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Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily [W:452]

Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Yes. And it's not just "Obama" doing this. ALL three branches of our government are involved in this program. I support it. I'm not willing to give into the paranoia. We have ZERO evidence that this program has inconvenienced 1 American. Not 1. We need a way to balance our security with our values. This program certainly within that balance.

This guy Snowden should be vigorously pursued by the FBI and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I suspect that is under way. The real crime here is the fact that a "contractor" was making $200,000 on the American tax payer. That's the real issue. The privatization of government power is a much bigger concern than data mining. We have too many contractors--a Republican lead project naturally--involved in government affairs. We need to get back to a government power being within the hands of sworn government employees not private companies.

Well, I suppose theres bound to be someone who supports a police state.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Well, I suppose theres bound to be someone who supports a police state.
Yes, and heaven forfend that any American should be "inconvenienced" with an unwarranted intrusion into their private affairs. You gotta love that choice of words.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Yes, and heaven forfend that any American should be "inconvenienced" with an unwarranted intrusion into their private affairs. You gotta love that choice of words.

I dont think there are many people against targeted surveillance in the course of an investigation, which was the intent of these laws. Its the secrecy and widespread survielliance thats the problem. But I guess some people are OK with the govt deciding what neccesary.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Yeah, and if you're doing nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about. As for the 4th Amendment and this situation, you are absolutely wrong. The government CAN track WHO you call/dial if they need to WITHOUT a warrant. SCOTUS has already ruled on that.

In Smith v. Maryland , the Supreme Court held that there’s no reasonable expectation of privacy, and thus no Fourth Amendment protection, for the phone numbers people dial (as distinct from the content of the call), because the number dialed is information you voluntarily share with the phone company to complete the call and for billing purposes.

Technically you are correct, but the difference between the Smith case and Prism is that the latter includes EVERYBODY with a phone or other device. Big difference, I say.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I dont think there are many people against targeted surveillance in the course of an investigation, which was the intent of these laws. Its the secrecy and widespread survielliance thats the problem. But I guess some people are OK with the govt deciding what neccesary.
Depends on the target. If it's everybody, then we have a big problem, and that's what it looks like now. I don't think we know enough yet to make an informed decision. I do think the road to a police state is littered with "inconveniences" that grow as we become accustomed to them. I can well imagine in the final stages hearing the storm troopers saying, "We had to execute your son. Sorry for the inconvenience."
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Well, I suppose theres bound to be someone who supports a police state.

Depending upon how the term is defined, MANY people support a police state.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I dont think there are many people against targeted surveillance in the course of an investigation, which was the intent of these laws. Its the secrecy and widespread survielliance thats the problem. But I guess some people are OK with the govt deciding what neccesary.

Yes, and most generally they are the same people that think that those whom have attained success and wealth through their own hard work, and savvy don't deserve it, and should just give it to someone whom has done nothing to earn it.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

A bipartisan group of senators are pushing legislation that would force the government to reveal the secret court opinions authorizing the National Security Agency’s domestic surveillance programs.

“Americans deserve to know how much information about their private communications the government believes it’s allowed to take under the law,” said Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), who is spearheading the effort alongside Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), in a statement.


Read more: Senators push bill to declassify secret FISA surveillance rulings - The Hill's DEFCON Hill
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

So long as it doesnt reveal methods to our enemies, this seems like a reasonable thing to do. Since congress and the courts wont do their job of stopping govt from abusing the power it has, the people need to at least be able to know whats going on so they can do something about it during elections.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

From the New York Times Editiorial Board:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?_r=0

It doesn't get more scathing than this from an Obamabot media outlet.

Within hours of the disclosure that federal authorities routinely collect data on phone calls Americans make, regardless of whether they have any bearing on a counterterrorism investigation, the Obama administration issued the same platitude it has offered every time President Obama has been caught overreaching in the use of his powers: Terrorists are a real menace and you should just trust us to deal with them because we have internal mechanisms (that we are not going to tell you about) to make sure we do not violate your rights.

