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Nelson Mandela admitted to hospital in 'serious condition' [W:47:W:117]

a777pilot said:
I've been to many countries but not South Africa. I do not have to go there to understand what is going on there.
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No but you could at least do some proper research.
 
Mandela is a great man, who has suffered more than any of us can imagine and helped end Apartheid. It's sad that he is so old and frail now, and I too believe it's unlikely he will leave the hospital this time. The world is better because he was a part of it.
 
Higgins86 said:
Its ironic that right wing patriotic Americans would hate a man who rose up against colonial oppression just so his people could be free to vote and be represented in gov.
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A couple of individuals in this thread, not all of whom appear to be "right-wing", do not represent millions of other "right wing patriotic Americans". And wolfie, whose post #56 was also rather hateful, is British, not American. Generalizing people by country or political ideology is usually a bad idea.
 
Jetboogieman said:
You've never been there, you have absolutely no idea what the **** you're talking about.
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Jet, ignore the ahole ... for now let's wish Mr. Mandela the best and if we lose him, to give his family our best wishes ... an extraordinary man and we should all feel honored to have inhabited the earth at the same time and to have witnessed what he and so many others did to end apartheid ... ignore the bigots my friend ... take comfort in knowing that their hate is eating away at their souls ...
 
I'm sure those that are so upset over the demise of another racist cried when Mao died too. Maybe even OBL's departure to his 72 virgins.


What Mao, OBL and Mandela have in common are they are not white, they are anti-American, anti-Christianity....possibly even Mandela.
 
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DiAnna said:
A couple of individuals in this thread, not all of whom appear to be "right-wing", do not represent millions of other "right wing patriotic Americans". And wolfie, whose post #56 was also rather hateful, is British, not American. Generalizing people by country or political ideology is usually a bad idea.
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didn't say they did represented all right wing Americans, obviously I was talking about the posters in this thread but as usual you jump down my throat.
 
Higgins86 said:
didn't say they did represented all right wing Americans, obviously I was talking about the posters in this thread but as usual you jump down my throat.
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"As usual?" I don't think I've responded to you upstairs more than two or three times in the past year. :lol:
 
DiAnna said:
"As usual?" I don't think I've responded to you upstairs more than two or three times in the past year. :lol:
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well u obviously made an impression lol
 
0bserver92 said:
South Africa is one of the countries I want to live in too bad but after Mandela the ANC went downhill into the depths of corruption.
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Have you ever been to South Africa ? I don't think you would be a happy camper.
It's a basket case today. The middle class have to live behind walled communities that are guarded by armed mercenaries. You will never see a car on the streets that has a sun roof that is open or unlocked car doors. Don't even want to touch on the corruption.

South Africa was one of those battles we lost during the Cold War, the Communist won that one.
 
APACHERAT said:
Have you ever been to South Africa ? I don't think you would be a happy camper.
It's a basket case today. The middle class have to live behind walled communities that are guarded by armed mercenaries. You will never see a car on the streets that has a sun roof that is open or unlocked car doors. Don't even want to touch on the corruption.

South Africa was one of those battles we lost during the Cold War, the Communist won that one.
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South Africa created it's own problems: It kept extremely restrictive laws against immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe while exploiting the black population as cheap labor. Someone should have told them that emulating colonial Haiti was a recipe for disaster..................
 
Bonzai said:
South Africa created it's own problems: It kept extremely restrictive laws against immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe while exploiting the black population as cheap labor. Someone should have told them that emulating colonial Haiti was a recipe for disaster..................
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That's the argument socialist always use when their policies fail, they blame the past.

South Africa started to become a basket case when the ANC gained power.

We see the same thing today in America when Obama's policies failed, he blamed Bush.
 
APACHERAT said:
That's the argument socialist always use when their policies fail, they blame the past.

South Africa started to become a basket case when the ANC gained power.

We see the same thing today in America when Obama's policies failed, he blamed Bush.
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South Africa started falling apart as soon as it became a country of a small white minority ruling over a massive population of cheap black labor. In fact, it was never really a country, more like a supersized colonial construct........................
 
