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Obama administration spied on Fox News reporter James Rosen: Report [W:85]

Hatuey said:
Obama administration spied on Fox News reporter James Rosen: Report



Heads on both sides should roll for this. Mr Kim's for leaking national security information unto the press and Rosen for conspiring to break the law.
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Rosen is being accused of trying to report the news. He did nothing more than what investigative journalists do every day, which is solicit information from officials. If he is guilty of a crime then so is every other reporter in Washington, DC.

Obama has already prosecuted more leakers under the 1917 Espionage Act than all other administrations put together.

Obama must get pointers on his relationship with the press from Putin.

The DOJ has gone completely out of control. I predict that a federal judge is going to slap them down good and hard.

What would really ruin Obama is if the press got so po'd with him that they just start reporting everything on him, just like they would a Republican president. He'd be toast in no time.
 
Moot said:
Here's the crime you are defending.....


"...The case began when Rosen reported on June 11, 2009, that U.S. intelligence believed North Korea might respond to tighter United Nations sanctions with new nuclear tests. Rosen reported that the information came from CIA sources inside the hermetic Stalinist state.

Investigators zeroed in on State Department arms expert Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, who was among a small group of intelligence officials to receive a top-secret report on the issue the same day that Rosen's piece ran online...."

Investigators looking into disclosures of sensitive information about North Korea got Rosen’s telephone records and a warrant for his personal emails but also used his State Department security badge to track his movements in and out of that building, the Post reported, citing court documents.

And just what did Rosen do? Here's Reyes in an affidavit to support his request for a search warrant:

“From the beginning of their relationship, the Reporter asked, solicited and encouraged Mr. Kim to disclose sensitive United States internal documents and intelligence information about the Foreign Country," the FBI agent wrote. "The Reporter did so by employing flattery and playing to Mr. Kim’s vanity and ego.”

"Much like an intelligence officer would run an clandestine intelligence source, the Reporter instructed Mr. Kim on a covert communications plan," Reyes said, explicitly comparing reportorial tactics to espionage...."



You're defending someone who knowingly commited espionage against the U.S., Bronson. How patriotic of you.
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I like how now the allegation has grown to Rosen committed espionage! Despite the fact that even DOJ has not alleged this. Bronson and his so called patriotism have no place in this discussion except as a personal attack.
 
Hatuey said:
Depends on what you're asking. Enticing somebody to break the law is considered conspiracy at the very least.
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Maybe but since we're not actually talking about someone enticing someone else to do anything, it seems another pointless point.
 
Dapper Andy said:
Maybe but since we're not actually talking about someone enticing someone else to do anything, it seems another pointless point.
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Actually, one source (can't find the link, should have bookmarked it) called this whole matter a flame broiled nothing burger that has an odd chiling effect on civil liberties and the rights of a free press being pressed by a DOJ that ignores admissions of leaks from the administration itself. It's all about "focus" obviously.
 
Hatuey said:
Obama administration spied on Fox News reporter James Rosen: Report

Heads on both sides should roll for this. Mr Kim's for leaking national security information unto the press and Rosen for conspiring to break the law.
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1. I would like to say that I appreciate that this guy's last name is "Rosen" just like "David Rosen", a reporter on the show Scandal who has a vaguely similar and equally compelling story line.

2. I need more information and more time to mull this case over to decide what I think about all this. The headline for the article clearly casts the Obama admin as the villain (and its author admits that he is a friend of Rosen's). At the same time, Rosen and Kim seem to have engaged in behavior that is problematic by, at least certain standards. There's also the fact that while I don't support the leaking of info that is detrimental to the United States without outweighing benefits, I otherwise have no problem with the media reporting info that it gets from inside sources.
 
Moot said:
Here's the crime you are defending.....


"...The case began when Rosen reported on June 11, 2009, that U.S. intelligence believed North Korea might respond to tighter United Nations sanctions with new nuclear tests. Rosen reported that the information came from CIA sources inside the hermetic Stalinist state.

Investigators zeroed in on State Department arms expert Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, who was among a small group of intelligence officials to receive a top-secret report on the issue the same day that Rosen's piece ran online...."

Investigators looking into disclosures of sensitive information about North Korea got Rosen’s telephone records and a warrant for his personal emails but also used his State Department security badge to track his movements in and out of that building, the Post reported, citing court documents.

