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'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

It's moronic that people still don't understand why the US continues to be attacked. It's our foreign policy.

What's it like walking around without a spine to support you?

It's completely moronic not to see the cultural and religious overtones of these attacks. These attacks aren't coming from South American Hindus or Asian Jews. There's not a rogue Christian band of worldwide terrorists in Fiji.

Open your ****ing eyes.
 
Please elaborate on that.
Were they American? FAIL
WHy...dont you know? Those Indonesian schoolgirls were oppressing Muslims. Answer that? Seriously? You should be embarrassed or ashamed of your response and probably both.
 
WHy...dont you know? Those Indonesian schoolgirls were oppressing Muslims. Answer that? Seriously?

Cycle of violence. I asked you to answer why they decided to kill schoolgirls. In retaliation for what exactly? This crime is no more heinous than us murdering thousands of innocent Iraqi's because of 9/11. They had nothing to do with 9/11 and yet they were murdered anyways.

You should be embarrassed or ashamed of your response and probably both.

I'll do that as soon as you shed tears for the thousands and thousands of innocent Muslims we've murdered over the last 2 decades.
 
What's it like walking around without a spine to support you?

It's completely moronic not to see the cultural and religious overtones of these attacks. These attacks aren't coming from South American Hindus or Asian Jews. There's not a rogue Christian band of worldwide terrorists in Fiji.

Open your ****ing eyes.

I see you are also in that category of "people who don't understand how US foreign policy causes hatred and animosity towards the US in the Muslim world." Please educate yourself.
 
It's moronic that people still don't understand why the US continues to be attacked. It's our foreign policy.

Yeah! That's it. :roll:
 
Anti-abortion
violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




No one yelled "In the name of Christ!" when these acts were committed, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a Christian attack.

Terrorism is terrorism is terrorism. It's not a solely Islamic thing. It's the radicalization and ignorance that pushes often benign beliefs into something horribly evil.

There is no comparison between religions.

Even without the terror attacks the Muslim religion subjegates woman on a international scale, is anti democratic and anti-freedom...unless your'e a man that is.

The attacks against women that happen in places like Saudi Arabia on a daily basis are never counted.

So post some obscure irrelevent data to try and push the false Narrative that " all religions have terrorist in theit midst".

It's just not true.
 
For my tastes? How about not vocal at all.. I'm sorry but I love my country and way of life. When beheadings start happening in the streets randomly, I say it's insane NOT to do anything!

I agree. It is insane to not do anything.

Those responsible should be aprehended, prosecuted according to whatever law has jurisdiction, and punished if they're found guilty.

Doing anything more than that, like blowing an isolated incident completly out of proportion and blaming it on an entire race, religion, or region, is equally insance.
 
I see you are also in that category of "people who don't understand how US foreign
policy causes hatred and animosity towards the US in the Muslim world." Please educate yourself.

Oh Bull Sh**. How about you realize the real reason we're being attacked.

Educate yourself.
 
WHy...dont you know? Those Indonesian schoolgirls were oppressing Muslims. Answer that? Seriously? You should be embarrassed or ashamed of your response and probably both.

Intriguingly sympathetic, eh?
 
I see you are also in that category of "people who don't understand how US foreign policy causes hatred and animosity towards the US in the Muslim world." Please educate yourself.

And you tell al-Zawahiri we're coming for him.
 
Gawd we can play this game all day long and well into the night, MG. As far as peace loving Muslims, I say it's TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED!!!!!!!!!! If you say nothing, to me you're complicit, or at least tacitly to blame!


Tim-

Yes, people keep saying this, but I no longer take it seriously.

There are lots of them. One of the more prominent is an Afghan MP named Malalai Joya. She has been a vocal and outspoken critic of the Taliban...and of our allies, the "Northern Alliance" (who are ideologically identical to the Taliban...except currently obedient to Western demands).

She is a committed secularist and feminist, who has literally risked her life standing up for Afghan women, children, minorities, and on and on.

She's currently in hiding, I believe...because her criticism of a fellow MP (again...our friends and allies)means some now want her dead for speaking up.