Those reassurances have never been persuasive — whether on secret warrants to scoop up a news agency’s phone records or secret orders to kill an American suspected of terrorism — especially coming from a president who once promised transparency and accountability.

The administration has now lost all credibility on this issue. Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive branch will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it. That is one reason we have long argued that the Patriot Act, enacted in the heat of fear after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks by members of Congress who mostly had not even read it, was reckless in its assignment of unnecessary and overbroad surveillance powers.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Politics...its just so frickin aesome!!!

 
Which was exactly what the Cons were planning till they got blown away in an
election their handlers were telling them was a slam dunk......................

Slam dunk....LOL !!

Yea we're paying for your slam dunk allright.

Massive corruption, massive new structural debt and a economy held up solely by TRILLIONS in Printing.

Lol...yea you showed us...
 
he said the same in an interview last nite on msnbc with lawrence odonnell

The journalist who exposed classified U.S. surveillance programs leaked by an American defense contractor said Tuesday that there will be more 'significant revelations' to come from the documents.

"We are going to have a lot more significant revelations that have not yet been heard over the next several weeks and months," said Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian.

Greenwald told The Associated Press the decision was being made on when to release the next story based on the information provided by Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old employee of government contractor Booz Allen Hamilton who has been accused by U.S. Senate intelligence chairwoman Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California of committing an "act of treason" that should be prosecuted.

"There are dozens of stories generated by the documents he provided, and we intend to pursue every last one of them," Greenwald said.

Journalist in US surveillance case: More to come - Associated Press

stay tuned
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Technically you are correct, but the difference between the Smith case and Prism is that the latter includes EVERYBODY with a phone or other device. Big difference, I say.

The "everybody" makes no difference. None. Each case would fall under the same decision. You (everyone) have "no reasonable expectation of privacy" under the 4th admendment over access to numbers you dial. The content of the conversations is protected by the 4th admendment and should be. But not the number to number information. So I'm just correct.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Well, I suppose theres bound to be someone who supports a police state.

Well, and I suppose there's bound to be somebody who supports the Corporatocracy.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

I'm just correct

LOL!

that's what darth cheney said

obama's a neocon
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

reaction from the eu:

Officials in European capitals demanded immediate answers from their US counterparts and denounced the practice of secretly gathering digital information on Europeans as unacceptable, illegal and a serious violation of basic rights.

In Europe, the German chancellor Angela Merkel indicated she would press Obama on the revelations at a Berlin summit next week, while deputy European Commission chief Viviane Reding said she would press US officials in Dublin on Friday, adding that "a clear legal framework for the protection of personal data is not a luxury or constraint but a fundamental right".

Peter Schaar, Germany's federal data protection commissioner told the Guardian that it was unacceptable that US authorities have access to the data of European citizens "and the level of protection is lower than what is guaranteed for US citizens." His Italian counterpart, Antonello Soro, said that the data dragnet "would not be legal in Italy" and would be "contrary to the principles of our legislation and would represent a very serious violation".

In London, the British foreign secretary William Hague was forced to defend the UK's use of intelligence gathered by the US. In the House of Commons, Hague told MPs that British laws did not allow for "indiscriminate trawling" for information. "There is no danger of a deep state out of control in some way," he said.

But Hague was reluctant to go into detail on how Britain handled information offered by US intelligence agencies, as opposed to information requested, or whether it was subject to the same ministerial oversight, including warrants.

the polls:


The first polls since the leak stories first broke indicated that the majority of Americans oppose the government scooping up their phone data. According to the Rasmussen poll just 26% of voters are in favour of the government's collection of data from Verizon while 59% are opposed. In total 46% of Americans think that their own data has been monitored. But a poll by the Pew Research Center, asking a more general question, said 56% respondents approved of the NSA surveillance program.

the least untruthful response:

Pressure was growing on the White House to explain whether there was effective congressional oversight of the programmes revealed by Snowden. The director of national intelligence, James Clapper, said in an NBC interview that he had responded in the "least untruthful manner" possible when he denied in congressional hearings last year that the NSA collected data on millions of Americans.

