially altered their sex.
Genuine imitations.
If you have a better source than actual surgeons with medical knowledge who perform SRS, then provide it.


Okay, provide a source. I've provided a credible source - the actual surgeons with medical knowledge who perform SRS. Your turn.
So the qualification is among surgeons who do SRS? Seems biased, and the fact that you quoted doctors advertising their services is only laughable as a debate tactic. Let's consult a medical dictionary.
1. The part of the genital canal in the female, extending between the cervix of the uterus and the vestibule; it is an organ of copulation that receives the penis during sexual intercourse.
Vagina -- Medical Definition

The source quoted is from the Stedman's Medical Dictionary. A vagina could be any shealthlike structure, but as far as human anatomy and medical definitions go it is as described, the structure between the cervix of the uterus and vestibule (vulva). There is no uterus in a MTF transsexual and no true cervix. It's essentially a created space to appear like a vagina but is not a proper vagina as far as medical definitions go.
It's not that I say sex should be defined by more than DNA. It's that sex is defined by more than DNA.
And as shown a MTF transsexual is a male in sex, but may be a female in gender according to the ethics of some people. The DNA is male, the anatomical structures are formed from existing male body parts and there is no female reproductive function or female sex organs. From a scientific perspective I think it's absurd to say, biologically, that an XY individual that had a vaginoplasty/labiaplasty done a woman by sex even though they have no internal sex organs and unnatural vagina when their DNA also says otherwise, especially considering that they were born male and had aesthetic surgery done to change appearances. Such an argument may fly with some in the gender definition which is ethical, but scientifically you are incorrect from a biological perspective.
Not every person who is born a woman or a man is born with full, functioning genitalia. Even further, some men and women get their parts of their genitalia removed over their lifetimes for medical or other reasons. Their penises and vaginas are still "real." As a result, full, functioning genitalia are not a requirement of a person having "real" genitalia. Your argument is erroneous.

Also, provide a source that validates your disagreement with surgeons who actually perform the surgery.

Notice I never said that people who are infertile due to a disease do not have "real" genitalia. I predicted that you would use this argument (which doesn't address mine). Re-read what I said. I stated that their sexual organs and reproductive function were removed/destroyed. Their infertility is not due to a disease, it's due to an unnatural intervention that has left them without sexual reproductive organs. A "real" penis or vagina is one that developed naturally, an XX woman who was born infertile still has real female organs, they just have a disease rendering them non-functional.

I do not disagree that someone should be allowed to have the surgery. I disagree with the idea that biologically the surgery changes someone's sex.

Correct.

If reproductive function is the qualification for "real" genitalia, then infertile or impotent men and women don't have "real" genitalia. That argument is absurd. Therefore, your argument is absurd.

See above.
I have specifically stated that sex includes DNA which means that I've done the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. How dishonest. Your problem is that I'm not paying exclusive attention to genetics and that I'm not taking your word over the word surgeons who actually perform SRS. But like I said, if you have a better source than the actual surgeons who perform SRS, show me.
So then were do genetics play a role? Is a man that has a vaginoplasty/labiaplasty now female by their biological sex? Your argument relies on aesthetics, how do you factor in DNA at all?
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

And they say they don't suffer from psychiatric disorder. :roll:

A disorder that makes them depressed? Yes. A disorder that makes them feel like the opposite sex? No.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

It's possible she didn't want it public, but it just happened. It's a pretty big deal, apparently. :shrug:

As far as the children, well I think children are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for. It may **** with their heads for a while, but so would a death. So would a parent going to prison. So would finding out that your mom is a crack whore.
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

It's possible she didn't want it public, but it just happened. It's a pretty big deal, apparently. :shrug:

As far as the children, well I think children are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for. It may **** with their heads for a while, but so would a death. So would a parent going to prison. So would finding out that your mom is a crack whore.

She wrote a frickin' biography. It appears that it didn't "just happen"...
 
Re: Transgender Navy SEAL 'Warrior Princess' Comes Out[W:181]

Things can be made public in lieu of a person's will for privacy.

Well shes writing a book about her experiences and did an interview with Anderson Cooper so she probably doesnt care too much about her privacy.
 
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