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Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

Jredbaron96 said:
Who would've disciplined them? The Scout Masters who had the obligation to make the kid quit if he was gay?

This whole rule was completely against what I learned as a scout. What gender you like doesn't change how good of a person you are. There was no moral position on this. Just ignorance.
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If you mean the scout master who is supposed to be teaching the fundamental principles of the oath then yes, him.

If the kid hadn't done anything overt to express his sexual preference then it was the other kids that were creating the problem and that's unacceptable.
 
a351 said:
If that were the case one could only wonder why they felt the need to enact these policies in the first place. Also, if little has changed in your estimation, what's the explanation for the wailing and weeping on your part?
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Like I said, my complaint is that this creates a "special" bloc in the unit. It's a shortcut to "respect" that the other kids don't get and instead of instilling the principles by which one earns respect it shows the kids that there is always a way to cop out and get something for free that others have to earn.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Great news.

I never understood the ban. Gay boys can certainly be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.
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It's an organization that prides itself on upholding tradition. Kind of obvious why it would be initially resistant to social change*.

*the vast improvements the gay right's movement has made in just the past 10 years is rather astounding in it's pace
 
Bonzai said:
Somebody I used to know used to mess around with this albino straight guy who no girls wanted to go near because of his, er, lack of pigmentation.............That's a true mercy fu..................
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And that ranks right up there with some of the most useless stuff I have seen posted on this site.
 
Lutherf said:
And that ranks right up there with some of the most useless stuff I have seen posted on this site.
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I'm not trying to "convert" you, so why would I say anything useful ?...................
 
Jredbaron96 said:
What the hell are you going on about? When I was in the Scouts, we had an incident where one of the kids at our Summer Camp was rumored to be gay. He got a lot of **** for it, people making fun of him stuff like that.
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Can you imagine, a bunch of teenagers giving someone flack for being different?

Besides being a rather common trend in everyone's youth, you might be confusing the reaction from his peers with a ban on participation. The former is not the later, and something the scouts have little control over
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Who would've disciplined them? The Scout Masters who had the obligation to make the kid quit if he was gay?

This whole rule was completely against what I learned as a scout. What gender you like doesn't change how good of a person you are. There was no moral position on this. Just ignorance.
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kids teasing someone for being gay isn't the same as the kid actually being gay (as you even outlined in your original post). Any competent scoutmaster/person can easily recognize this
 
The reality is this is the beginning of the end for the BSA. The activist that pushed for this will next push to end gender based scouting all together and put the boy scouts and girl scouts in one group called the scouts. These people hate everything the BSA stands for and their intent is to destroy or at least fundamentally change the entire organization.
 
Ikari said:
When will they allow atheists? I guess this proves that being gay is better than being an atheist in this country.
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Depends on your metric. The perception against being an atheist might be worse in general public opinion that being gay, but I'm not aware of any specific rights you are denied.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Can you imagine, a bunch of teenagers giving someone flack for being different?

Besides being a rather common trend in everyone's youth, you might be confusing the reaction from his peers with a ban on participation. The former is not the later, and something the scouts have little control over
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They do have the power to require that scouts adhere to:
Boy Scout Law

A Scout is:
•Trustworthy,
•Loyal,
•Helpful,
•Friendly,
•Courteous,
•Kind,
•Obedient,
•Cheerful,
•Thrifty,
•Brave,
•Clean,
•and Reverent
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Giving someone flack would seem to be in violation of several parts of the BSA's "law"
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The reality is this is the beginning of the end for the BSA. The activist that pushed for this will next push to end gender based scouting all together and put the boy scouts and girl scouts in one group called the scouts. These people hate everything the BSA stands for and their intent is to destroy or at least fundamentally change the entire organization.
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ORRRRRR some people love the Scouting principles just not the rather out dated traditions and some would say, good ol' fashioned bigotry. I can see a day where it is Scouts and not divided by sex, well at least outside the tents! :shock:
 
I'm not so much against gays being admitted as I am allowing an ultra liberal demographic into a conservative organization.