So people like her exist, and there are a lot of them...however, Joya has gotten relatively little attention here...because her opposition to tyranny places her on the wrong side of us.

How ironic, yes?
 
Does it have to play a part for it to be terror?

Didn't you say in post number 73:
Naw they use guns to up guns and kill children...

in response to SgtRock's posting in number 61:
Right because Christians here in America and in Europe are hacking people to death and blowing up sporting events for Jesus...

You obviously were accusing Christians of killing the Newtown children. Don't now try to claim innocence.

BTW, if you really want to compare the history of Christianity and try to claim that it is as violent as Islam, be my guest. I don't buy it.
 
London will ultimately be the proving ground for the Muslim/Islamist radical blame game for terrorism.

In 10-20 years, Muslims will outnumber Christians and Whites in the U.K. Then, we'll see. Will the Islamic community step forward and defend Christians, Hindus, etc, and the white English community?
 
This topic is extremely frustrating because I find there is so much disingenuousness on the subject because it makes people uncomfortable.

Let me state for the record that I'm an ardent secularist, my mentor is a Saudi exile, and I'm a strong supporter of democratic movements in the Middle East--from Bahrain to Syria. But for the love of god can we stop pretending that Islam is relatively comparable to Judaism or Christianity in terms of its influence, impact, and levels of adherence.

As a Jew I'm always amazed at this willful obfuscation. The Torah, Talmud, and Midrash are palpably violent, draconian, and primitive codes of law and morality. However is Judaism violent? No, because Judaism went on a different historical arc that cut the tether to the ancient interpretations and practition of its faith. The diaspora and legal prohibitions forced a reliance on literacy, while perpetual minority status dampened the legislative aggressiveness of rabbinical courts and interpretation. Lack of a physical Israel shifted theological discussions away from law, justice, politics, and war, and toward familial and social considerations. I could go on and on.

The reason I bring it up is that Islam and Judaism are actually fairly similar religions, moreso than Christianity in that the point of both faiths in their original and orthodox form is to proscribe a code for living and governing every facet of life from cradle to government to the grave. So what is the difference between the two faiths today?

I think it has everything to do with the obvious fact that Islam has never become separated from the state, it is a holistic religion in a part of the world that never had the kind of confrontation with the enlightenment that Christianity had. And quite frankly Christianity as a fairly malleable religion (it does not prescribe rules for government, life, or law) was probably one of the best faiths in terms of digesting that fight. But Islam did not and has not.

The orthodoxy of Islam is generally unreformed and this remains a serious problem since it is less amenable to liberalization and reform. Why? Because how do you reform a divinely directed legal code? I think it is huge problem to try and equivocate because it obscures very real and very significant problems and discussions.

Violence from the Islamic world is not a circumscribed phenomena. Sure you may 'only' have a few hundred thousand militants, terrorists, and paramilitary affiliates across the globe. But you have hundreds of millions of sympathizers (all at varying degrees) and an obvious sociopolitical worldview that is in direct conflict with the forms of liberalism that have taken root in Europe, America, South America, and broad sections of Africa and East Asia.

Pretending that there isn't an ongoing conflict between Islam and modernity and that this conflict isn't producing violence at unique levels is nothing more than willful denial.
 
London will ultimately be the proving ground for the Muslim/Islamist radical blame game for terrorism.

In 10-20 years, Muslims will outnumber Christians and Whites in the U.K. Then, we'll see. Will the Islamic community step forward and defend Christians, Hindus, etc, and the white English community?

Why would the 'whiteness' matter? If the premise is that you have a problem with a religious takeover why do you insist on using racial terminology? The problem is the defense of secularism and liberal values. Skin color is and should be irrelevant.
 
Yes, people keep saying this, but I no longer take it seriously.

There are lots of them. One of the more prominent is an Afghan MP named Malalai Joya. She has been a vocal and outspoken critic of the Taliban...and of our allies, the "Northern Alliance" (who are ideologically identical to the Taliban...except currently obedient to Western demands).

She is a committed secularist and feminist, who has literally risked her life standing up for Afghan women, children, minorities, and on and on.