And just what did Rosen do? Here's Reyes in an affidavit to support his request for a search warrant:

“From the beginning of their relationship, the Reporter asked, solicited and encouraged Mr. Kim to disclose sensitive United States internal documents and intelligence information about the Foreign Country," the FBI agent wrote. "The Reporter did so by employing flattery and playing to Mr. Kim’s vanity and ego.”

"Much like an intelligence officer would run an clandestine intelligence source, the Reporter instructed Mr. Kim on a covert communications plan," Reyes said, explicitly comparing reportorial tactics to espionage...."



You're defending someone who knowingly commited espionage against the U.S., Bronson. How patriotic of you.
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Are you kidding me right now?

Soliciting information is WHAT REPORTERS DO. You're now claiming Rosen committed espionage? Hilarious.

Your Government is out of control and you're defending that. Why?

DOJ's secret subpoena of AP phone records broader than initially revealed - Open Channel
 
Dapper Andy said:
Maybe but since we're not actually talking about someone enticing someone else to do anything, it seems another pointless point.
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Considering that's exactly how the article describes Kim's relationship with Rosen, it seems so.At no point did Rosen realize that asking Kim to release documents would mean that Kim would be breaking the law? Again, he told Kim to break the law.
 
The way this case will play out is simple. Kim will take the blame and Rosen's defenders will claim he had a right to entice and conspire to commit a crime. Which of course is not protected by the constitution in any way.
 
Hatuey said:
Considering that's exactly how the article describes Kim's relationship with Rosen, it seems so.At no point did Rosen realize that asking Kim to release documents would mean that Kim would be breaking the law? Again, he told Kim to break the law.
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Telling someone to break the law isn't illegal.

I don't know which article you have read but I haven't seen anything that mentions enticements of any kind.
 
Hatuey said:
Considering that's exactly how the article describes Kim's relationship with Rosen, it seems so.At no point did Rosen realize that asking Kim to release documents would mean that Kim would be breaking the law? Again, he told Kim to break the law.
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Nope, try again with the reading. It is alleged that Rosen told Kim to break the law, and you have just side stepped and ignored quite a lot that debunks your claims in response to your continued inability to differentiate allegation and facts. You would think that after more than a year of hacking and wiretapping and following Rosen and two other Fox employees around, we'd have something other than allegations from the DOJ. Hence the aforementioned flame broiled nothing burger.
 
Dapper Andy said:
Telling someone to break the law isn't illegal.
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It is if you stand to gain from them breaking the law. Rosen definitely stood to gain from Kim's breaking of the law.
 
Gie said:
I like how now the allegation has grown to Rosen committed espionage! Despite the fact that even DOJ has not alleged this. Bronson and his so called patriotism have no place in this discussion except as a personal attack.
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The FBI agent requesting the warrent compared Rosen's covert communication plan to Kim as espionage....


"...Much like an intelligence officer would run an clandestine intelligence source, the Reporter instructed Mr. Kim on a covert communications plan," Reyes said, explicitly comparing reportorial tactics to espionage...."


The FBI probably knows a lot more about espionage than you, Gie.
 
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clownboy said:
Nonsense, not how it works here. If you want that take it to some stalinist country.

I agree Kim should go down for leaking the info, part of his sworn position is to keep that material to himself and other authorized individuals. But Rosen? By intent and letter of the Constitution he was doing exactly his job.
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Do you feel the same about wikileaks and the kid they have locked up?

Not necessarily you, but it seems that a lot of folks who cried for assanges head on a plate are singing a different tune over the exact same behavior by somebody on "their" side.
 
Gie said:
Nope, try again with the reading. It is alleged that Rosen told Kim to break the law, and you have just side stepped and ignored quite a lot that debunks your claims in response to your continued inability to differentiate allegation and facts. You would think that after more than a year of hacking and wiretapping and following Rosen and two other Fox employees around, we'd have something other than allegations from the DOJ. Hence the aforementioned flame broiled nothing burger.
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Spare us, the media speaks in allegations, if we can only discuss things that aren't alleged, this site wouldn't exist. Now go and complain elsewhere. We're dealing with what is currently known.
 
Gie said:
Nope, try again with the reading. It is alleged that Rosen told Kim to break the law, and you have just side stepped and ignored quite a lot that debunks your claims in response to your continued inability to differentiate allegation and facts. You would think that after more than a year of hacking and wiretapping and following Rosen and two other Fox employees around, we'd have something other than allegations from the DOJ. Hence the aforementioned flame broiled nothing burger.
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Rosen's own emails prove that he was breaking the law.

