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Syria fighting rages, more chemical attacks reported

j-mac said:
I am sure that a strongly worded letter, ya know, like the ones they rifle off to NK all too often will surely work on Assad no? :shock:
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I agree that the UN is a wet paper bag, but I don't believe it is the US's responsibility to police every region of the world. We can offer intelligence and we can ensure open waterways. I am ok with that.
 
Blue_State said:
I agree that the UN is a wet paper bag, but I don't believe it is the US's responsibility to police every region of the world. We can offer intelligence and we can ensure open waterways. I am ok with that.
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In a world where other powers step up to shoulder some of the burden of freedom then I would agree, but we don't live in that world. Competing powers have different agendas than what is beneficial to the US, and then there is the fact that this administration seems to be cherry picking whom they believe deserves our aid. Plus the fact that I believe that we are already covertly supplying the rebels with arms.

Our fingers are already all over the ME and its changing landscape. We can't just turn our backs now because we have made the mistake of involvement in the first place. Also in the region is the fact of our strongest, and only true ally in the region, Israel, are we really to just turn our backs on them?
 
j-mac said:
In a world where other powers step up to shoulder some of the burden of freedom then I would agree, but we don't live in that world. Competing powers have different agendas than what is beneficial to the US, and then there is the fact that this administration seems to be cherry picking whom they believe deserves our aid. Plus the fact that I believe that we are already covertly supplying the rebels with arms.

Our fingers are already all over the ME and its changing landscape. We can't just turn our backs now because we have made the mistake of involvement in the first place. Also in the region is the fact of our strongest, and only true ally in the region, Israel, are we really to just turn our backs on them?
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I see where you are coming from. I see the competing powers. I see that leaving other entities to handle the situation may not benefit us. And I would assume we have been getting weapons there as well.

I would not turn our back on Israel. I just wouldn't fight a war for them. Share our intelligence with them. Cross train with their units. However, I can't say it is our responsibility to spearhead a war in Syria.
 
j-mac said:
there is the fact that this administration seems to be cherry picking whom they believe deserves our aid. Plus the fact that I believe that we are already covertly supplying the rebels with arms.
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Facts based on "seems" and conspiracy theory? That's a tough start for a debate.
 
apdst said:
Killing all the bad guys? Of course it's not. It's childish to suggest that it is.
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Yes, it is. Not my problem you don't know what your words mean.
 
Boo Radley said:
Just a reminder of what you actually said:
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This is one of those common sense moments, where you are supposed to have the intelligence to realize that I was talking about all the bad guys and not everyone, including womena and children.

I think you knew what I meant, you just wanted to be messy for some reason.
 
Blue_State said:
I see where you are coming from. I see the competing powers. I see that leaving other entities to handle the situation may not benefit us. And I would assume we have been getting weapons there as well.

I would not turn our back on Israel. I just wouldn't fight a war for them. Share our intelligence with them. Cross train with their units. However, I can't say it is our responsibility to spearhead a war in Syria.
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I agree not "spearhead" but if we are going to supply weapons we need to be up front about it.
 
apdst said:
This is one of those common sense moments, where you are supposed to have the intelligence to realize that I was talking about all the bad guys and not everyone, including womena and children.

I think you knew what I meant, you just wanted to be messy for some reason.
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I told you, even with the bad guys comment, a meaningless notation BTW, it is till genocide.
 
Boo Radley said:
I told you, even with the bad guys comment, a meaningless notation BTW, it is till genocide.
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Like it or not, that is the administration policy. No longer do we attempt capture of high value enemy, rather in place, we now just drone them.
 
j-mac said:
Like it or not, that is the administration policy. No longer do we attempt capture of high value enemy, rather in place, we now just drone them.
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Not sure that is so. But keep in mind actions mean more than words. Syria will largely have to sort this out themselves. That's as it should be.


But I do oppose the drone strikes.
 
apdst said:
Killing Nazis during WW2 was genocide?
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We didn't say kill them all, or even try to. We tried to beat them. Prisoners or wounded mp removed them from the battle field. And frankly where you have a country in a civil war, all sides fighting each other, commenting on a post that says we can't tell who is best for us, your comment includes a lot of people.
 
Boo Radley said:
We didn't say kill them all, or even try to. We tried to beat them. Prisoners or wounded mp removed them from the battle field. And frankly where you have a country in a civil war, all sides fighting each other, commenting on a post that says we can't tell who is best for us, your comment includes a lot of people.
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Well, the MP's didn't remove all of the prisoners. There were a bunch of them executed on the spot by American personel.

But, hey...believe whatever twisted piece of logic you want, if you think it makes you right and makes you feel better.
 
apdst said:
Well, the MP's didn't remove all of the prisoners. There were a bunch of them executed on the spot by American personel.

But, hey...believe whatever twisted piece of logic you want, if you think it makes you right and makes you feel better.
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And you just keep making excuses.
 
Boo Radley said:
Not sure that is so. But keep in mind actions mean more than words.
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You're not sure? You're right, actions do mean more than words...For example I give you the NYTimes....

"Though no official will publicly acknowledge it, the bottom line is clear: killing is more convenient than capture for both the United States and the foreign countries where the strikes occur."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/w...define-war-on-terror.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



Syria will largely have to sort this out themselves. That's as it should be.
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So, our intervention is selective right? Ok for Libya, ok for Egypt, not for Syria. What makes Syrian's different, are they less deserving in your eyes?

But I do oppose the drone strikes.
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So, what would your preference be?
 
j-mac said:
You're not sure? You're right, actions do mean more than words...For example I give you the NYTimes....

"Though no official will publicly acknowledge it, the bottom line is clear: killing is more convenient than capture for both the United States and the foreign countries where the strikes occur."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/w...define-war-on-terror.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0





So, our intervention is selective right? Ok for Libya, ok for Egypt, not for Syria. What makes Syrian's different, are they less deserving in your eyes?



So, what would your preference be?
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Killing and genocide are two different things. Do you see killing from the drones large enough to equal genocide? Present that information.

And I have also stated clearly that we should not be involved in any of them. Not Afghanistan, not Iraq, not Lybia, and not Syria. Imperialism should not our thing.

I have made a distinct in level of involvement when some have tried to pretend one was equal to another.
 
Boo Radley said:
Killing and genocide are two different things. Do you see killing from the drones large enough to equal genocide? Present that information.
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I don't believe I introduced 'genocide' into the discussion. Why are you adding things not talked about?

And I have also stated clearly that we should not be involved in any of them. Not Afghanistan, not Iraq, not Lybia, and not Syria. Imperialism should not our thing.
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Ah, but the fact is that we either were, are are involved in three out of your four listed....So, are the Syrian's not worthy of our help of something?

I have made a distinct in level of involvement when some have tried to pretend one was equal to another.
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I am not saying your distinction is right or wrong at the moment, I am just asking you to explain it.
 
j-mac said:
I don't believe I introduced 'genocide' into the discussion. Why are you adding things not talked about?



Ah, but the fact is that we either were, are are involved in three out of your four listed....So, are the Syrian's not worthy of our help of something?



I am not saying your distinction is right or wrong at the moment, I am just asking you to explain it.
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You might read the post your respond to. It was to someone else, and the discussion was about genocide. You broke in and said Obama was doing that as well, genocide.

And being involved doesn't make any worth it. We didn't go into Rawanda either (where there was a more valid reason to be involved). The fact is we should not be inserting ourselves into other people's struggles. Being imperialistic has hurt us enough.

Some have tried to pretend that Lybia was equal to Iraq, for example. While I disagreed with both, they were not alike. There were major differences.
 
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