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GM's return to top continues as it rejoins S&P 500

**WRONG**

To be fair, all the government did was securitize a loan that Fiat demanded in order to negotiate a buyout.

No private financiers were willing to offer such a sizable loan, so the government stepped in.

Kudos to them for doing it, as GM seems to be doing pretty well.

The real hero here is Fiat, an Italian car-maker, for turning around a bankrupt company and making it profitable again.

**WRONG**
 
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StringBean said:
To be fair, all the government did was securitize a loan that Fiat demanded in order to negotiate a buyout.

No private financiers were willing to offer such a sizable loan, so the government stepped in.

Kudos to them for doing it, as GM seems to be doing pretty well.

The real hero here is Fiat, an Italian car-maker, for turning around a bankrupt company and making it profitable again.
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What does Fiat have to do with GM's rescue? Fiat was involved in Chrysler's rescue...
 
Fenton said:
The GM bailout was a payback to the Unions for their support, plain and simple, it was a poor choice that cost tax payers billions and basically let any Union know, if they're large enough, they can through the threat of strikes and collective bargaining run any American Corporation into the ground and receive a leg up when that corporation can no longer keep it's head above water.

GM should have been allowed to go through a managed bankruptcy. Forget that their stock has risen in a Stock Market that exclusively held up with low interest rates falsely pushed down with massive printing and monetizing of our own debt. A stock market that's waiting for the first indication of stopping of QE so they unload massive amounts of over priced assets, equities and bonds.

The GM bailout set a bad example.

Mark Milke: Bailouts of GM and Chrysler were a bad idea - Opinion - Times Colonist
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Bingo!!!!
 
Grant said:
Those 1 million people would just be working for other auto companies because supply would still have to meet demand. We can understand why the people of Ohio voted for Obama and it's because they were bribed. There is no other way to put it.
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Really? Four years in advance, they were bribed? Sureeeeeeeeee they were.:rofl
 
pbrauer said:
All the credit markets were closed at the time, it was Uncle Sam or nothing. Today there is approximately 1 million people working because of the bailout of GM and Chrysler. The citizens of Ohio showed their appreciation to President Obama by voting for him. Oh and all those workers are paying their share of FIT.
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It should have been NOTHING then, as those employees being part of the Union that sunk GM with their excessive greed needed to be taught a hard lesson. Those citizens of Ohio that DO support Obama are extremely naive, and poorly informed individuals.

They showed their appreciation by inflicting four more years of what has to be the most corrupt President in History on the rest of us who.....have brains in our heads.

Now they're dependent on a economy that being held up with massive unprecedented central bank printing and that only.
 
Fenton said:
It should have been NOTHING then, as those employees being part of the Union that sunk GM with their excessive greed needed to be taught a hard lesson. Those citizens of Ohio that DO support Obama are extremely naive, and poorly informed individuals.

They showed their appreciation by inflicting four more years of what has to be the most corrupt President in History on the rest of us who.....have brains in our heads.

Now they're dependent on a economy that being held up with massive unprecedented central bank printing and that only.
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No matter how many times you say it, it still isn't true.
 
American said:
Bingo!!!!
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Uh, not quite.

Any agreement would need union support, due to the pension obligations.

No one in the private sector was remotely interested in buying GM. "Managed bankruptcy" was not an option -- if it was, the execs would not have crawled to DC to beg for a bailout.

A stock with crappy fundamentals and no future isn't going to go up, even in a bull market. Apple, which is still killing it in terms of profits and cash on hand, has had its stock price drop for the past 9 months.
 
disneydude said:
You do understand, don't you....that there are different types of bankruptcy. You should probably know that before making such a foolish comment.
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LOL !!

Says the guy who claims California's finances are " just fine''...

I'm sure you'll understand if we completely ignore everything you say.
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!

Says the guy who claims California's finances are " just fine''...

I'm sure you'll understand if we completely ignore everything you say.
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I take it that you aren't aware that there are different types of bankruptcy, right?
 
pbrauer said:
No matter how many times you say it, it still isn't true.
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but don't think he'll stop ... these cons learned it from Cheney ... he kept connecting 9/11 to Iraq knowing it was a lie, but he kept doing it ... so will fenton ...
 
windowdressing said:
but don't think he'll stop ... these cons learned it from Cheney ... he kept connecting 9/11 to Iraq knowing it was a lie, but he kept doing it ... so will fenton ...
Click to expand...

As the recovery continues it is going to get worse and worse for Fenton. Out right lies will be the only thing he can post and wait until we elect Hillary to succeed Obama. I would not want to be anywhere near him when he explodes. The GOP along with the radical right that took them over are fast becoming only an unpleasant memory.
 
pbrauer said:
No matter how many times you say it, it still isn't true.
Click to expand...

Says the guy who thinks the IRS's targeting of Conservatives was a "isolated incident" and just a response to a huge influx of new request. You exemplify false statements as you desperately try to mitigate the massive amount corrupt criminal behavior that's emanating from the idiots you people put into office on a day to day basis.

You and your ilk owe the American people who knew better a huge apology. But, I don't expect Liberals to own up to their mistakes, that would take courage, integrity and humility.
 
Fenton said:
Says the guy who thinks the IRS's targeting of Conservatives was a "isolated incident" and just a response to a huge influx of new request. You exemplify false statements as you desperately try to mitigate the massive amount corrupt criminal behavior that's emanating from the idiots you people put into office on a day to day basis.