Bye bye, Rosen.
 
Moot said:
The FBI agent requesting the warrent compared Rosen's covert communication plan to Kim as espionage....


"...Much like an intelligence officer would run an clandestine intelligence source, the Reporter instructed Mr. Kim on a covert communications plan," Reyes said, explicitly comparing reportorial tactics to espionage...."


The FBI probably knows more about espionage better than you, Gie.
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Talk about an empty bromide leading nowhere. So Hautey can't tell the difference between allegations and facts and you have managed to now up the allegation to the fact of espionage. This just gets more idiotic by the moment, and my how shocking that both of you just ignore the posted proof that the Obama administration has itself admitted and apologized for leaking classified information about the Isreali targets in Syria. That is quite a filter for facts you have there, try to get it fixed. Like I said, it is obviously a matter of focus.

Moot said:
Rosen's own emails prove that he was breaking the law.

Bye bye, Rosen.
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Bromide #2. I'd ask where you got that "fact" but I know ahead of time it came from out of your posterior.
 
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I guess the point is that, if what Rosen did was criminal then every Washington reporter is criminal because they all try to get sources to spill beans. Asking for information is not illegal. in the news gathering business, it is a requirement. The kid they have locked up did break the law. He was the bean spiller. Wikileaks broke no law.
 
Hatuey said:
Spare us, the media speaks in allegations, if we can only discuss things that aren't alleged, this site wouldn't exist. Now go and complain elsewhere. We're dealing with what is currently known.
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Spare us the dodge dancing around all the inconvenient facts that dispute and raise rational reasonable questions about your inability to discern allegations from facts in the article you posted. What is the well known saying? Reading is essential? Somehow you managed to imagine you did read something about someone somewhere telling you that you can only discuss things that aren't alleged and other gobbledygook. Amazing how you can't read what you actually posted and quite catch on, yet you imagine you read something that does not exist. What a convincing case you make. You sure you know what that case is?
 
Hatuey said:
It is if you stand to gain from them breaking the law. Rosen definitely stood to gain from Kim's breaking of the law.
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No it isn't.

I'm not sure if I have seen anything to indicate Rosen told anyone to break any laws anyway.
 
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What if...? said:
Do you feel the same about wikileaks and the kid they have locked up?

Not necessarily you, but it seems that a lot of folks who cried for assanges head on a plate are singing a different tune over the exact same behavior by somebody on "their" side.
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I don't know that that is true but I don't believe Julian Assange broke any U.S. laws, so I don't believe he should be charged with anything.
 
fmw said:
I guess the point is that, if what Rosen did was criminal then every Washington reporter is criminal because they all try to get sources to spill beans. Asking for information is not illegal. in the news gathering business, it is a requirement. The kid they have locked up did break the law. He was the bean spiller. Wikileaks broke no law.
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Asking for information isn't illegal, the lengths to which a person goes in order to gather that information can be illegal. Kim broke the law, and in Rossen's case, his current status of innocent, hasn't stopped Republicans like Peter T. King from calling for Assange's head. Actually... here are Republicans on this issue:

Republicans prioritise WikiLeaks investigation | Media | The Guardian

The Republicans plan to hold a congressional inquiry into WikiLeaks and its founder, Julian Assange, following the organisation's release of thousands of classified US diplomatic cables.

The party, which will wrest control of house committees from the Democrats tomorrow, has included WikiLeaks in a list of priorities for investigation.

The move is partly political, aimed at the attorney general, Eric Holder, who the Republicans claim has been too slow and too weak in reacting to the leaks.
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WikiLeaks: Sarah Palin demands Julian Assange hunted down like Al Qaeda terrorist | Mail Online

Sarah Palin has demanded that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is hunted down like Osama bin Laden.

In an extraordinary outburst on Facebook, the former Alaska governor attacked the White House for 'incompetent handling of this whole fiasco.'

First and foremost, what steps were taken to stop Wikileaks director Julian Assange from distributing this highly sensitive classified material especially after he had already published material not once but twice in the previous months?.' she wrote.
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Julian Assange cast as common enemy as US left and right unite | Media | The Guardian

The most extreme attacks have come from prominent Republicans including Sarah Palin, who has likened Assange to an al-Qaida operative; Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate, who called him a "hi-tech terrorist"; and Newt Gingrich, who called him an information terrorist and said he should be arrested as an "enemy combatant" .

