Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily
Good golly, Zyph... did you read the OP???? Frankly it stops just short of trolling. And for the love of God, why do you call it "attacking" Bush when all I am doing is setting the facts straight???
Yes, I read the OP. I wasn't reading him back when Bush was in office, so I don't know if it was hypocritical or not. Regardless, even if it was, it was somewhat irrelevant to me. I've long come to realize that people react differently to their side and the other side doing the same thing in politics. Had he said something like "Spin this Obama fans,
Or will you all treat this like you treated bush?" then I may've commented similarly asking him if how he's treating Obama how he treated Bush?
I've come to a point where people who are hypocritical criticizing someone for being hypocritical bothers me more than either individual simply being hypocritical, if that makse any sense.
As to the "attacking", call it "setting fact straight" or whatever else you want. You are (and more specific to my post, back when he was the center of these type of threads you were) negativily speaking regarding the man, in a condemning and/or disdainful fashion, which to me is "attacking" in the fashion of speech.
yes, but from what I understand, you needed a court-approved warrant to do so. That's what keeps these spying programs from getting out of hand, IMO. But since the Bush Administration--or, pretty much the Patriot Act--that has changed. That is the biggie, eye-opening change.
And that's a matter of how one rationalizes out why they want to be upset with one thing and not upset with another. ECHELON allowed for the warrantless survellience of foreign entities. While reportedly warrants were asked for when the NSA would try to pull information themselves on US citizens from ECHELON, the project was an intel sharing endevour by multiple nations and there was no such restrictions on foreign nations to easedropping on US citizens. None the less, even the lack of warrants on foreign entities is still warrantless searching. But again, all a matter of how one rationalizes things.
Furthermore, forgive me but I'm just about 100% sure the survellience outrage towards Bush has not been singularly due to "warrantless" wiretapping. The vast majority of provisions that the Patriot Act ordered absolutely still had warrants required and yet were still decried routinely becuase of the standards to gain them being lowered and other such things.
Even if one was to say that George Bush "did worse" things in total than Obama.....so what? What relevance does that have to what's being discussed about a current event happening today? Why should someone argue about people not holding Bush's feet to the fire instead actually holding Obama's feet to the fire
UNLESS they don't feel Obama's feet needs to be held to the fire for the acts he's doing.
There is
zero reason to spend the majority of ones time in a thread like this blabbering on about Bush and trying to call imply people are hypocrites for not going afte bush save for one...
That you're mad that "Their" guy didn't get into trouble for doing something you felt is bad, so you're going to give "Your" guy a pass and instead bitch about "their" guy and the response to him instead.
Like you just did above? :roll:
No, not like what I did above. You essentially went "WAAAAH! Bush did it first and worst! Why didn't you yell about him! I'll proceed to spend every breath talking about him and people not taking him to task, perhaps taking half a moment to give a quick one line half hearted slap at this so I can pat myself on the back...BUT BUSH DID IT FIRST!".
I'm pointing out that Bush didn't "do it first", not in terms of questionable survellience actions that provided further erosion of 4th amendment rights and greater power of the government to look into peoples private lives. It happened under Bush, Under Clinton, Under Nixon, Under LBJ, Under FDR, and it can go on and on. My point was that there's always "THE LAST GUY...". Assaults on our 4th amendment rights, on the issues of survellience, on easedropping on individuals be it citizen of foreign, these things did not magically start with George W. Bush. My point was not "Blame Clinton" or "Blame LBJ" or "Blame ANYBODY"...it was that you should stop going "BUT BUSH!!!!!!" as if that's an excuse for Obama or as if he gave birth the notion into the world.
I would figure that should've been obvious by the very next paragraph which you say you "agree with" and dealt with the very notion of "the last guy" complex.
However, some steps are broader. Stopping the courts from getting involved was a big one, and that happened under Bush. Obama has certainly continued the program, but I am not sure he's done anything differently than staus quo.
Which is pretty much precisely my point in the first place, you sharing your own hypocrisy as you bitch about hypocrisy.
You were indignantly responding to a poster as if they reacted differently to Bush's actions than they have to Obama's actions...while you wantonly act differently to Obama's actions than you did to Bush's. You rationalize it away any way you want, but you are no less guilty of treating them different than those you were going after. I'm sure you make excuses for why for you "it's different" but I'd dare say those you're going after would similarly have in their mind excuse for why "it's different" as well. And I'm sure both of you would roll your eyes and claim the other ones "difference" is invalid, because its two sides of the same coin of person.
