• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Texas Shooting Spree Leaves 2 Dead, 5 Wounded

sangha said:
Good analogy

In the US, dying while shopping is the equivalent of martyring oneself for Mohammed in Iraq
Click to expand...

Women and children hit hardest.
 
sangha said:
IOW, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a Bradley
Click to expand...

In case you wondered, it's pretty dark at 4:30 AM. I've been to Eden TX. and there not a lot going on at that time. This shooter was probably tweeking from a meth high and was pissed he couldn't find more targets. [thus driving from place to place]

And yes if there had been a well armed citizen on the streets at that hour, they could of stopped this guy cold.
 
clownboy said:
Got news for you, not everyone in Texas carries a gun with them wherever they go. In fact, probably a small percentage do.
Click to expand...

Too many westerns cause such a discrepancy in reality.
 
Strucky said:
We might as well as go all out and require a brain scan to buy knives,drives cars,prepare food,vote...
Click to expand...

I wonder if the person who suggested that would submit?

Personally, what's inside my head is the last thing I want revealed.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
This could also have been prevented if the guy didn't have a car. I never said to stop doing the research.

Rather than banter with words, tell us what percent of these mass killings could be prevented if an fMRI were used in background checks?
Click to expand...

You do realize that this requires research. Currently fMRI scans to detect personality and character disorder is not included in background checks for guns. But we have percentages killings done from them today. Hence once such a policy it is established that includes fMRI in background checks a quantitative research should conclude how much the killings have dropped.

Lastly, the measures would only stop people with character and personality disorders from obtaining a legal gun. They could seek out the illegal market. But then they risk being captured and jailed for that.

With the lack of such a research though I could state that such policies would only allow people with personality and character disorders whom obtained an illegal gun to continue on with their ill intend and commit murder. How much exactly such a percentage is would involve your current number of: psychopaths, sociopaths, mass murderers, implicit murderers, and paranoid schizophrenics, their average kill, and then an estimated drop from there.

For more details apply background checks with fMRI and let us do some research to provide you with final data results. If you then do not like it you can change the policy. It is not like you shall be stuck with it for all eternity!

AliHajiSheik said:
Tell us why whatever percent you answer to my first question, isn't reason enough to screen everyone? Buying a car, getting on a plane, or whatever other situation.
Click to expand...

To the contrary I want to tell you that any drop of percent from what you have should be considered as a positive development. You make it sound like "screening everyone" is a chore. But you just enter an fMRI, hear some laud noises, and get out.

Driving a car also requires one to have a license. Known terrorists cannot enter a plane probably, so there should be some policy about background checks for getting a plane ticket also.

AliHajiSheik said:
I prefer to evaluate on a case-by-case basis whether something is for the common good or not.
Click to expand...

Well I do not mind your critical scrutiny. We here live by those each day. But you need to evaluate whether dropping kills from personality and character disorders is good by making it harder for them to get illegal guns? As well consider the added odds of being arrested by attempting to get illegal guns, would both contribute to common good.
 
Strucky said:
We might as well as go all out and require a brain scan to buy knives,drives cars,prepare food,vote...
Click to expand...

You know it sounds funny when you say it like. And I appreciate you contributing to my humor :) .

But the way I see it the brain scanning technology would be involved for all that and a lot more. If only and ONLY it was portable. That is the ultimate pragmatic fallacy. You cannot carry an fMRI with you while doing those and other things even if one wanted to.

WCH said:
I wonder if the person who suggested that would submit?

Personally, what's inside my head is the last thing I want revealed.
Click to expand...

If it was portable?! Why! I would never have turned the portable fMRI of mine off! Let everyone see my current brain state. The more they know the better they can estimate. As long as I see theirs I have nothing to hide nor fear.

Besides, fMRI technology is not quite there yet at reading your mind. Findings are more strongly about emotional, and mental states, as well as in disorders. Otherwise cognitive work is mostly done in the upper most thinner layers of the brain who are way too narrow to assign a function per thought yet for most part.

Thus no one may not know what you are thinking. But sure as heck they may know whether you: like, dislike, fear, irritate, or angers you.

Bartender: WCH, want a beer? (looks at your brain scans). Ok, then, which will it be, a Bud or Peja? (looks again). Peja is exported beer from Dardania? No! Ok, here's a Bud. 5$ . Yes, you heard me! Now don't give me that amigdala activity BS! It is 5$ and I opened the bottle! Ok, ok. But I will put it in your tab! I see you like that you cheap bastard!
 
DDD said:
You do realize that this requires research. Currently fMRI scans to detect personality and character disorder is not included in background checks for guns. But we have percentages killings done from them today. Hence once such a policy it is established that includes fMRI in background checks a quantitative research should conclude how much the killings have dropped.

Lastly, the measures would only stop people with character and personality disorders from obtaining a legal gun. They could seek out the illegal market. But then they risk being captured and jailed for that.