Bonzai said:
South Africa started falling apart as soon as it became a country of a small white minority ruling over a massive population of cheap black labor. In fact, it was never really a country, more like a supersized colonial construct........................
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Your wrong Bonzai. Your talking about a place and people you have no knowledge of or have never visited.

South Africa like Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) are failed socialist states.
 
apdst said:
Hitler defeated Jewish oppression. I guess that was a good thing, too.
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What's the longest you've ever gone making posts without pulling out the Godwin card?
 
Bonzai said:
South Africa started falling apart as soon as it became a country of a small white minority ruling over a massive population of cheap black labor. In fact, it was never really a country, more like a supersized colonial construct........................
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Totally.

Any nation that can only survive by maintaining a racist, colonialist, oppressive simply regime isn't meant to be.
 
a777pilot said:
I've been to many countries but not South Africa. I do not have to go there to understand what is going on there.
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Other than bringing back the Apartheid regime, what do you think SA should do to stabilize and improve itself?
 
a777pilot said:
I did.

He murdered people and he is a racist. He destroyed the country of South Africa.
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The African National Congress, of which Madela was a key leader, did in fact engage in and direct acts of violence in the struggle to end apartheid. I did not know this until relatively recently and assumed they were like the US Civil Rights Movement that used non-violent civil disobedience to achieve its goals. I do not support violence but people there compare it to the US War of Independence and the Civil War, where violence was also used.

I disagree however with your characterization that he's racist. Here's an excerpt from the speech he made before being sent to prison for going on 30 years:


“During my lifetime I have dedicated myself to this struggle of the African people. I have fought against white domination, and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.”
http://www.nelsonmandela.org/news/entry/i-am-prepared-to-die
 
APACHERAT said:
Have you ever been to South Africa ? I don't think you would be a happy camper.
It's a basket case today. The middle class have to live behind walled communities that are guarded by armed mercenaries. You will never see a car on the streets that has a sun roof that is open or unlocked car doors. Don't even want to touch on the corruption.

South Africa was one of those battles we lost during the Cold War, the Communist won that one.
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I have never been but I do know some White South Africans. They are Capetonians and they it's fine living in South Africa especially the Western Cape. You can live in a walled community most of them actually do not. I never see an unlocked car around here in my some rural town either. You actually won South Africa believe it or not, the Communists were forced to go underground and only re-emerge with the more moderate of the left. For a communist country you sure can live a life of luxury without having connection with the ANC there are multimillion US dollar homes all around South Africa owned by big CEOs (almost all white) and celebrities (seem to be mostly white) you knwo the same type of people you would find in North America. Income tax is also fairly low.
 
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a777pilot said:
Then why is the country of South Africa such a disaster?
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Well, as far as Africa goes, it's in better shape than any other African country. IMHO here are the problems:

1. Too soft on crime. During the apartheid era law enforcement was seen as the enforcers of racist rule. Post apartheid IMHO efforts were made to make SA's policing agencies less authoritarian....to a fault.

2. Open borders to all sub-Saharan Africa. During apartheid, any South African wanting to leave the country often fleeing for their lives after being involved in efforts to overthrow the government, were given immediate political refugee status by the other African countries. When the new SA government came to power, they felt is was only right to allow any African to move to SA without restriction. I think it's even in their constitution. Most of their immigrants are in severe poverty seeking a better standard of living. Many are criminals. There is presently a strong anti-immigrant sentiment in SA with major government PR efforts to discourage xenophobia. Much if not most of the anti-social behavior in South Africa is carried out by non-south African immigrants.

3. People forced into their own primitive areas during apartheid simply were never properly socialized. Some still have a tribal warrior mentality due to never being allowed to experience any other life then instantly were pushed into a first world culture and didn't know how to act. It is improving however.

