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Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I'm talking specifically about general warrantless wiretapping. That can of worms was opened during the Bush era... in the name of protecting against terrorists. :roll:

Did the Bush Administration perform wholesale warrant-less wiretapping of entire telecom subscribers? If so, that would have been horrible too.

edit: And more to the point, this isn't warrant-less wiretapping, its data mining, and guess what? It was asinine then, and its asinine now.
 
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Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

IN all honestly, despite this being a blatant violation of the Constitution (supported, obviously by every right wing tard in Congress), I doubt Obama is the kind of dude to use the data for malicious purposes or even hunt down terrorists.

For starters, any terrorist worth his salt wouldn't be stupid enough to talk over a cell phone.

I believe that O is simply trying to play Chicago-style politics, i. e. dig up compromising info on his political opponents and/or their corporate sponsors and then threaten to use it against them to achieve his political goals.

IMHO, federal politicians are not entitled to Constitutional protections. The Constitution applies only to the people.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

You think they haven't/won't ask all the other carriers for the same information?

Heh, yeah, youre probably right. Guess Ill have to get a burner phone.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

IN all honestly, despite this being a blatant violation of the Constitution (supported, obviously by every right wing tard in Congress), I doubt Obama is the kind of dude to use the data for malicious purposes or even hunt down terrorists.

For starters, any terrorist worth his salt wouldn't be stupid enough to talk over a cell phone.

I believe that O is simply trying to play Chicago-style politics, i. e. dig up compromising info on his political opponents and/or their corporate sponsors and then threaten to use it against them to achieve his political goals.

IMHO, federal politicians are not entitled to Constitutional protections. The Constitution applies only to the people.

Umm....first, Politicians are still citizens. You're of the opinion that becoming a politician should remove your constitutional protections of free speech, assembly, etc?

Second...are you seriously just coming out and saying that you don't think there's anything wrong with a president using unconstitutional actions, or even constitutional actions, of the government with the explicite purpose of damaging political opponents? o_O Like, for instance, Nixon and watergate...a-okay?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Judging from the partisanship of your OP, it's not a stretch to think you've given the Bush Administration a big pass on this. Or, you simply did not know that this has been going on for some time, and are not completely deflated because it's one less false outrage against Obama in your playbook.
There were a large number of conservatives upset about the patriot act. The running joke was that democrats had finally joined the "Black Helicopter" conspiracy theorists in their fear and mistrust of the government. Pretending people from both sides werent upset with and apprehensive about the Patriot act is just simply dishonest. That being said...we arent talking about GWB and its the worst kind of pathetic to continually defend 'your guy' by comparing his actions to Bush. There is no comparison BTW. Many portions of the Patriot Act were dangerous and just plain wrong. Obama? He has taken this to its own level. He has esentially declared American Citizens HAVE no freedoms or rights to privacy...that they are all subject to the whims of the federal government and the greater good, and you and people like you cheer him on and defend him at every turn. The government has no business being in your house...unless of course Obama says so in which case the government has every right to know what is in your freezer, your emails, to listen to your cell phone conversations, and know what kind of deodorant you wear.

But...but BUSH did it too...


Thats so ****ing pathetic.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Umm....first, Politicians are still citizens.

Not really. They're merely tools used by the wealthy, but they're supposed to work for the people.

You're of the opinion that becoming a politician should remove your constitutional protections of free speech, assembly, etc?

Absolutely. Those freedoms belong to the people, and granting pols the same rights compromises the ability of the people to hold them accountable.

Second...are you seriously just coming out and saying that you don't think there's anything wrong with a president using unconstitutional actions, or even constitutional actions, of the government with the explicite purpose of damaging political opponents? o_O Like, for instance, Nixon and watergate...a-okay?

Of course it's wrong to use unconstitutional actions against the people, and YES, that includes spying on calls, just like I stated in my post.

However, if it were possible to strictly limit the scope of the spying to strictly politicians, the military, etc. (which, unfortunately, has yet to be demonstrated), then it would not be a violation of the Constitution because the people would still have their 4th Amendment right protected.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I'm talking specifically about general warrantless wiretapping. That can of worms was opened during the Bush era... in the name of protecting against terrorists. :roll:

Yeah, but that was going in the opposite direction. Basically, if the suicide-bomber-facilitator in Quetta made a sudden phone call to New York, we didn't stop collecting just because the other end of the line was in New York - we waited to see who was getting called by suicide-bomber-facilitators from Pakistan.

This seems more like collecting every single American phone records, and sifting through them to see who's been naughty or nice.

It's the difference between a policeman having probable cause, and searching you just to see if anything turns up.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

IN all honestly, despite this being a blatant violation of the Constitution (supported, obviously by every right wing tard in Congress), I doubt Obama is the kind of dude to use the data for malicious purposes or even hunt down terrorists.

For starters, any terrorist worth his salt wouldn't be stupid enough to talk over a cell phone.

I believe that O is simply trying to play Chicago-style politics, i. e. dig up compromising info on his political opponents and/or their corporate sponsors and then threaten to use it against them to achieve his political goals.

IMHO, federal politicians are not entitled to Constitutional protections. The Constitution applies only to the people.

You had me at right wing tard.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The reporter who broke the story (Glenn Greenwald) is about to give (first?) radio interview on this story.