She's currently in hiding, I believe...because her criticism of a fellow MP (again...our friends and allies)means some now want her dead for speaking up.

So people like her exist, and there are a lot of them...however, Joya has gotten relatively little attention here...because her opposition to tyranny places her on the wrong side of us.

How ironic, yes?

She hasn't received much attention because she is an Afghan MP. In the context of a planets worth of news that does not rank very highly. Fawzia Koofi who has been very critical of ISAF did a book tour in the US and had an appearance on the Daily Show because she wrote a book and she is saying she will run for President in 2014. This aroused attention and garnered interest. Jumping to conspiratorial explanations rarely pays off.
 
This topic is extremely frustrating because I find there is so much disingenuousness on the subject because it makes people uncomfortable.

Let me state for the record that I'm an ardent secularist, my mentor is a Saudi exile, and I'm a strong supporter of democratic movements in the Middle East--from Bahrain to Syria. But for the love of god can we stop pretending that Islam is relatively comparable to Judaism or Christianity in terms of its influence, impact, and levels of adherence.

As a Jew I'm always amazed at this willful obfuscation. The Torah, Talmud, and Midrash are palpably violent, draconian, and primitive codes of law and morality. However is Judaism violent? No, because Judaism went on a different historical arc that cut the tether to the ancient interpretations and practition of its faith. The diaspora and legal prohibitions forced a reliance on literacy, while perpetual minority status dampened the legislative aggressiveness of rabbinical courts and interpretation. Lack of a physical Israel shifted theological discussions away from law, justice, politics, and war, and toward familial and social considerations. I could go on and on.

The reason I bring it up is that Islam and Judaism are actually fairly similar religions, moreso than Christianity in that the point of both faiths in their original and orthodox form is to proscribe a code for living and governing every facet of life from cradle to government to the grave. So what is the difference between the two faiths today?

I think it has everything to do with the obvious fact that Islam has never become separated from the state, it is a holistic religion in a part of the world that never had the kind of confrontation with the enlightenment that Christianity had. And quite frankly Christianity as a fairly malleable religion (it does not prescribe rules for government, life, or law) was probably one of the best faiths in terms of digesting that fight. But Islam did not and has not.

The orthodoxy of Islam is generally unreformed and this remains a serious problem since it is less amenable to liberalization and reform. Why? Because how do you reform a divinely directed legal code? I think it is huge problem to try and equivocate because it obscures very real and very significant problems and discussions.

Violence from the Islamic world is not a circumscribed phenomena. Sure you may 'only' have a few hundred thousand militants, terrorists, and paramilitary affiliates across the globe. But you have hundreds of millions of sympathizers (all at varying degrees) and an obvious sociopolitical worldview that is in direct conflict with the forms of liberalism that have taken root in Europe, America, South America, and broad sections of Africa and East Asia.

Pretending that there isn't an ongoing conflict between Islam and modernity and that this conflict isn't producing violence at unique levels is nothing more than willful denial.

Could it be that the more conservative and traditionalists in the Islamic world are facing a culture shock and are trying to isolate themselves away from the west and modernity, but it cannot due to the globalization and the internets ability to open up the world?
 
Could it be that the more conservative and traditionalists in the Islamic world are facing a culture shock and are trying to isolate themselves away from the west and modernity, but it cannot due to the globalization and the internets ability to open up the world?

That is definitely happening, but I think that we have a really bad habit of pretending as though this is just a small segment of the population. It isn't just a few thousand members of the Ulema and their families, it is much broader portions of society that adhere to these beliefs or endorse this backlash.

Once again though I firmly support democratic movements in these countries and still have hopes for the future of Egypt.
 
That is definitely happening, but I think that we have a really bad habit of pretending as though this is just a small segment of the population. It isn't just a few thousand members of the Ulema and their families, it is much broader portions of society that adhere to these beliefs or endorse this backlash.

Once again though I firmly support democratic movements in these countries and still have hopes for the future of Egypt.

But is it true that a large part of Indonesia's population Islamic? You never hear unrest coming from there? Are they more accepting of secularism, or is it somthing different.