4. As we've learned so well in America, you can and should remove the statutory implements of racism but it takes time for people to remove racist attitudes from their minds. My experience has been South Africans can talk a good PC game when it comes to sounding colorblind but talk with them in depth and I've never encountered more severe racist attitudes in my life from all of the "rainbow" groups; white, black and Indian; each with its own particular nuances and ways they express it. All however seem to view Mandela as the revered father of their country who is above race. It's really impressive to see. At some point you'll see his funeral on TV. I'm willing to bet money people there of all races will be expressing sincere sorrow with some of the move moving eulogies we've ever seen.
 
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0bserver92 said:
I have never been but I do know some White South Africans. They are Capetonians and they it's fine living in South Africa especially the Western Cape. You can live in a walled community most of them actually do not. I never see an unlocked car around here in my some rural town either. You actually won South Africa believe it or not, the Communists were forced to go underground and only re-emerge with the more moderate of the left. For a communist country you sure can live a life of luxury without having connection with the ANC there are multimillion US dollar homes all around South Africa owned by big CEOs (almost all white) and celebrities (seem to be mostly white) you knwo the same type of people you would find in North America. Income tax is also fairly low.
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Something you said is exactly what happened in America in the early 70's. >"the Communists were forced to go underground and only re-emerge with the more moderate of the left."< In America those Marxist, the "New Left", the fringe of the left came under the Democrat Party and hid behind the label of calling themselves liberal and later on some calling themselves progressives. They are neither, just hiding behinde labels.

But I digress.
South Africa is a beautiful country. Those white South Africans call themselfs and are known as Afrikanans. And they love their country.
There are enclaves with in South Africa's cities that are upper class and middle class that are safe. And today there are black middle class neighborhoods. South Africa has a extremely high crime rate, but it's mostly black on black crime. They don't #### with the Afrikanans, they are too well armed. And the corruption of the NAC puts Mexico to shame.

Why doesn't the American MSM report on what's been going on in South Africa ? Probably because back in the 1980's it was the liberals in America who supported the Soviet Union and the ANC and helped put the socialist terrorist in power. Come to think of it, in Barack Obama's book, "Dreams From My Father" Obama mentions being part of the radical left during the 80's and being behind supporting the communist terrorist in South Africa.

I have a good story to tell of my own experiances in Rohdesia and South Africa, but don't really want to get in to it right now. Has to do with muders and rapes by communist terrorist of someone I really loved.

Excerpts from the CSM:

>" “Crime is high [in South Africa] but the reputation for crime is much higher,” says Matthew McKeever, an associate professor of sociology at Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley, Ma. who studies social inequality in southern Africa. “People think of it as much more violent than it really is.”

That widespread belief is in part a legacy of the country’s bumpy transition to democracy, which saw an explosion in violence across the country in the late 1980s and early 1990s. South Africa’s murder rate in 1995, the year after Nelson Mandela assumed the presidency, was 64.9 per 100,000 – nearly twice its current figure and thirteen times the present rate in the United States.

There remains at least one category of violent crime, however, where South Africa is still a global frontrunner: rape. There were 64,000 reported cases of rape last year, which experts say is likely a fraction of the true total. In one 2010 government survey, one in three South African men questioned admitted to raping at least one woman in his lifetime and one in four women said she had been the victim of a rape...

Are things getting any better?

That depends who you ask. Those with means in South Africa can now do a great deal to buy their safety. The crime wave of the 1980s and ‘90s gave rise to a kind of security industrial complex in the country – creating a voracious demand for the high tech alarms, security systems, and electrified fences that are now second nature to wealthy South Africans of all colors.

As of 2011, there were more than 400,000 private security guards in South Africa, compared with just over 200,000 police officers, and one in 14 newly created jobs in the country is for a security guard. It is telling that when Pistorius made his first call for help on the morning Steenkamp died, it was not to the police, but to the security guards in his housing complex."<
Briefing: How violent is South Africa? - CSMonitor.com
 
APACHERAT said:
Your wrong Bonzai. Your talking about a place and people you have no knowledge of or have never visited.

South Africa like Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) are failed socialist states.
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:dohPlease go more in depth..
 
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