You can listen at:
http://www.wnyc.org/popup_player/#

(Eric Holder will also likely be in on the call, although silent, and from an undisclosed location)
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

You dont seem too concerned. We're you outraged when Bush did it?

This is me when I think about the Bush government approved spying on it's citizens:

Grumpy-Cat.jpg



This is me when I think about the Obama government approved spying on it's citizens:

Grumpy-Cat.jpg



Is that enough or do you want tears too?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

You had me at right wing tard.

I haven't done the research, but it's a fair bet that every single GOP pol w/the exception of Rand Paul is in favor of the policy.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

And where's your outrage now? I don't remember you being a silent observer or critic regarding survellience during the Bush years.


No matter the administration, it is wrong in my eyes.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Did the Bush Administration perform wholesale warrant-less wiretapping of entire telecom subscribers? If so, that would have been horrible too.

edit: And more to the point, this isn't warrant-less wiretapping, its data mining, and guess what? It was asinine then, and its asinine now.

Yes, I agree.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Seriously? This is old ****ing news. Where was your outrage during the Bush years?

These are not the Bush years, these are the Obama years. We are talking about TODAY. Dismissing government over reach because it has happened before is a coward's way out. Your boy in office promised the most transparent administration ever. I doubt anyone thought that transparency would extend to citizen's information. Are you seriously going to defend this administration for doing something you chastise the last one for? If it was wrong under Bush I would expect this pillar of the people to correct it, not expand it.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

There were a large number of conservatives upset about the patriot act. The running joke was that democrats had finally joined the "Black Helicopter" conspiracy theorists in their fear and mistrust of the government.


And a large part (at least here at DP, to the best of my recollection) who defended it all, by saying that it makes them feel safer from terrorists and they have nothing to hide anyway.


Pretending people from both sides werent upset with and apprehensive about the Patriot act is just simply dishonest.

I agree. So who did that?

That being said...we arent talking about GWB and its the worst kind of pathetic to continually defend 'your guy' by comparing his actions to Bush.

Who is 'my guy' and where was I defending him?

There is no comparison BTW. Many portions of the Patriot Act were dangerous and just plain wrong. Obama? He has taken this to its own level. He has esentially declared American Citizens HAVE no freedoms or rights to privacy...that they are all subject to the whims of the federal government and the greater good, and you and people like you cheer him on and defend him at every turn. The government has no business being in your house...unless of course Obama says so in which case the government has every right to know what is in your freezer, your emails, to listen to your cell phone conversations, and know what kind of deodorant you wear.

What Obama is doing now is no different than during the Bush years. The only difference is that Bush and his Administration came up with all of this, in the name of protection.

But...but BUSH did it too...

He most certainly did.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Yeah, but that was going in the opposite direction. Basically, if the suicide-bomber-facilitator in Quetta made a sudden phone call to New York, we didn't stop collecting just because the other end of the line was in New York - we waited to see who was getting called by suicide-bomber-facilitators from Pakistan.

This seems more like collecting every single American phone records, and sifting through them to see who's been naughty or nice.

It's the difference between a policeman having probable cause, and searching you just to see if anything turns up.

We have had this conversation before--and have managed to keep it civil and productive--despite coming at it from different angles. I respect your stance, and can see the possible benefits... but in the end, to me, the possible consequences are greater than the benefits.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

But the point is that it is wrong, no matther who is in office.

It seems that my post was mistaken for "BUT BUSH DID IT TOO SO ITS OKAY!LOL1!" This is not the case. I have always said that in the area of civil liberties and privacy Obama has been sorely lacking, but so far every serious contender the Republicans have put forth have held...the exact same position.

So give us an alternative and we'll talk. Until then, stop blaming Obama, and start blaming a system that believes we should only be allowed to have the choice of a)having our rights crapped on and b)having our rights crapped on.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

It seems that my post was mistaken for "BUT BUSH DID IT TOO SO ITS OKAY!LOL1!" This is not the case. I have always said that in the area of civil liberties and privacy Obama has been sorely lacking, but so far every serious contender the Republicans have put forth have held...the exact same position.

So give us an alternative and we'll talk. Until then, stop blaming Obama, and start blaming a system that believes we should only be allowed to have the choice of a)having our rights crapped on and b)having our rights crapped on.

Ok, now I see what you are saying. And, I agree with you to a point.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Well I don't know how far it goes back, but it looks like its been going on longer than that, possibly since 2006.
An expert in this aspect of the law said Wednesday night that the order appears to be a routine renewal of a similar order first issued by the same court in 2006. The expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive issues, said that the order is reissued routinely every 90 days and that it is not related to any particular investigation by the FBI or any other agency.
Representatives of the Senate Intelligence committee are confirming this now...

Dianne Feinstein: "It's called protecting America...this has been going on for the last 7 years"
Saxby Chambliss: "This is nothing particularly new...this has been going on for 7 years under the auspices of FISA authority...Every member of the Senate has been advised of this"
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

This is not the case. I have always said that in the area of civil liberties and privacy Obama has been sorely lacking, but so far every serious contender the Republicans have put forth have held...the exact same position.
Ari Fleischer: "Just to be clear...I support President Obama's anti-terror actions. They're bi-partisan now."
 
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