'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

The Prof said:

good morning, polgara! it is an absolute, sincere pleaasure to see your wonderfully smiling face this beautiful (here in the northern california east bay) morning, you impress me as one of the sunniest and most peacefully disposed individuals anyone is lucky enough to call friend, the prof isn't, he is a pissy old septuagenarian who disdains all personal contact here for the purpose of business, but for a gentleman like you the overplied prof must make exception...

peace and love, sir, keep up the outstanding work



cliff

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Waving flags and chanting, far-right marchers rallied in northern England on Saturday, their numbers apparently swelled by anger over the slaying of a British soldier allegedly by attackers who claimed an Islamist motive.

Protesters on the march organized by the far-right English Defence League told CNN that Wednesday's horror in southeast London's Woolwich neighborhood had opened their eyes and called for Muslims to leave.

It was in Woolwich that Lee Rigby was hit by a car, then hacked to death by two men -- one of whom sought out a camera to justify the killing as "an eye for an eye," saying it was "because Muslims are dying daily."

Those two men are now under guard in South London hospitals after being shot in a confrontation with police. Three additional men were arrested Saturday on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder, according to police.

Addressing the crowd Saturday in Newcastle, EDL leader Tommy Robinson said that Rigby's killing should be a wake-up call to British citizens.

"We cannot allow this soldier's death to be in vain," Robinson said. "We are the only ones who dare say it. When did the truth become hate speech?"

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ernst barkmann said:

Taliban
(طالبان)
Participant in Civil war in Afghanistan; War in Afghanistan
Flag of the Taliban
A flag used by the Taliban from 1997 to 2001
Active 1979-1994 (assisting mujahideen)
1994–1996 (militia)
1996–2001 (government)
2004–present (insurgency)
Ideology Islamism
Islamic fundamentalism
Takfiri
Strict Sharia law
Pashtun nationalism
Leaders Mullah Mohammed Omar (founder and spiritual leader)[1]
Area of
operations Afghanistan and northwest Pakistan
Strength 45,000 (2001 est.)[2]
11,000 (2008 est.)[3]
36,000 (2010 est.)[4]
Originated as Students of Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam
Allies Haqqani network
Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin
Islamic Emirate of Waziristan
Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
East Turkestan Islamic Movement
Al-Qaeda
Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi
Jamaat-e-Islami
Caucasian Front[5]
Opponents Afghanistan Islamic Republic of Afghanistan
International Security Assistance For

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Quik said:

It's moronic that people still don't understand why the US continues to be attacked. It's our foreign policy.

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If I am an aggressor and I punch you in the nose, we are in a fight, even if you weren’t looking for a fight. The fight does not end just because you insist you’re not in a fight. The fight ends because you lose. Your ostentatious display of not having a quarrel with me does not convince me to stop hitting you — although it may convince me to keep hitting you.

Islamic supremacism is not based on a lie. It is based on a truth. That truth has nothing to do with the United States — although it has grave consequences for us.

This is elucidated by the jihadist atrocity in Britain just the day before Obama’s speech. Even after all the mass murders we’ve seen over the last two decades, this one was shocking in its barbarity.

After killing and mutilating a British soldier, one of the jihadists, blood still soaking his hands, proudly looked into a camera and proclaimed, “We are forced by the Koran, in Sura al-Tawba, through many ayah in the Koran, we must fight them as they fight us.”

Sura al-Tawba is the Koran’s ninth chapter, home to what are known as the verses of the sword. Time after time, Muslims are instructed to slaughter their enemies. “Kill the polytheists wherever you find them.” “Fight those who do not believe in Allah” until they submit to the law of Islam. “Fight . . . the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness.” On it goes.

Naturally, most Western media reports omitted any mention of the jihadists’ explanation of their doctrine and its easily verifiable scriptural underpinnings — just as Obama, in his speech, eschewed any mention of the Koran in describing the “larger cause” for which “extremists” fight. But though the supremacist’s construction is not the only viable interpretation of Islam, it is a genuine, literal one.

Obama

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RabidAlpaca said:

Exactly. Homeboy Chuckles refuses to accept that they've been around prior to 1994. He didn't really argue out of genuine belief, but rather to avoid answering my point.

At least you are able to read.

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Dr. Chuckles said:

Ignoring academics and relying on Wikipedia is pretty foolish

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zimmer said:

Really... After assisting Muslims before 911... in the Balkans and Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, in Afghanistan against the Soviets... we deserved 911, and the rest of the feces from the Religion of Peace?

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The problems is we have a bunch of nuts and a "religion" that feeds them. And folks like you add to the problem.