NSA snooping: Obama under pressure as senator denounces 'act of treason' | World news | The Guardian
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

hardly a neocon, the elite natl journal's ron fournier offers as premise: "at a time when americans have little faith in us political and media institutions, it's not sufficient to say trust us"

The Dirty Secrets of Washington Elites - NationalJournal.com

"secrecy sows doubt and paranoia"

"surely it's possible to start an open and honest conversation about drone warfare, domestic surveillance, and big data in general terms that don't expose cherished sources and methods"

how does fournier know?

"it's done all the time"

bush sold "bad" intelligence to get us into iraq, obama outed the seals who got ubl (defense secty robt gates said stfu), the admin sourced the kill list, the stuxnet virus, the underwear bomber...

Obama only goes after leaks that don't benefit him - CBS News

"it's done all the time, usually when transparency suits the white house's political agenda"

and there's "the orwellian habit: virtually every unauthorized leak, including the most recent ones about the prying eyes and ears at the nsa, is followed by the release of classified information (an authorized leak) that supports the administration's case against leaks"

fournier, career dc bureau chief for ap and regular msnbc contributor, concludes:

The Bush administration, Obama said in 2007, "puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand."

Telling Americans they need to be treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed BS) or exposed to greater threats is Obama's false choice. The president and his fellow Washington elites need to start treating Americans like grown-ups.

are YOU a mushroom?
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

wapo (karen tumulty) this morning:

Surveillance, IRS, media controversies fuel angst on left and right - The Washington Post

A late-spring storm of Washington controversies has created a rare event in these partisan, polarized times: a shared I-told-you-so moment for the left and the right.

For anyone worried about the potential for government overreach, the past few weeks have brought more cause for concern.

The Internal Revenue Service targeting conservative groups for special scrutiny. The Justice Department subpoenaing the records of media organizations in a search-and-destroy mission against their sources of information. The National Security Agency sweeping up phone records and secretly tapping into the Internet services that have become the nervous system of 21st-century life.

All raise questions that go beyond the ideological differences over the size and cost of government that have come to define the Democratic and Republican parties.

That explains why the newly revealed leaker of classified information about government surveillance, 29-year-old tech specialist Edward Snowden, has been hailed as a “hero” by figures as diverse as conservative commentator Glenn Beck, liberal filmmaker Michael Moore and Daniel Ellsberg of Pentagon Papers fame.

And the scandals — or pseudo-scandals, depending on one’s point of view — land at a time when polls show the public’s trust in the federal government is at or near all-time lows.

“All of those things fit together as almost a patchwork quilt of too much, too far and too intrusive,” Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart said. “It’s not bringing people together. It’s uniting in outrage.”

it's thru the looking glass, says the post

david corn (of 47% fame) called it kafka

constitutional law prof obama in 2008 railed against violations of the constitution, abuse of power, betrayals of civil liberties

but that was before he "matured" and "expanded exponentially" the executive's powers to search

so leahy of vermont and lee of utah are suddenly and eagerly working together

obama wanted bipartisanship...

dick durbin, citing rand paul, says "libertarians meet the left"

only united in opposition to what obama is doing

tumulty recalls paul's filibuster to stop holder from:

Eric Holder: Drone Strike To Kill U.S. Citizen On American Soil Legal - HuffPo

who needs a warrant? especially when you're the most transparent president of all time?

the kill list paul protested was one of those stragetic leaks to the nytimes that came FROM white house staff

paul's 13 hour speech elicited a million tweets, half with the hash tag "standwithrand"

uber lib ron wyden is one of paul's most privileged pals

tumulty cites a cnn poll conducted after boston: 61% are more concerned about civil liberties than 31% who lean towards security

durbin, the whip, is surprised

“the poll was done after boston, when you would have thought that would have colored the answer, and it didn’t"

grover norquist (ugh) sees a coalition: the aggrieved now include tea party activists who believe they were unfairly singled out by the irs, liberals who expected obama to exercise more restraint, and the news media fearful of a chilling effect on the flow of vital information

