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Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

sangha said:
Did you know that the BSA's decision was not forced by any anti-discrimination laws?
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Indeed. Your point? The right to association and the right to property still allows them to decide access and allows them to do business with whomever they please. Your cries about discrimination are crying about something that is a protected right.
 
Lutherf said:
When the hell will we get past this idiocy of having to embrace every damned proclivity a person might have? There have been gays in the BSA probably forever. I don't recall ever seeing "gender identity and/or sexual preference" on any of the applications. If you were in the scouts and you were gay and you kept it to yourself then there never was a problem. If, however, you decided to make it an issue then you were being disruptive and you were out. The same applied to people who made their religion an issue or made their ethnicity an issue.

When I was in the service it was the same way. I can't imagine that some percentage of the guys I served with weren't gay but they didn't make it an issue so it wasn't a problem. What counts is what you do with your life and how you conduct yourself, not your damned "gender identity". That's your own personal thing to deal with and I don't need to know about it.

Why the hell should I have to respect you just because you're queer? What makes you so damned special that you can just circumvent all the other crap that goes into EARNING respect?

This wasn't a courageous decision by the scouts. It was acquiescing to popular opinion. This wasn't loyalty to ones principles. It was utter abandonment of those principles.
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Conservatives are merely reaping what they've sown these last 40 years........................
 
Are there really that many gay boys that want to be Boy Scouts? Do gay boys want to hike into the wilderness, pitch tents, camp out with no modern conveniences, build camp fires etc? I just don't think so, most would rather be shopping or cooking in a nice kitchen so it is really a non issue.
 
Henrin said:
Did you know that all anti-discrimination laws breach the right to association and violate the thirteen amendment? No? Well, you do now. Many of them breach the right to property as well, obviously.

Like it or not, people have the right to associate and do business with who they want.
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Is that your opinion or a court tested fact? Best I can recall the business doesn't have a right to refuse customers due to race, ethnicity, and a long rather well known list.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Are there really that many gay boys that want to be Boy Scouts? Do gay boys want to hike into the wilderness, pitch tents, camp out with no modern conveniences, build camp fires etc? I just don't think so, most would rather be shopping or cooking in a nice kitchen so it is really a non issue.
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I know a gay guy who can pitch the biggest tent you've ever seen.
 
notquiteright said:
Is that your opinion or a court tested fact? Best I can recall the business doesn't have a right to refuse customers due to race, ethnicity, and a long rather well known list.
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Logical flow.

Everyone has the right to associate with who they please.
Everyone has the right to property which includes the right to control access
Everyone has a right to their own labor.

When the government makes laws telling people they must associate with someone they are violating their right to association.
When the government tells people they must allow someone on their property or allow them to stay on their property they are violating their right to property
When the government tells people they must do business with someone they are making that person a involuntary servant of the other person and such violating the 13th amendment.
 
Lutherf said:
When the hell will we get past this idiocy of having to embrace every damned proclivity a person might have? There have been gays in the BSA probably forever. I don't recall ever seeing "gender identity and/or sexual preference" on any of the applications. If you were in the scouts and you were gay and you kept it to yourself then there never was a problem. If, however, you decided to make it an issue then you were being disruptive and you were out. The same applied to people who made their religion an issue or made their ethnicity an issue.

When I was in the service it was the same way. I can't imagine that some percentage of the guys I served with weren't gay but they didn't make it an issue so it wasn't a problem. What counts is what you do with your life and how you conduct yourself, not your damned "gender identity". That's your own personal thing to deal with and I don't need to know about it.

Why the hell should I have to respect you just because you're queer? What makes you so damned special that you can just circumvent all the other crap that goes into EARNING respect?

This wasn't a courageous decision by the scouts. It was acquiescing to popular opinion. This wasn't loyalty to ones principles. It was utter abandonment of those principles.
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What the hell are you going on about? When I was in the Scouts, we had an incident where one of the kids at our Summer Camp was rumored to be gay. He got a lot of **** for it, people making fun of him stuff like that.

Guess what happened last day of camp? His family showed up, with his girlfriend. All of that just because he acted differently.