Islam is the second largest religious faith and I don't believe all Muslims live the Middle East.
 
Didn't you say in post number 73:


in response to SgtRock's posting in number 61:


You obviously were accusing Christians of killing the Newtown children. Don't now try to claim innocence.

BTW, if you really want to compare the history of Christianity and try to claim that it is as violent as Islam, be my guest. I don't buy it.

The guy who did Newtown was a Christian.. hence it was a Christian terror attack. That he invoked his religion or not, is frankly irrelevant since it was terror regardless.
 
That is definitely happening, but I think that we have a really bad habit of pretending as though this is just a small segment of the population. It isn't just a few thousand members of the Ulema and their families, it is much broader portions of society that adhere to these beliefs or endorse this backlash.

Once again though I firmly support democratic movements in these countries and still have hopes for the future of Egypt.

But is it true that a large part of Indonesia's population Islamic? You never hear unrest coming from there? Are they more accepting of secularism, or is it somthing different.

Islam is the second largest religious faith and I don't believe all Muslims live the Middle East.
 
10,000 terror attacks, 1.4 billion Muslims... .0001% of the population. Sounds about right.

that diesn't make the .0001% anything other than Islamist terrorist attacks.
 
She hasn't received much attention because she is an Afghan MP. In the context of a planets worth of news that does not rank very highly. Fawzia Koofi who has been very critical of ISAF did a book tour in the US and had an appearance on the Daily Show because she wrote a book and she is saying she will run for President in 2014. This aroused attention and garnered interest. Jumping to conspiratorial explanations rarely pays off.

There's no conspiracy. Rather, I suggest an (admittedly rough) institutional analysis of the difference in reception of these two women is the proper way to understand the disparity. It's a good test case, because the similarities between the women are obvious.

Joya too has received some attention; after being banished (for harshly criticizing a warlord) several Parliamentarians, from Canada, Italy, and elsewhere, have issued calls for her reinstatement.

She was named one of Time Magazine's 100 most influential people of the year.

And that would seem to contradict my point...and yet...she remains a shadow figure, less known than other high-profile Muslim women who, similarly, have battled Islamist Orthodoxy. And I would suggest it's because of a single crucial difference:

Unlike Koofi, who has remained mostly silent on the behaviour of the NATO allies--and moreso unlike Aayan Hirsi Ali, who is openly hawkish, even joining the AEI--Joya is vocally critical, even condemnatory, about NATO's actions, and particularly about US foreign policy.

Even the Time piece was singularly telling: each "influential person" got a paragraph extolling their virtues, a little puff-piece explaining their munificence.

Joya's--alone!--was a mixed review, underlining her courage and tenacity but wondering how she could say such mean things...about us! God forfend. Hell, even Sarah Palin was spared this sort of critique in the lineup.

So ok, a small matter, but I think an instructive one.

And I believe in the larger sense, those most critical of Western power are far more likley to be sidelined than, say, one who joins the AEI in declaring the need for militaristic American imperialism. (It does, you know!)

Criticizing tactics and strategy is ok, and fits within the properly-defined parameters; fundamental critiques are anathema, and even considered "loony" (the preferred nomenclature).

And I'm not deriding Ali, who has shown terrific bravery as well...though I consider her credulity to the beneficience of American military might to be a sort of religious belief in itself, a kind of secular faith in the State that is puzzling to me.

And certainly there are exceptions; some very harsh critics find a willing public ear; but as a general rule, appeals to adolescent nationalism and Western Good Intentions (while scant on evidence) is a more likely path to fame...and subsequent accolades.

So that's my take on it. I don't believe there's the faintest whiff of conspiracy to any of it.
 
Why would the 'whiteness' matter? If the premise is that you have a problem with a religious takeover why do you insist on using racial terminology? The problem is the defense of secularism and liberal values. Skin color is and should be irrelevant.

It shouldn't matter, but I think it will. But I'll concede this will be far more about religion. No way do I see a 50+ percent Muslim community living in peace with a less than 50 percent Christian/Jewish community there. Christians are leaving the Middle East in droves right now, what's left of them.
 
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