You and your ilk owe the American people who knew better a huge apology. But, I don't expect Liberals to own up to their mistakes, that would take courage, integrity and humility.
Click to expand...

Just wait until we elect Hillary next. There really isn't any opponent who has a chance.
 
iguanaman said:
As the recovery continues it is going to get worse and worse for Fenton. Out right lies will be the only thing he can post and wait until we elect Hillary to succeed Obama. I would not want to be anywhere near him when he explodes. The GOP along with the radical right that took them over are fast becoming only an unpleasant memory.
Click to expand...

instead they continue to go after group after group ... did you hear about the GOP Republican congressman who attributed rapes in the military to raging hormones? they can't help themselves ....
 
Fenton said:
Says the guy who thinks the IRS's targeting of Conservatives was a "isolated incident" and just a response to a huge influx of new request. You exemplify false statements as you desperately try to mitigate the massive amount corrupt criminal behavior that's emanating from the idiots you people put into office on a day to day basis.

You and your ilk owe the American people who knew better a huge apology. But, I don't expect Liberals to own up to their mistakes, that would take courage, integrity and humility.
Click to expand...

you wouldn't recognize integrity, courage, and humility if they bit you on the butt ... Do you read your own posts?
 
iguanaman said:
As the recovery continues it is going to get worse and worse for Fenton. Out right lies will be the only thing he can post and wait until we elect Hillary to succeed Obama. I would not want to be anywhere near him when he explodes.
Click to expand...

LOL !! What recovery Iggy ?

The recovery that's solely based on the FEDS MASSIVE AND UNPRECEDENTED PRINTING ? The recovery that being held up by low interest rates that are being held down by false pretenses as our own FED buys the majority of our short term debt ?

Hey this is Obama in 2007 telling the truth ..

" I will pass a law that the vast majority of you will hate, and it will stagnate our economy, and raise taxes and so I don't look incompetent I will have my FED appointee buy up a majority of TREASURIES and I will have them pay banks interest on their reserves, AFTER they of-course, GIVE those banks money for free,"

" Those Banks will get to keep your savings for free, and those low interest rates will push the Stock Market to new heights, as assets and bonds are over valued, and the rich get richer , and you the middle class, struggle "

" You , my legion of idiots, will go out into the inter-webs and proclaim my greatness because frankly, you people are too stupid to know any better "

Something tells me Iggy, if Obama had simply told the truth, you would have voted for him anyway, right after asking yourself the question ... " our FED can buy Treasure ?? "
 
windowdressing said:
but don't think he'll stop ... these cons learned it from Cheney ... he kept connecting 9/11 to Iraq knowing it was a lie, but he kept doing it ... so will fenton ...
Click to expand...

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002


Still stuck on your Bush obsession and 10 year old false narratives about the Iraq war ?

You guys lied, for years saying Bush lied and you complained about his incompetence. Your answer to that was to ......elect a liar and a incompetent.


Nice, and you have the nerve to come here and post publicly your tired, inane and Bush blame.
 
pbrauer said:
Really? Four years in advance, they were bribed? Sureeeeeeeeee they were.:rofl
Click to expand...

Do you recall the campaign slogan that 'GM is alive and Osama is dead'? Don't let your beliefs and prejudices get in the way of the facts. That's for children.
 
Fenton said:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002


Still stuck on your Bush obsession and 10 year old false narratives about the Iraq war ?

You guys lied, for years saying Bush lied and you complained about his incompetence. Your answer to that was to ......elect a liar and a incompetent.


Nice, and you have the nerve to come here and post publicly your tired, inane and Bush blame.
Click to expand...

The real problem, and it is very serious, is that have no idea how genuinely stupid they really are. This is not good for the country.
 
Grant said:
The real problem, and it is very serious, is that have no idea how genuinely stupid they really are. This is not good for the country.
Click to expand...

Some guy posted a video on you tube of his attempting to interview Obama supporters. It was a lesson in self control for me, as I just couldn't fathom that there were people that stupid voting in our elections.
 
Fenton said:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002


Still stuck on your Bush obsession and 10 year old false narratives about the Iraq war ?

You guys lied, for years saying Bush lied and you complained about his incompetence. Your answer to that was to ......elect a liar and a incompetent.


Nice, and you have the nerve to come here and post publicly your tired, inane and Bush blame.
Click to expand...


nah, the nerve is all yours ... How many of those quotes include recommending the occupation of Iraq and how can you say he did not deliberately lie to justify his adventure that caused so many lives? perhaps if you substituted some shame for your nerve you'd have something worthwhile to say ... But it's just like a con not to take responsibility for the messes you make ... in addition to Iraq, you took us to the brink of a depression ... oh, I'm sorry, Dubya had nothing to do with that either, did he? Luckily voters saw what you can't see because you're so blinded by your hate for Obama ... well, settle in, you have three and half years of him left ... then get up, go to the bathroom, and then sit down again for four more years with Hillary or another Democrat ... meanwhile, do me a favor, give a lot of money to Paul and Cruz ... please ...
 
disneydude said:
You do understand, don't you....that there are different types of bankruptcy. You should probably know that before making such a foolish comment.
Click to expand...

And you should realize that Obama and company bailed out the execs and ****ed the stock holders instead of acting like a ventriloquist
 
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