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Health care law's unpopularity reaches new highs

davidtaylorjr said:
Not surprising. People are now realizing the truth that ObamaCare isn't what they said it was.
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Well, we all know popular opinion is always right and well informed. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, we all know popular opinion is always right and well informed. :coffeepap
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They are very well informed when they have to pay higher for something that was supposed to cost less. Or loose the insurance they had that was promised they could keep. I would say the people are well informed.
 
Born Free said:
They are very well informed when they have to pay higher for something that was supposed to cost less. Or loose the insurance they had that was promised they could keep. I would say the people are well informed.
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You mean like we were before reform? Nothing new has actually happened.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, we all know popular opinion is always right and well informed. :coffeepap
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Yeah, so naturally it's A-OK for a legislature to enact legislation which it knows perfectly well the public doesn't want. That's democracy!
 
Born Free said:
They are very well informed when they have to pay higher for something that was supposed to cost less. Or loose the insurance they had that was promised they could keep. I would say the people are well informed.
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its not like the health care system was a paragon of excellence before reform. you can't undo medicare because it is a debt. not a financial debt but a debt to society.

how will you explain to the people promised the benefits of medicare that taking away the program and throwing the entire health care system to the wolfs known as the free market would benifit them?
 
wbcoleman said:
Yeah, so naturally it's A-OK for a legislature to enact legislation which it knows perfectly well the public doesn't want. That's democracy!
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Thats really not true. They wanted everything in the legislation other than paying for it. Dishonest folks pretend they know know what all the numbers show.
 
Boo Radley said:
Thats really not true. They wanted everything in the legislation other than paying for it. Dishonest folks pretend they know know what all the numbers show.
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The scheme nearly provoked riots during the summer of 2009, the people of Massachusetts [Massachusetts!] elected Scott Brown for the specific purpose of thwarting the scheme, and polling then, now, and every time period in between, shows majorities who want it repealed.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
its not like the health care system was a paragon of excellence before reform. you can't undo medicare because it is a debt. not a financial debt but a debt to society.

how will you explain to the people promised the benefits of medicare that taking away the program and throwing the entire health care system to the wolfs known as the free market would benifit them?
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How will you explain it to medicare recipients when the program goes under?
 
wbcoleman said:
The scheme nearly provoked riots during the summer of 2009, the people of Massachusetts [Massachusetts!] elected Scott Brown for the specific purpose of thwarting the scheme, and polling then, now, and every time period in between, shows majorities who want it repealed.
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People were also polled on the provisions. Overwhelmingly they supported them. It wasn't even close.

So, there is a disconnect, not to mention scare tactics and misinformation being thrown at them
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
its not like the health care system was a paragon of excellence before reform. you can't undo medicare because it is a debt. not a financial debt but a debt to society.

how will you explain to the people promised the benefits of medicare that taking away the program and throwing the entire health care system to the wolfs known as the free market would benifit them?
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The health care system HASN'T been reformed. Insurance, a method of payment, has been mandated. Nothing has changed with the healthcare system. Nothing has been done to curtail the expenses that drives insurance costs, no additional points of physical access have been created.

The insurance companies have been handed a captive income base. That's it, that is all that has been done.
 
GottaGo said:
The health care system HASN'T been reformed. Insurance, a method of payment, has been mandated. Nothing has changed with the healthcare system. Nothing has been done to curtail the expenses that drives insurance costs, no additional points of physical access have been created.

The insurance companies have been handed a captive income base. That's it, that is all that has been done.
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Actually, it has a bit. Look up ACOs. And the way Medicare (and by extension, private insurance) is switching from fee for service to pay for quality. It's a huge change, and it is already saving money.
 
GottaGo said:
The health care system HASN'T been reformed. Insurance, a method of payment, has been mandated. Nothing has changed with the healthcare system. Nothing has been done to curtail the expenses that drives insurance costs, no additional points of physical access have been created.

The insurance companies have been handed a captive income base. That's it, that is all that has been done.
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medical equipment is expensive. medical bills are expensive. malpractice insurance is expensive for doctors and they give mutiple tests to prevent being sold and the medical bills of those tests is expensive. insurance is expensive. all of this exists and that is the result of the free market.

people grow old, and people are more susceptable to sickness if they are elderly. easy pickings for the insurance industry
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
its not like the health care system was a paragon of excellence before reform. you can't undo medicare because it is a debt. not a financial debt but a debt to society.

how will you explain to the people promised the benefits of medicare that taking away the program and throwing the entire health care system to the wolfs known as the free market would benifit them?
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I love how liberals think, there is no end to the money supply, it's an endless pit of money. If we don't have it we borrow it and we keep borrowing it to pay for all these beloved entitlements, nanny state and freebies. Now what does a company do when it can't borrow any more to pay it's bills, it goes broke and all those promises made by that good old company STOPPED, ENDED, FINISHED. That's what happens.