With the lack of such a research though I could state that such policies would only allow people with personality and character disorders whom obtained an illegal gun to continue on with their ill intend and commit murder. How much exactly such a percentage is would involve your current number of: psychopaths, sociopaths, mass murderers, implicit murderers, and paranoid schizophrenics, their average kill, and then an estimated drop from there.

For more details apply background checks with fMRI and let us do some research to provide you with final data results. If you then do not like it you can change the policy. It is not like you shall be stuck with it for all eternity!



To the contrary I want to tell you that any drop of percent from what you have should be considered as a positive development. You make it sound like "screening everyone" is a chore. But you just enter an fMRI, hear some laud noises, and get out.

Driving a car also requires one to have a license. Known terrorists cannot enter a plane probably, so there should be some policy about background checks for getting a plane ticket also.



Well I do not mind your critical scrutiny. We here live by those each day. But you need to evaluate whether dropping kills from personality and character disorders is good by making it harder for them to get illegal guns? As well consider the added odds of being arrested by attempting to get illegal guns, would both contribute to common good.
Click to expand...

You are essentially asking everyone to be one of your guinea pigs under the hope of getting enough data to prove this technology and in the hope of finding one person who may be guilty of wanting to act as a psychopath. Is that essentially correct? If someone wants to volunteer to be examined, then that is their business. If you want to make it required upon commitment to a mental institution or a prison, I can understand that too. To screen millions of innocent people in the hopes of finding one bad one based upon unproven, yet perhaps promising technology, is a path I do not want society to take.
 
Somerville said:
Just remember that it was St Ronnie back when he was governor of California who started the closing of state mental institutions primarily for budget reasons. Since so many on the right don't like paying taxes which were once upon a time used to operate mental asylums, it seems highly improbable that any new ones will be opened in the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

Mr Reagan is no Saint in my eyes, Somerville. Never has been. He was nowhere near as Conservative as a lot of people want to make him out to be.

I think there's a better way to run that system, but most of the citizenry would not be pleased with it. A means to operate the system to the betterment of society in general at a reasonable cost, much of which would be borne by the people utilizing the system rather than the public.
 
DDD said:
You know it sounds funny when you say it like. And I appreciate you contributing to my humor :) .

But the way I see it the brain scanning technology would be involved for all that and a lot more. If only and ONLY it was portable. That is the ultimate pragmatic fallacy. You cannot carry an fMRI with you while doing those and other things even if one wanted to.



If it was portable?! Why! I would never have turned the portable fMRI of mine off! Let everyone see my current brain state. The more they know the better they can estimate. As long as I see theirs I have nothing to hide nor fear.

Besides, fMRI technology is not quite there yet at reading your mind. Findings are more strongly about emotional, and mental states, as well as in disorders. Otherwise cognitive work is mostly done in the upper most thinner layers of the brain who are way too narrow to assign a function per thought yet for most part.

Thus no one may not know what you are thinking. But sure as heck they may know whether you: like, dislike, fear, irritate, or angers you.

Bartender: WCH, want a beer? (looks at your brain scans). Ok, then, which will it be, a Bud or Peja? (looks again). Peja is exported beer from Dardania? No! Ok, here's a Bud. 5$ . Yes, you heard me! Now don't give me that amigdala activity BS! It is 5$ and I opened the bottle! Ok, ok. But I will put it in your tab! I see you like that you cheap bastard!
Click to expand...

I don't know if you're an American or not but, we have this thing called the 4th amendment. Your Orwellian machine would likely violate that.

How hard is it to buy a gun in Dardania? BTW
 
I thought everyone was packing heat in Texas?
 
Higgins86 said:
I thought everyone was packing heat in Texas?
Click to expand...

Nope. Just like not all of us here in Massachusetts are pacifist types who will simply hand over our wallets at the slightest show of force. ;)
 
Tigger said:
Nope. Just like not all of us here in Massachusetts are pacifist types who will simply hand over our wallets at the slightest show of force. ;)
Click to expand...

fair point however you are all terrible drivers in Mass ;)
 
Higgins86 said:
fair point however you are all terrible drivers in Mass ;)
Click to expand...

No, that's Rhode Island drivers. Now, get your facts straight! We here in MA are fine drivers. We're just Massholes is all. :2razz:
 
Higgins86 said:
fair point however you are all terrible drivers in Mass ;)
Click to expand...

If you think the Mass drivers are bad, go down to Connecticut (where I'm from). You'll get a whole new appreciation for Massachusetts drivers.
 
PeteEU said:
Texas Shooting Spree Leaves 2 Dead, 5 Wounded

its from Reuters..

