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Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

Threegoofs said:
While I'm sure you are sure of this, it would be helpful to see actual facts, rather than your possibly uninformed thoughts.
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"Possibly uninformed"? That means he's possibly informed, and most agree with his assessment.
 
My beef with this, as with ALL such legislation, is that its a HUGE bill, and our Representatives did not read it before voting on it.
There are many such laws that have not been properly read & understood before being made law.
WE THE PEOPLE must demand CHANGE that is REAL CHANGE not the fake change that our politicians are selling.
The practice of "log-rolling" in Congress must stop!
 
Grant said:
"Possibly uninformed"? That means he's possibly informed, and most agree with his assessment.
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He is possibly informed. But I bet his assessment can't be backed up by any nonpartisan groups.

But I'm looking forward to being informed about that.
 
Threegoofs said:
He is possibly informed. But I bet his assessment can't be backed up by any nonpartisan groups.

But I'm looking forward to being informed about that.
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Anyone familiar with the facts has to be partisan. To not be partisan is to not know what's going on but as the facts are becoming known by people who have an interest in the future of their country then naturally, as the topic of this thread indicates, people are moving against it.
 
Menard_K said:
My beef with this, as with ALL such legislation, is that its a HUGE bill, and our Representatives did not read it before voting on it.
There are many such laws that have not been properly read & understood before being made law.
WE THE PEOPLE must demand CHANGE that is REAL CHANGE not the fake change that our politicians are selling.
The practice of "log-rolling" in Congress must stop!
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Passing a bill without knowing what's in it is the real change. I'm feel certain this has ever happened before.
 
Grant said:
Passing a bill without knowing what's in it is the real change. I'm feel certain this has ever happened before.
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Never happened before .... you are putting me on, right?

It has been happening a LOT probably at least since the Regan administration.
There have been bills too big for Congress to read the whole thing and they
are simply given the chapter & verse for the parts that may be beneficial to
their districts but as a whole bill, nobody except the lawyers who wrote it
know the whole thing.
 
Menard_K said:
Never happened before .... you are putting me on, right?

It has been happening a LOT probably at least since the Regan administration.
There have been bills too big for Congress to read the whole thing and they
are simply given the chapter & verse for the parts that may be beneficial to
their districts but as a whole bill, nobody except the lawyers who wrote it
know the whole thing.
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You may be right, of course, but do you have an example?
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Not surprising. People are now realizing the truth that ObamaCare isn't what they said it was.
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How could anyone think a government program would do what the government says it will do? It has never happened in my lifetime. Obamacare is exactly what I thought it would be - another incompetent government mess.
 
TwEnTY-SiX said:
This may very well be the outcome of this law, but at the same time I have to hope that it works out. As much as you think you have choice over your own healthcare, you do not have nearly as much. When you are prescribed a medication it is often decided based on which drug was most successfully marketed to your physician or his/her clinic, not the best or most effective, and also on which your insurance company will choose to cover.

One of my favorite examples of our current health care system is about the kid who needed Tamiflu, but the pharmacy had none on hand and so they had to compound it themselves. When the insurance company denied the request for coverage for a popular medicine that everyone supposedly covers, the pharmacist called and discovered that the NDC of the purified water in the recipe was the problem and they would do nothing about it. And so the insurance company expected the family to pay full price because they didn't cover the water.

Our healthcare has been corrupted by for-profit principles, and I don't see how any of us, regardless of how much choice we might think we have, will have the best possible care until healthcare becomes non-profit. Unfortunately the only solution besides government intervention is that all healthcare related industries suddenly stop caring about their stock values and prioritize patient care above all else.
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And what do you do for a living? I only ask because I want to understand how you are able to sustain it without turning a profit.
 
Blue_State said:
What is the Patriot Act? Supposedly Jim McDermott alleged no senator had read the bill before passing it.
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That's alleged. The massive Health Care bill being passed without anyone reading it is not alleged. is not alleged. It is fact.

But even if it was true, are you in favor of elected members of government passing laws without understanding them first?
 
Grant said:
That's alleged. The massive Health Care bill being passed without anyone reading it is not alleged. is not alleged. It is fact.