“it’s easier for both teams to say those are powers no one should have,” goes grover, "it gored the right, it gored the left, and it gored the judge---the press”
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The "everybody" makes no difference. None. Each case would fall under the same decision. You (everyone) have "no reasonable expectation of privacy" under the 4th admendment over access to numbers you dial. The content of the conversations is protected by the 4th admendment and should be. But not the number to number information. So I'm just correct.

Yes, you're correct, but the comparison between the Smith case, one with probable cause involved, and just a general all inclusive fishing expedition with no probable cause whatsoever, is rather apples and oranges.
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

cnn today:

Second term mostly drama for Obama - CNN.com

Less than five months in, Obama and his administration appear knocked off balance by a barrage of controversies and criticisms exacerbating the bitter political battles that marked his first four years in office.

He's under fire from the right and left, accused by some of conspiratorial machinations to grab even more power than the leader of the free world legally holds.

Headlines are dominated by scandals such as the Internal Revenue Service targeting of conservative groups and classified leaks that disclosed details of the vast data mining and surveillance apparatus created after the 2001 terrorist attacks.

Meanwhile, Republicans and some Democrats say his attorney general should resign over various issues including secret subpoenas of journalist phone records.

Even the first lady got heckled -- at a Democratic fundraiser, no less. While the issue was gay rights, the incident showed how Obama supporters also were frustrated by what they consider to be a lack of sufficient progress on progressive issues they expect the president to champion.

To columnist and CNN contributor John Avlon, the latest Washington scandals "have put the president off balance," with the administration on defense instead of driving the agenda.

"The choice will be in how the administration tries to deal with it," Avlon said. "If it's in denial and acts like these events are occurring outside its purview or control, that will be a big problem."

"This is a president now who's dealing with issues he never thought he was going to have to deal with," [CNN senior analyst Gloria] Borger said Monday, referring to drone strikes, government surveillance and classified leaks.

Avlon and Borger agreed that Obama must be proactive in dealing with the newly revealed details about how the government has access to phone records and Internet activity as tools in fighting terrorism.

instead, according to cnn, the president is telling us to "trust him"

"no one is listening to your phone calls"

however, when bush did less, the president platformed against this "false choice"

"you can't have 100% security and 100% privacy," he says today

nsa activities are merely "minor encroachments"

cnn chief national correspondent john king: "if the president doesn't try to get ahead of it, guess what, he'll get dragged along with it"

all of the above complicate immigration reform, continues cnn

and syria

(as well as anything else the president contemplates, like guns, gay marriage, tax reform...)

when's the last time he griped about sequester, whatever happened to green investment?

and then there's the trouble at foggy bottom (the state dept), which has been rocked by cbs' scoop saying inspector general aurelia fedenisn found 8 crimes committed by state employees (including the belgian ambassador's soliciting minors for sex) which were COVERED UP by the heavy hitters on the top floor of the building

as well as the doj, where eric holder told congress on may 15 that he was not aware of even "potential" prosecution of press participants

huffpo, wapo and the natl journal have all called for the ignorant (according to holder) ag to resign

it all comes down to trust

as in, few anymore have any in this white house

the nyt editorialized after the nsa broke, "obama has lost all credibility"

this aint watergate, the ex sycophants at cnn conclude

but remember john avlon's warning at the top: "if the administration is in denial and acts like these events are occurring outside its purview or control, that will be a big problem"

obama's matured, but has he come clean?

stay tuned
 
Re: Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

cnn's borger, king and john avlon recommend, "get out there, get out front"

he can't and won't

As Edward Snowden speaks out, President Obama goes silent - POLITICO.com

can't: ongoing investigation, even prosecution

won't: snowden does a much better civil libertarian than does the most transparent president of all time

stay tuned
 
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