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Where is all the outrage from Muslims? Where is the push back within? I don't see it, and haven't seen it in the last 12-years.

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RabidAlpaca said:

You've quoted one writer, but it doesn't really matter.

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I'm not really interested in you dragging the conversation further off topic simply because you don't want to form a rebuttal to my position.

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Quik said:

We bombed the **** out of them, did you forget?



LMFAO! Have you heard of the Soviet War in Afghanistan, the Mujahideen, and the resulting power vacuum that was left after Soviet troops withdrew? Is this some kind of joke? You can't be serious right now right?



All over the Middle East. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Nobody would have approved of the invasion of a European country after 9/11. Muslim country like Iraq? No problem!



And what is the "moral" or "ethical" argument you have for killing innocent Muslims? I guess I'm just like 3 steps ahead of you so I will try to slow it down a bit.

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One of the suspected killers who attempted to behead and disembowel a young soldier in the horrific Woolwich attack had listened to the preachings of a radical Muslim cleric banned from Britain over extremist activities, including alleged links to al-Qa’ida, The Independent has learnt.

The cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed has been secretly filmed stating that decapitation of the enemies of Islam was permitted. Today, in comments met with outrage, he told The Independent that he could understand the feeling of rage that had motivated the attackers and that what they had done could be justified under certain interpretations of Islam.

Michael Adebolajo, a British-Muslim convert of Nigerian origin who gave a video interview with a meat cleaver in his bloodied hands while the body of 25-year-old Drummer Lee Rigby lay on the street behind him, declared that he was fighting for “Almighty Allah”.

Mr Bakri Muhammed, who now lives in Lebanon, told The Independent: “I saw the film and we could see that he [the suspect] was being very courageous.

“Under Islam this can be justified, he was not targeting civilians, he was taking on a military man in an operation. To people around here [in the Middle East] he is a hero for what he has done.”

It also emerged that the two suspected killers of Drummer Rigby were already known to MI5 and, almost certainly, to counter-terrorism officers in the police. One of the men was stopped from travelling to Somalia to join the Islamist militia Al-Shabaab last year.

In 2007, following the conviction of a group British Pakistanis who had plotted to kidnap and behead a British soldier, a secret recording emerged of Mr Bakri Muhammed saying: “When you meet [Westerners], slice their own necks. And when you make the blood spill all over, and the enemy becomes so tired, now start to take from them prisoners. Then free them or exchange them until the war is finished.

“Verily they remind the sunnah of removing the head of the enemy. They remind the sunnah of slaughtering the enemy. They remind the sunnah of how to strike the neck of the enemy. They removed the head of the enemy. Use the sword and remove the head of the enemy.”

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Dr. Chuckles said:

Ignoring academics and relying on Wikipedia is pretty foolish

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Quik said:

And we took sides with the Islamists.

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Are you noticing a pattern here or do I have to spell it out for you? Interventionism leads to unintended consequences.

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Dr. Chuckles said:

I was addressing your position

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RabidAlpaca said:

You wanted to avoid addressing my actual point, which was that over the past 40 years we have been regularing arming, training, and funding any group in the middle east that we think will be beneficial to us, and that this constant political meddling, invasions, and bomb dropping has been a large source of muslim distrust and disdain for Americans.

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Jack Hays said:

RA avoids academic learning. It's like kryptonite to him.:mrgreen:

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Quik said:

If by "assisting" you mean interfering in their affairs and destroying countries while propping up dictators then yes, that is exactly what causes hatred and animosity towards the United States. Stop "helping" Muslim countries with intervention, stop "helping" the economy with stimulus, just stop doing stupid ****, period. Think you can handle that?

Of course not, you are the US government. Interference and meddling is the only thing you know.

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Irony.exe is not downloading to my hard drive, could you send another format?

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You've seen the outrage, on 9/11 and the various other terrorist attacks against the United States. It's a response to our disastrous foreign policy.

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RabidAlpaca said:

If you think that trying to argue when the taliban came into existence is addressing this point:



Then you have serious comprehension issues.

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RabidAlpaca said:

If you think that trying to argue when the taliban came into existence is addressing this point:



Then you have serious comprehension issues.



This is coming from the guy who wouldn't even present his position? The guy that simply tells his opponents to read a book? Yeah, you're the pillar of modern academia.