When will these terror attacks by common Americans stop?
Click to expand...

tererun said:
This is friggen texas, where were all the heroic gun owners to take down this horrible guy? Oh yeah, ducking for cover while the police did their job. Thank you to the brave police officers who stopped a deadly killing spree and who did their job heroically, and thank you to all the gun owners in the area for owning guns as it seems to have really deterred this criminal. I think it is obvious why I respect police despite some of their less respectable members and actions, and really don't care about the wannabe heroes who think having a gun makes them Wyatt Earp.
Click to expand...

Posts 1 and 4 of a 12 page thread. Pretty sad guys, i'm not seeing a genuine attempt to even invite any sort of civil or reasonable debate. I don't think i'll even bother going any further if this is any indication of what i've got to look forward to.

:peace
 
DDD said:
If fMRI would be included in the background checks he may not have gotten a license to own a legal gun.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously proposing that a MRI should be required in order to purchase a gun? This is the most ridiculous proposal I have ever heard of for gun owners.

Do you really expect this to happen? :lamo
 
Jerry said:
I am one such person, but even in SD I am in the minority.

And I probably would not have fired on a drive-by shooter, either.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have fired unless the shooter was shooting at me. Otherwise there is too many unknowns to just see something happening and start shooting. As a shooter, I am responsible for every round that exits my gun. Accidentally shooting into a house is a major no no and can land a person in custody and could lead to prison.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
You are essentially asking everyone to be one of your guinea pigs under the hope of getting enough data to prove this technology and in the hope of finding one person who may be guilty of wanting to act as a psychopath. Is that essentially correct? If someone wants to volunteer to be examined, then that is their business. If you want to make it required upon commitment to a mental institution or a prison, I can understand that too. To screen millions of innocent people in the hopes of finding one bad one based upon unproven, yet perhaps promising technology, is a path I do not want society to take.
Click to expand...

Not entirely correct. The "millions" you speak of would be Americans who can and want to get a legal gun. The rest do not need to be screened.

Secondly, we would not be searching for one "bad apple" (that can poison a dozen like in Texas), but for millions of: psychopaths, sociopaths, mass murderers, implicit murderers, and paranoid schizophrenics. The goal here is to make it harder to get to legal guns, thus increase the odds of being arrested while purchasing illegal ones.

Thirdly, refer to the second deviation from the intended communication. That there is the goal. Not have an entire US population round of for a crazy experiment just to have a research. Who would do such a thing! Why would you bring this scene up?

The reason I brought up research is because you asked for answers in an area that could be best researched after such a policy would first be put in place. You want more accurate numbers how more the odds would drop if fMRI is involved in background checkes, that research needs to be done after such policies - was my point. Not have a whole nation experimented upon!
 
WCH said:
I don't know if you're an American or not but, we have this thing called the 4th amendment. Your Orwellian machine would likely violate that.

How hard is it to buy a gun in Dardania? BTW
Click to expand...

I am a Dardanian. We have cultural codes related to guns. Even the passage of rite to have a gun makes one a real man for the true followers of the Albanian ancient code (before guns there were other weapons involved). One way to discipline your teenage son is to take away his gun. So we are sons a guns like you also.

We do not have the 4th amendment. Interested person obtains a license to have a gun that is not difficult to get. Then you can purchase one and go practice shooting at newly build areas.

I do not think it is Orwellian since it promotes using of guns for protection while it attempts to inhibit using of guns for murder. It is the "murder" part that I am not alright with that is all.
 
Texmex said:
Are you seriously proposing that a MRI should be required in order to purchase a gun? This is the most ridiculous proposal I have ever heard of for gun owners.

Do you really expect this to happen? :lamo
Click to expand...

Read a few posts behind about "why" I think it would be important to use fMRI scans as background checks. Wise up, wipe your face, and get back to me when you are more serious, ok?
 
PeteEU said:
Texas Shooting Spree Leaves 2 Dead, 5 Wounded

its from Reuters..

When will these terror attacks by common Americans stop?
Click to expand...

May 26 (Reuters) - A gunman randomly firing from his pickup truck killed one person and wounded five, including the sheriff of Concho County, Texas, on Sunday before the suspect was killed in a shootout with law enforcement, officials said.
Click to expand...

Those god fearing, gun toting Texans waited for law enforcement to show up and take this guy out?

Had this happened in California, I could see having to wait, along with a diatribe or two about how liberal California needs more gun toters, but in Texas? Don't they have enough armed citizens to stop this sort of thing before it even starts?
 
DDD said:
Read a few posts behind about "why" I think it would be important to use fMRI scans as background checks. Wise up, wipe your face, and get back to me when you are more serious, ok?
Click to expand...

This idea of yours is not only ignorant, but absolutely something that would be impossible to do. Thankfully BS like this will never be implemented. I imagine the strongest support will be from MRI manufacturers and technicians to operate the new machines. As far as widespread support among the thinking public is concerned, I doubt you will find much support there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom