Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthood

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Strucky said:

This country was founded on the freedom of religion and has been a corner stone on which this country was built....To deny that now pretty much says the separation of church and state no longer applies and the government is free to impose it's will on what any religion can and cannot believe in.

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Exactly. So I should be exempt from speed limits. Who are you to tell me what I can't believe in?

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

It doesn't allow you to dodge anyaw you feel like. However, laws that force people to violate their religious convictions shouldn't be passed.

You can post all the rediculously stupid examples you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

It's a right to keep and bear arms. Should there be a law forcing you to buy a gun for your employees, when you are an anti-gunner? Of course not!

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What makes health insurance not a ridiculous example, but speed limits ridiculous? If I don't vaccinate my kids, it can place other children in danger. So they can't attend public school without those vaccinations, by law. If my religion says I shouldn't vaccinate my kids, can they go to that school anyway?

Where's your line? At which point does my religious freedom fail to override the law? Human sacrifice?

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

According to the religious convictions of some folks, yes it does.

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Those convictions are then stupid. Preventing a pregnancy actually avoids an abortion. That's so ridiculously basic, it's not surprising you're actually hiding behind it.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Hatuey said:

Those convictions are then stupid. Preventing a pregnancy actually avoids an abortion.

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It doesn't take away from the fact that people still have the right to those beliefs and the government can't do a damn thing about it.

That's so ridiculously basic, it's not surprising you're actually hiding behind it.

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What's the point of this comment?

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Deuce said:

What makes health insurance not a ridiculous example, but speed limits ridiculous? If I don't vaccinate my kids, it can place other children in danger. So they can't attend public school without those vaccinations, by law. If my religion says I shouldn't vaccinate my kids, can they go to that school anyway?

Where's your line? At which point does my religious freedom fail to override the law? Human sacrifice?

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You're still using rediculous examples. I'm not sure if it's shear ignorance, or stubborness.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

It doesn't take away from the fact that people still have the right to those beliefs and the government can't do a damn thing about it.

What's the point of this comment?

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Connect the dots. And actually, the government can deny people certain benefits etc, on the basis of beliefs. There is tons of precedent for government fining, removing tax-exemption and other legal action due to religious beliefs that are considered to be dangerous. Just look at the FLDS.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Hatuey said:

Connect the dots.

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No, be a man and tell me what you mean.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

No, be a man and tell me what you mean.

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Be a man? Lol - okay, I mean that you're a contrarian who uses "other people" to defend his own ridiculous beliefs. You know you'll be ridiculed for having them yourself, so you pretend it's "other people" who have them. In essence, you're an intellectual coward without the intestinal fortitude to defend his own beliefs in the first person and relying always on the 3rd. :shrug:

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Hatuey said:

Be a man? Lol - okay, I mean that you're a contrarian who uses "other people" to defend his own ridiculous beliefs. :shrug:

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What beliefs are you referring to?

Are you saying that I'm pro-life, anti-birth control? If you are, you couldn't be more wrong. I'm pro-choice, although I wouldn't choose abortion. I'm all for birth control.

I'm only defending the rights of my fellow citizens. One doesn't have to agree with a person's beliefs to defend their right to have those beliefs and that's where Libbos get it wrong time and again.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

So basically the libs think that denying Pro-life groups the status as pro-choice groups is okay. Maybe that's why you voted for Obama, cause you knew he was that kind of guy.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

What beliefs are you referring to?

Are you saying that I'm pro-life, anti-birth control? If you are, you couldn't be more wrong. I'm pro-choice, although I wouldn't choose abortion. I'm all for birth control.

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4 pages of you defending pro-lifers says different.

I'm only defending the rights of my fellow citizens. One doesn't have to agree with a person's beliefs to defend their right to have those beliefs and that's where Libbos get it wrong time and again.

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What rights? You don't have the right to pick and choose what religious beliefs to force unto your employees anymore than you have a right to tell them what to eat.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Hatuey said:

4 pages of you defending pro-lifers says different.

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I'm simply defending their right to be pro-lifers.

What rights? You don't have the right to pick and choose what religious beliefs to force unto your employees anymore than you have a right to tell them what to eat.

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A Muslim, who owns a business has the right to ban pork from being served in the company cafeteria, or ban pork skins from being sold in the vending machines. Yes?

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

American said:

So basically the libs think that denying Pro-life groups the status as pro-choice groups is okay. Maybe that's why you voted for Obama, cause you knew he was that kind of guy.

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Libbos only believe in people being able to enjoy those civil rights that they agree with and crap on all our other rights. Liberalism has tyranny written all over it.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Deuce said:

Exactly. So I should be exempt from speed limits. Who are you to tell me what I can't believe in?