How will I explain to the people promised the benefits, I would tell them that people before promised entitlements, nannies and freebies we can't AFFORD. People we are 17 trillion in debt and climbing by 1 trillion a yr and now people, how are you going to explain to your great grandchildren they have to pay back all that debt that we greedy entitlement, nanny and freebie takers took over the years for our own selfishness.

But liberals don't care about the next generation or the one after that, they just care about getting their mouth on a government tit to suck on.
 
Born Free said:
I love how liberals think, there is no end to the money supply, it's an endless pit of money. If we don't have it we borrow it and we keep borrowing it to pay for all these beloved entitlements, nanny state and freebies. Now what does a company do when it can't borrow any more to pay it's bills, it goes broke and all those promises made by that good old company STOPPED, ENDED, FINISHED. That's what happens.

How will I explain to the people promised the benefits, I would tell them that people before promised entitlements, nannies and freebies we can't AFFORD. People we are 17 trillion in debt and climbing by 1 trillion a yr and now people, how are you going to explain to your great grandchildren they have to pay back all that debt that we greedy entitlement, nanny and freebie takers took over the years for our own selfishness.

But liberals don't care about the next generation or the one after that, they just care about getting their mouth on a government tit to suck on.
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I don't believe anyone is arguing there is an endless money supply.
 
Born Free said:
Your right they are not arguing that point. They believe it, why argue about it.
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I don't think that's true either. I think it is just a stereotype used to avoid talking the issue.
 
Boo Radley said:
People were also polled on the provisions. Overwhelmingly they supported them. It wasn't even close.

So, there is a disconnect, not to mention scare tactics and misinformation being thrown at them
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Seriously, you are impressed by the fact that people like something for nothing?

The polling on the individual goodies is frivolous. The public rightly understands that the scheme as enacted is a disaster.
 
Born Free said:
I love how liberals think, there is no end to the money supply, it's an endless pit of money. If we don't have it we borrow it and we keep borrowing it to pay for all these beloved entitlements, nanny state and freebies. Now what does a company do when it can't borrow any more to pay it's bills, it goes broke and all those promises made by that good old company STOPPED, ENDED, FINISHED. That's what happens.

How will I explain to the people promised the benefits, I would tell them that people before promised entitlements, nannies and freebies we can't AFFORD. People we are 17 trillion in debt and climbing by 1 trillion a yr and now people, how are you going to explain to your great grandchildren they have to pay back all that debt that we greedy entitlement, nanny and freebie takers took over the years for our own selfishness.

But liberals don't care about the next generation or the one after that, they just care about getting their mouth on a government tit to suck on.
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"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]." -- attributed to Margaret Thatcher
 
wbcoleman said:
Seriously, you are impressed by the fact that people like something for nothing?

The polling on the individual goodies is frivolous. The public rightly understands that the scheme as enacted is a disaster.
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No. But to honestly evaluate where people actually stand, you have to include it. It is dishonest otherwise.

And know, the public knows the rhetoric, the misinformation, and fear the unknown. This is not unusual.
 
wbcoleman said:
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]." -- attributed to Margaret Thatcher
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Of course, we're not a socialist country. :shrug:
 
MaggieD said:
That approval rating is going to go up as soon as people understand how it's going to effect them. Our government has done a piss-poor job of bringin' it on home.
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Nah, it's ACTUALLY terrible.
 
MaggieD said:
When I see my mom's Medicare bills, and I see chest x-rays charged at $24 and read for $9 -- and then I see my own private healthcare insurance come through at $150 and $75? I'm pretty sure based on personal observation. Or an established Medicare patient's doctor being reimbursed just $20 for an office visit while my insurance company reimburses at $60? Same thing.

Table I: 2011 National Medicare Fee Schedule | American College of Rheumatology | ACR
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When you see the pool of potential doctors for your mom dry up and are forced to settle for long wait times for an assembly line clinic while your taxes run through the roof you will realize what a piece of garbage you have hung your hopes on.
 
Boo Radley said:
No. But to honestly evaluate where people actually stand, you have to include it. It is dishonest otherwise.

And know, the public knows the rhetoric, the misinformation, and fear the unknown. This is not unusual.
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The public did not want this at the time it was rammed down our throats. The Obama Administration [aka The Bully Pulpit] and the Democrats in Congress have had well over three years to sell this pig, but still no sale. You are refusing to acknowledge the obvious, this was a perversion of democratic government.
 
wbcoleman said:
The public did not want this at the time it was rammed down our throats. The Obama Administration [aka The Bully Pulpit] and the Democrats in Congress have had well over three years to sell this pig, but still no sale. You are refusing to acknowledge the obvious, this was a perversion of democratic government.
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No,it isn't. We don't directly vote on things. We elect representatives. If we don't like what they do, we elect new ones. How'd that election go?
 
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