There is nothing wrong with a scout being gay. What we did have was an environment that treated it like it was some major problem. We asked boys who probably had a hard enough time being gay as it was subvert who they are, and for what? ****ing nothing.

This was **** rule. No 'morals' or principles about it. Just plain ****.
 
Henrin said:
Indeed. Your point? The right to association and the right to property still allows them to decide access and allows them to do business with whomever they please. Your cries about discrimination are crying about something that is a protected right.
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Freedom of speech is a protected right to. BSA is not protected from complaints of how they discriminate and those complaints do not deny them their right to associate.

BSA decided to associate with gay scouts. Deal with it
 
notquiteright said:
Is that your opinion or a court tested fact? Best I can recall the business doesn't have a right to refuse customers due to race, ethnicity, and a long rather well known list.
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AFAIK, there is no federal law prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation aside from prohibiting it by the federal govt.
 
sangha said:
Freedom of speech is a protected right to. BSA is not protected from complaints of how they discriminate and those complaints do not deny them their right to associate.

BSA decided to associate with gay scouts. Deal with it
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I have no problem with any of that. That has nothing to do with my point.
 
Oh, sweet Jesus, save us from the worldwide conspiracy of florists, fashionistas, and upper class au pairs..................Oh, the humanity....................
 
Lutherf said:
Why the hell should I have to respect you just because you're queer? What makes you so damned special that you can just circumvent all the other crap that goes into EARNING respect?
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Hysterics aside, nothing in this decision would alter the chosen criteria and standards of the BSA. What you see as somehow preferential is in fact merely an opportunity (or rather, should be) to live up to said same standards without the taint of preconceived notions.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
What the hell are you going on about? When I was in the Scouts, we had an incident where one of the kids at our Summer Camp was rumored to be gay. He got a lot of **** for it, people making fun of him stuff like that.

Guess what happened last day of camp? His family showed up, with his girlfriend. All of that just because he acted differently.

There is nothing wrong with a scout being gay. What we did have was an environment that treated it like it was some major problem. We asked boys who probably had a hard enough time being gay as it was subvert who they are, and for what? ****ing nothing.

This was **** rule. No 'morals' or principles about it. Just plain ****.
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What you are describing is a discipline problem not a sexual preference problem.
 
a351 said:
Hysterics aside, nothing in this decision would alter the chosen criteria and standards of the BSA. What you see as somehow preferential is in fact merely an opportunity (or rather, should be) to live up to said same standards without the taint of preconceived notions.
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What "preconceived notions"? There weren't any before!

Look, if little Jimmy is getting **** because he hit on Johnny then the issue shouldn't be whether one, the other or both is gay. It should be that it's a damned scout meeting not Match.com.
 
Question: How many kids in the US today over 16 want to be "scouts" anyway anymore ?................................
 
Lutherf said:
What "preconceived notions"? There weren't any before!
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If that were the case one could only wonder why they felt the need to enact these policies in the first place. Also, if little has changed in your estimation, what's the explanation for the wailing and weeping on your part?
 
Lutherf said:
What "preconceived notions"? There weren't any before!

Look, if little Jimmy is getting **** because he hit on Johnny then the issue shouldn't be whether one, the other or both is gay. It should be that it's a damned scout meeting not Match.com.
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Somebody I used to know used to mess around with this albino straight guy who no girls wanted to go near because of his, er, lack of pigmentation.............That's a true mercy fu..................
 
Lutherf said:
What you are describing is a discipline problem not a sexual preference problem.
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Who would've disciplined them? The Scout Masters who had the obligation to make the kid quit if he was gay?

This whole rule was completely against what I learned as a scout. What gender you like doesn't change how good of a person you are. There was no moral position on this. Just ignorance.
 
Stewart said:
So what happens when these scouts turn 18 in are few years?
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Popular "science" in America says that if they prayed really, really hard till then--------Abra Cadabra.........On their 18th birthday they will wake up straight..................Isn't life wonderful ?.......................
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Who would've disciplined them? The Scout Masters who had the obligation to make the kid quit if he was gay?

This whole rule was completely against what I learned as a scout. What gender you like doesn't change how good of a person you are. There was no moral position on this. Just ignorance.
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Very nicely said
 
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