Assange was also attacked by leading Democrats such as Dianne Feinstein, who said he should be charged under the US espionage act, and John Kerry, who has called for the law to be changed to allow a prosecution of the WikiLeaks website.

Gabriel Schoenfeld, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington and author of Necessary Secrets, said the cross-party baying put the Obama administration in a difficult place. "There is a huge amount of pressure on them to do something about WikiLeaks."

This week Joe Lieberman, the independent senator who has long been an opponent of WikiLeaks, widened the net when he accused the New York Times of an "act of bad citizenship" by publishing versions of the US embassy cables and called on the justice department to hold a "very intensive inquiry" into whether the paper had committed a crime.
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It seems, a year ago, this was a crime, and hey - now, it's "freedom of the press" - by the way: here is what I posted on Assange:

Hatuey said:
I think what most people calling him an asshole haven't realized is that Assange's work has brought attention to issues which the world wouldn't care about. He's revealed the killings carried out by the U.S. funded governments. Most people on the left didn't complain when he released information on the cult of scientology and the names of members in the NBP. Most right wing people on this forum didn't really complain when he released those e-mails between the climatologists or the nuclear accident in Iran. Are we all supposed to complain because he's released something some people may disagree with? This man should be held up as a patriot in the fight against global censorship.
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Here are the right wing responses:

digsbe said:
I think he's a very arrogant man that cares more about WikiLeaks than he does about our troops and innocent lives. I strongly disprove of his actions.
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jamesrage said:
He is no different than someone who knowingly buys stolen property. So he is just as guilty as the traitors who release classified info to him. Since he is not an American he obviously can't be a traitor to our country but if he is ever caught he should be tried with something.
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RightinNYC said:
He's an egotistical media hound who is doing everything he can to undermine the US.
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apdst said:
Assange has no other motive, than to undermine the United States. He's admitted that.

It's sickneing that anyone would defend this bastard.
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zimmer said:
Prick. ********er. Idiot.
I hope he lives his life in fear.

.
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ReverendHellh0und said:
I think Assange is a head that is in need of a bullet. :shrug:
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So if Assange was guilty, why isn't Rosen? Citizenship?
 
Hatuey said:
Asking for information isn't illegal, the lengths to which a person goes in order to gather that information can be illegal. Kim broke the law, and in Rossen's case, his current status of innocent, hasn't stopped Republicans like Peter T. King from calling for Assange's head. Actually... here are Republicans on this issue:

Republicans prioritise WikiLeaks investigation | Media | The Guardian



WikiLeaks: Sarah Palin demands Julian Assange hunted down like Al Qaeda terrorist | Mail Online



Julian Assange cast as common enemy as US left and right unite | Media | The Guardian



It seems, a year ago, this was a crime, and hey - now, it's "freedom of the press" - by the way: here is what I posted on Assange:



Here are the right wing responses:















So if Assange was guilty, why isn't Rosen? Citizenship?
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You just have to laugh when you see these threads where the author can't grasp his own posted subject matter, has no intelligent replies to any contradictory facts or rebuttals and then proceeds to steer his own thread into an "republican priorities + Julian Assange" derailment.:applaud
 
Gie said:
You just have to laugh when you see these threads where the author can't grasp his own posted subject matter, has no intelligent replies to any contradictory facts or rebuttals and then proceeds to steer his own thread into an "republican priorities + Julian Assange" derailment.:applaud
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It's not a derailment to compare similar cases.
 
Gie said:
Talk about an empty bromide leading nowhere. So Hautey can't tell the difference between allegations and facts and you have managed to now up the allegation to the fact of espionage. This just gets more idiotic by the moment, and my how shocking that both of you just ignore the posted proof that the Obama administration has itself admitted and apologized for leaking classified information about the Isreali targets in Syria. That is quite a filter for facts you have there, try to get it fixed. Like I said, it is obviously a matter of focus.


Bromide #2. I'd ask where you got that "fact" but I know ahead of time it came from out of your posterior.
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It's only alledged in the article because it hasn't gone to trial, yet. Yes, in this country someone is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. So you might want to remember that in your alledged attacks against the Obama administration. However, the factual evidence of covert planning and solicitation to commit a crime in the emails does appear to be a pretty solid case against Rosen in spite of your ridiculous, hyperbolic temper tantrums.
 
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