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You are obviously nothing more than a troll,nothing good will come by speaking to you about basic freedoms.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

I'm simply defending their right to be pro-lifers.

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You don't have a right to be anti-choice AND force it upon your employees. The free exercise of religion is restricted to the individual.

A Muslim, who owns a business has the right to ban pork from being served in the company cafeteria, or ban pork skins from being sold in the vending machines. Yes?

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I don't know of any recognized religion, ideology or creed where it's compulsory to eat any animal. On the other hand, some women must take birth control for medical reasons such as regulating periods, avoid pregnancies (the ones in steady relationships), reduce cramps etc. So the examples aren't remotely the same.

If the employer was telling employees he won't provide X while providing viable alternatives, then yes he would be allowed as it wouldn't cause undue hardship of any kind. In the same way, a Muslim employer can't force his employees to fast or eat a certain times. But that's not applicable as the anti-choice side isn't providing any real viable alternatives are they?

And even if they did, what other religious beliefs should we expect the pro-lifers to enforce on employees with impunity? Slavery? Dietary restrictions? When to have sex?

I asked you twice to tell us where to draw the line on the free exercise of religion and simple workplace tyranny. Which religious beliefs are to be picked and chosen for the rest of us to follow? If I work at a Muslim place, I should be forced to fast even though it has no relevance to my job? If I work at a Hindu owned place, I can't eat beef because they hold it sacred? Where do we draw the lines on individuals exercising their freedom of religion and forcing others to exercise their religion?

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Hatuey said:

You don't have a right to be anti-choice AND force it upon your employees. The free exercise of religion is restricted to the individual.



I don't know of any recognized religion, ideology or creed where it's compulsory to eat any animal. On the other hand, some women must take birth control for medical reasons such as regulating periods, avoid pregnancies (the ones in steady relationships), reduce cramps etc. So the examples aren't remotely the same.

If the employer was telling employees he won't provide X while providing viable alternatives, then yes he would be allowed as it wouldn't cause undue hardship of any kind. In the same way, a Muslim employer can't force his employees to fast or eat a certain times. But that's not applicable as the anti-choice side isn't providing any real viable alternatives are they?

And even if they did, what other religious beliefs should we expect the pro-lifers to enforce on employees with impunity? Slavery? Dietary restrictions? When to have sex?

I asked you twice to tell us where to draw the line on the free exercise of religion and simple workplace tyranny. Which religious beliefs are to be picked and chosen for the rest of us to follow? If I work at a Muslim place, I should be forced to fast even though it has no relevance to my job? If I work at a Hindu owned place, I can't eat beef because they hold it sacred? Where do we draw the lines on individuals exercising their freedom of religion and forcing others to exercise their religion?

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There's no scenario where a woman has to take birth control to avoid dieing. Birth control isn't so expensive that she can't go buy it outside her insurance plan. And, any woman that doesn't like the fact that her employer has rights and doesn't want to buy her birth control for her can go find another job where they do buy her birtch control and we'll that mean ol' free market take care the situation.

And even if they did, what other religious beliefs should we expect the pro-lifers to enforce on employees with impunity? Slavery? Dietary restrictions? When to have sex?

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More assinine examples?

By your logic, the government can violate anyone's rights, as long as they have a good reason. They could put people into slavery, for the good of the country, according to you. I know some people they could start with

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

You're still using rediculous examples. I'm not sure if it's shear ignorance, or stubborness.

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And you're dodging the question. Tell me exactly where you place the line.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

There's no scenario where a woman has to take birth control to avoid dieing. Birth control isn't so expensive that she can't go buy it outside her insurance plan. And, any woman that doesn't like the fact that her employer has rights and doesn't want to buy her birth control for her can go find another job where they do buy her birtch control and we'll that mean ol' free market take care the situation.



More assinine examples?

By your logic, the government can violate anyone's rights, as long as they have a good reason. They could put people into slavery, for the good of the country, according to you. I know some people they could start with

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Ovarian cysts can become cancerous.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Deuce said:

Ovarian cysts can become cancerous.

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Birth control cures cancer?

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

Deuce said:

And you're dodging the question. Tell me exactly where you place the line.

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I've already explained it to you. I can't help that you're too busy dreaming up rediculous scenarios to notice.

Re: Report: IRS denied tax-exempt status to pro-lifers on behalf of Planned Parenthoo

apdst said:

Birth control cures cancer?

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Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you simply this ignorant?

For some women, birth control pills control the conditions that lead to cancer. IN other words, the pills don't cure cancer, they reduce the chances of suffering from cancer.