But even if it was true, are you in favor of elected members of government passing laws without understanding them first?
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Absolutely not Grant. Our representatives have done the biggest disservice to us by voting party lines and not what their constituents want or need. They should know what they are passing.

I wrote "supposedly". I realize that it is alleged.
 
Blue_State said:
Absolutely not Grant. Our representatives have done the biggest disservice to us by voting party lines and not what their constituents want or need. They should know what they are passing.

I wrote "supposedly". I realize that it is alleged.
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You're right. I had the wrong guy in mind who was making the claim that it was commonplace 'since Reagan'. Wasn't paying as much attention to the names as I should have. Sorry about that.
 
Grant said:
You may be right, of course, but do you have an example?
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How often has something attached to a bill not been seen? It is actually quite common. Just as many didn't read the NIE before Iraq, they often just get the gist of it and not a full reading.
 
Threegoofs said:
While I'm sure you are sure of this, it would be helpful to see actual facts, rather than your possibly uninformed thoughts.
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Sadly it is certainly true the misinformation is doing better in reaching the public than Obama's arguments in favor of it. I think these polls show that.
 
Boo Radley said:
How often has something attached to a bill not been seen? It is actually quite common. Just as many didn't read the NIE before Iraq, they often just get the gist of it and not a full reading.
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Which should be a big red flag. Clearly Congress is more interested in hiding things in massive bills that quickly voted on, rather than taking their time, debating, and getting things right the first time.

Maybe its a sign of the times, wherein there is a desire for instant gratification on all issues, problems, and actions. Slow and steady wins the race should be the path taken.
 
Boo Radley said:
How often has something attached to a bill not been seen? It is actually quite common. Just as many didn't read
the NIE before Iraq, they often just get the gist of it and not a full reading.
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Attached ??

It was the entire bill " that had to be passed before we know what was in it "

You realize if you have to lie and mislead to prove your argument you still have a crappy argument to return to.

And your Iraq desperation is absolutely irrelevent. Democrats in 1998, including Hillary and Bill Clinton knew he had WMD. So there shouldn't have been any surprise to anyone.

Do I need to post their quotes ?
 
Boo Radley said:
How often has something attached to a bill not been seen? It is actually quite common. Just as many didn't read the NIE before Iraq, they often just get the gist of it and not a full reading.
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That's a flawed system then. A system that's designed to make it very difficult to get things implemented, and to undo, would mean that we should minimize what we use that system for. Likewise, if what's getting passed in that system are things they don't know about as its pass, nothing critical should ever be in there. Add the two together, and you'd have to wonder why we even try to use such a system for anything important.
 
Boo Radley said:
How often has something attached to a bill not been seen? It is actually quite common. Just as many didn't read the NIE before Iraq, they often just get the gist of it and not a full reading.
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What are you saying? They didn't understand a bill that said they would be invading another country? You should name a few names here.
 
Mach said:
That's a flawed system then. A system that's designed to make it very difficult to get things implemented, and to undo, would mean that we should minimize what we use that system for. Likewise, if what's getting passed in that system are things they don't know about as its pass, nothing critical should ever be in there. Add the two together, and you'd have to wonder why we even try to use such a system for anything important.
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Or in many cases such as health care, abortion, and so on, leave it up to the individual States.
 
It's a law that primarily helps poor people and might cost the middle class a little more money in the short term. Of course it's going to be unpopular. Americans are, for the most part, pretty selfish people.
 
Paschendale said:
It's a law that primarily helps poor people and might cost the middle class a little more money in the short term. Of course it's going to be unpopular. Americans are, for the most part, pretty selfish people.
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Actually, no other group of people on the planet show as much compassion in the form of treasure and lives.

Interesting how that is lost on you.
 
Paschendale said:
It's a law that primarily helps poor people and might cost the middle class a little more money in the short term. Of course it's going to be unpopular. Americans are, for the most part, pretty selfish people.
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Do you have any stats to support that claim? I have this one. Americans Are Most Generous, Global Poll Finds - About Donors - The Chronicle of Philanthropy- Connecting the nonprofit world with news, jobs, and ideas

Just out of curiosity, where do you live? I've found that many Europeans are very poorly informed about the United States.
 
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