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The Prof said:

sweden:



Five charts that help explain Sweden’s youth riots - WaPo

cbs' 60 minutes, last sunday i believe, did a piece about young male refugees from afghanistan in sweden and how tuff they're finding things in the land of the northern lights

sizable communities of teenage boys sleeping in tent cities in parks, eating out of garbage cans...

they regularly tell their folks back home that they're doing well, they're happy---they can't disappoint their moms and dads who sacrificed most of what they have just to get their boys out

i can't go back home, i will be killed, i will commit suicide before i go back home---is a sentiment commonly expressed

i am a hi school math teacher in northern california and in the last 10 years or so i have had a large number of muslim students, we have large emigre communities here in the bay area

they teach me so much about their homelands, pakistan, afghanistan, iran, lebanon, nigeria---i love to sound them out

i can't tell you how impressed i am with these young students (and their gorgeous families)---studious and responsible (but not overly so, they're still kids), fun loving and playful, able to take criticism, able to enjoy laughing at themselves, outgoing and friendly at the right time, quiet and respectful when such is called for, surrounded and accepted by friends of all races, fitting in successfully, healthy, they are generally some of my best students

but at a policy level...

absolutely, not all muslims are terrorists, far from it, but tragically the bad actors in the stories above all are

for the washington post to publish a 500 word story about racially charged riots and poor immigrant communities, 500 words and not one of them is "muslim..."

there is a politically correct denial of exactly what is underlying the sadness we are seeing so much of

there are reports out of sweden describing "vigilantes" patrolling the streets trying to protect their property, the kind of people who voted for marine le pen in france and the golden rain in greece...

the police are cracking down harder on these politically incorrect community organizers than they are on the gangs of youths who are setting fire to cars and churches

a decade of denial has brought us here, open street fighting between soccer clubs and skinheads on the one side and hopeless hordes of dispossessed and despairing islamic youth on the other

so much sadness, so much pain, cannot be addressed by burying ones head in sand

institutional refusal to see the obvious only exacerbates the excess

ten years after offering the open hand, the swedes, according to cbs, are now trying to kick the kids out

it was all very foreseeable, or should have been

unless clear sighted examination of the problems are begun and careful corrective actions are taken, the suffering will only multiply

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The Prof said:

sweden:



Five charts that help explain Sweden’s youth riots - WaPo

cbs' 60 minutes, last sunday i believe, did a piece about young male refugees from afghanistan in sweden and how tuff they're finding things in the land of the northern lights

sizable communities of teenage boys sleeping in tent cities in parks, eating out of garbage cans...

they regularly tell their folks back home that they're doing well, they're happy---they can't disappoint their moms and dads who sacrificed most of what they have just to get their boys out

i can't go back home, i will be killed, i will commit suicide before i go back home---is a sentiment commonly expressed

i am a hi school math teacher in northern california and in the last 10 years or so i have had a large number of muslim students, we have large emigre communities here in the bay area

they teach me so much about their homelands, pakistan, afghanistan, iran, lebanon, nigeria---i love to sound them out

i can't tell you how impressed i am with these young students (and their gorgeous families)---studious and responsible (but not overly so, they're still kids), fun loving and playful, able to take criticism, able to enjoy laughing at themselves, outgoing and friendly at the right time, quiet and respectful when such is called for, surrounded and accepted by friends of all races, fitting in successfully, healthy, they are generally some of my best students

but at a policy level...

absolutely, not all muslims are terrorists, far from it, but tragically the bad actors in the stories above all are

for the washington post to publish a 500 word story about racially charged riots and poor immigrant communities, 500 words and not one of them is "muslim..."

there is a politically correct denial of exactly what is underlying the sadness we are seeing so much of

there are reports out of sweden describing "vigilantes" patrolling the streets trying to protect their property, the kind of people who voted for marine le pen in france and the golden rain in greece...

the police are cracking down harder on these politically incorrect community organizers than they are on the gangs of youths who are setting fire to cars and churches

a decade of denial has brought us here, open street fighting between soccer clubs and skinheads on the one side and hopeless hordes of dispossessed and despairing islamic youth on the other

so much sadness, so much pain, cannot be addressed by burying ones head in sand

institutional refusal to see the obvious only exacerbates the excess

ten years after offering the open hand, the swedes, according to cbs, are now trying to kick the kids out

it was all very foreseeable, or should have been

unless clear sighted examination of the problems are begun and careful corrective actions are taken, the suffering will only multiply

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The Prof said:

sweden:

institutional refusal to see the obvious only exacerbates the excess

ten years after offering the open hand, the swedes, according to cbs, are now trying to kick the kids out

it was all very foreseeable, or should have been

unless clear sighted examination of the problems are begun and careful corrective actions are taken, the suffering will only multiply

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This is a generous country, one that opened its door to thousands of Iraqi refugees and immigrants after the war. But a few seem to have taken advantage of that kindness and are warping Sweden's otherwise tolerant identity.

Sweden's minister for integration, the Burundi-born Nyamko Sabuni, is a Muslim herself on her mother's side and she has been trying to warn about the rise of Islamist extremism there.