I'm glad that the scouts made the decision on their own but I wonder how long until the experience is ruined by political correctness. It almost seems inevitable that hard work and achievement will give way to quotas and an "everyone needs to be an Eagle Scout" mentality.
 
sangha said:
They do have the power to require that scouts adhere to
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No ****, and this would be relevant if I was suggesting that the kids teasing this person shouldn't be disciplined. But my point was kids tease each other
 
Dapper Andy said:
I'm not so much against gays being admitted as I am allowing an ultra liberal demographic into a conservative organization.

I'm glad that the scouts made the decision on their own but I wonder how long until the experience is ruined by political correctness. It almost seems inevitable that hard work and achievement will give way to quotas and an "everyone needs to be an Eagle Scout" mentality.
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Because homosexuals, basically being a negative people, will only have negative effects on things.............The people here are just pathetic.....................
 
Henrin said:
Logical flow.

Everyone has the right to associate with who they please.
Everyone has the right to property which includes the right to control access
Everyone has a right to their own labor.

When the government makes laws telling people they must associate with someone they are violating their right to association.
When the government tells people they must allow someone on their property or allow them to stay on their property they are violating their right to property
When the government tells people they must do business with someone they are making that person a involuntary servant of the other person and such violating the 13th amendment.
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So no court precedent to quote, just your opinion of what is flowing is 'logic'?

So in this case, not vague stream of 'logic', the courts have ruled a business has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, such as race, sex, or orientation?

Has the court ruled that if a diner open to the public refuses to make a sammich for a black guy that is Constitutional?

Did I miss a whole slew of recent court rulings?
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
No ****, and this would be relevant if I was suggesting that the kids teasing this person shouldn't be disciplined. But my point was kids tease each other
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You didn't merely suggest, but you outright claimed that BSA had little control over whether their scouts gave each other "flack"

Now, you're claiming that BSA can discipline those teens.
 
Sherman123 said:
Depends on your metric. The perception against being an atheist might be worse in general public opinion that being gay, but I'm not aware of any specific rights you are denied.
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It's hard to deny us when we have no real external signs of what we are. Muuuwwaahahahahahahahahahahahaah
 
Bonzai said:
Because homosexuals, basically being a negative people, will only have negative effects on things.............The people here are just pathetic.....................
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That's clearly not what I said.

The BSA is generally a more conservative organization whereas homosexuals are generally an ultra liberal demographic group.

Homosexuals, particularly young homosexuals, are probably the most liberal demographic there is.

Part of what makes scouting so appealing to the conservatives that have made up the organization for generations is the belief that hard work and dedication is the route to success. Right or wrong, this is a belief liberals tend to reject. They tend to see success as being the result of the proper skin pigmentation and how wealthy one's parents are. I'm not against letting gays into scouts but I wonder how long before the requirements to become an Eagle Scout are modified because it is suddenly culturally biased or single parent households can't take time off to do all the activities.
 
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sangha said:
You didn't merely suggest, but you outright claimed that BSA had little control over whether their scouts gave each other "flack"
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I was speaking of his peers ( you know, kids in general). And outside of scouting functions, they do have little control
 
Dapper Andy said:
That's clearly not what I said.

The BSA is generally a more conservative organization whereas homosexuals are generally an ultra liberal demographic group.

Homosexuals, particularly young homosexuals, are probably the most liberal demographic there is.

Part of what makes scouting so appealing to the conservatives that have made up the organization for generations is the belief that hard work and dedication is the route to success. Right or wrong, this is a belief liberals tend to reject. They tend to see success as being the result of the proper skin pigmentation and how wealth one's parents are. I'm not against letting gays into scouts but I wonder how long before the requirements to become an Eagle Scout are modified because it is suddenly culturally biased or single parent households can't take time off to do all the activities.
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Don't get me wrong. I understand the need for propriety. Besides, I'd rather be a towel in a men's water polo lockeroom than a cub scout anyday....................
 
notquiteright said:
So no court precedent to quote, just your opinion of what is flowing is 'logic'?

So in this case, not vague stream of 'logic', the courts have ruled a business has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, such as race, sex, or orientation?

Has the court ruled that if a diner open to the public refuses to make a sammich for a black guy that is Constitutional?

Did I miss a whole slew of recent court rulings?
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So your argument is not one of reason, but simply one of appealing to authority? Would you like to try something that isn't a fallacy?

Perhaps you would like to argue against my logic with logic of your own?
 
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