But her concerns have been largely ignored by the mainstream and her appointment to cabinet was, in fact, condemned by many Swedish Muslims.

Now, as a result of this week's senseless suicide, there will likely be even more talk about shutting the doors on newcomers and, specifically, to Muslims. Meanwhile, the Jews of Sweden will continue to leave.

But few will address the real problem — an Islamist political agenda in Europe that is claiming not just the lives of misguided extremists but whole towns like Malmo.

Malmo will have a Muslim majority in a few decades.
No fairytale

But this kindness has come at a cost to the Swedes.

Malmo was supposed to be a symbol of Sweden's multiculturalism. But it is in danger of turning into an Islamist ghetto, with a hard core of those who favour an Islamic state.

Perhaps one of the most troubling outcomes has been the often antagonistic and, at times, violent relationship with the town's Jewish population.

During last year's conflict in Gaza, for example, some Muslims here threw rocks and, it was reported, pipe bombs at those taking part in a demonstration in support of Israel. People were hurt and lines were drawn.

What's more, because so many in the left now think that anyone who criticizes Israel is an ally, Sweden's left-wing parties have come down on the side of outraged Muslims in this dispute.

Muslim refugees and the cost of Sweden's kindness - Canada - CBC News

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Quik said:

It's a response to our disastrous foreign policy.

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zimmer said:

Sweden's had problems with immigrants/refugees they took in from the Balkans War too.


I haven't been to Malmo in 20+ years, but was surprised upon reading about the city several years ago.


Hey Quik,
I guess the Swedes have a terrible foreign policy too???????????????

No Quik... the problem is a religion that breeds this crap.

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Deuce said:

Um, America isn't the only nation that has been screwing around in the Middle East and Africa for decades.

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zimmer said:

You seem to have been born after the end of the Cold War... and in that vein...
...Oh... yes the world would have been much better if we just let the Soviets roll the globe.

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Try sobriety.exe
Folks with your attitude are part of the problem. What you wrote is a picture perfect replication of what The Moron with the Machete stated.
Think about it.

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The man similar in thinking to The Moron with the Machete... strikes again.
All I can say is... what a world view.
This isn't meant to be funny... it's a serious question... are you a Muslim?

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Dr. Chuckles said:

right, to stifle the soviets

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actually most seem to think our mistake wasn't intervening enough, and that further influence peddling would have limited the fallout after the soviet withdraw and prevented the organizing of the taliban

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Dr. Chuckles said:

Quik said:

Our foreign policy is decidedly imperialist.{/quote]

This started when you claimed we had imperialist operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. I responded by asking where is the imperialism in either of those conflicts. You responded by saying we bombed them. I pointed out bombing people isn't imperialism. Your reply is to basically reassert your original premise that I asked you to prove originally.

So, again, you're all over the place

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Nope, we have an imperialist foreign policy. A good indication is the fact that WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE EAST and CENTRAL ASIA. It's not even in our HEMISPHERE. It's on the OPPOSITE side of the world. Our empire is large, global in reach. Pax Americana.

I never claimed they were unrelated. I was responding to you claiming that such fundamentalist groups are a product of the US overthrowing govt and propping up dictators. I pointed out no such thing was going on when the Taliban formed. Also, as ill conceived as our programs in Afghanistan were, I don't think they fit either of those descriptions. We basically funded and armed an organic and internal resistance movement that was fighting against a a revolutionary govt that was getting arms, funds, and direct troop assitence from the soviets, with the soviets later taking a more active role of direct military intervention

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Which resulted in a power vacuum which lead to the rise of the Taliban. Seriously, why aren't you able to connect the dots? Is there something wrong with you?

Why would we invade Europe after 9/11? How does this account for increased tension towards NK after 9/11?

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We bombed North Korea? I didn't know that!

We wouldn't invade Europe because they are not Muslim.

none of those involve a policy of targeting innocent muslims

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Sure they do, if you decided, completely voluntarily, to drop a bomb from a plane and you know that innocent civilians are going to die you are effectively targeting them.

And the only reason the original decision was made is because they are a Muslim nation. No other peoples would have been so unfortunate after 9/11. We were seeking Muslim blood and we got it, all over our hands. Men, women, and children who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 died needlessly so that our people could get our revenge on those evil Muslims who were unfortunate enough to be born in the wrong geographical location. How many soldiers lost their lives in these pointless wars? Or limbs? How many families ruined? It's tragic, just terrible.

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Dr. Chuckles said:

Right, but he specifically asked you about Swedish foreign policy. So the above is a bit of a non-answer

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